Science Proves Creation

[HARK!]

Selective reading for the win. How about this, from that article?

"The word "observable" is key; the sphere limits what scientists can see but not what is there."

I missed this juicy little morsel from the article too:

"since the universe has a finite age,"

 

[Skreeper]

I missed this juicy little morsel from the article too:

"since the universe has a finite age,"

The observable universe we live in has a finite age. But what about the cosmos which may include multiple universes?

 

[Shemjaza]

I missed this juicy little morsel from the article too:

"since the universe has a finite age,"

I think you should clarify where you agree with and part from science.

Do you accept the descriptions and age of the common ideas about the Big Bang?
Do you now accept time and space dilation from gravity or relative velocity?
How about quantum uncertainty at very small scales?
Radioactive decay?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Something (plasma) is expanding into the absence of something. (space)



I've seen no evidence that anything but space exists outside of the limits of the Universe.



How would this conflict with my assertion?

Can you prove that dark matter/energy make up any part of the Universe; let alone, even exist?



That statement was made in the context of a refutation to the hypothetical that the Universe is somehow encapsulated and eternal. If EMR travels to any limited distance, with an unlimited amount of travel time; then if it began its' travel an unlimited amount of time ago; then it would have reached its' limits, an unlimited amount of time ago.

I gather from this post that you don't understand 2 things:
1. space isn't literally nothing, it has specific properties.
2. space itself is expanding along with the rest of the universe. The universe isn't expanding into an infinite expanse of space, the space is a part of the universe.

 

[DogmaHunter]

So in other words, as far as you are concerned, saying that the universe was created at some point, leaves the door wide open as to what kind of event that creation was?

As in: it need not be some natural "universe creation" process and might just as well have been some personal/intelligent entity.

In that case, I agree.

I'm happy to see that you are leaving no stones unturned!

Sure.

Off course, if you would want to propose such an entity, you're gonna have to have a good reason.

 

[HARK!]

I gather from this post that you don't understand 2 things:
1. space isn't literally nothing, it has specific properties.
2. space itself is expanding along with the rest of the universe. The universe isn't expanding into an infinite expanse of space, the space is a part of the universe.

If this is so; then I would ask you to define the abstract concept of space, without the benefit of the concrete, which is dimensionally quantifiable

 

[Tinker Grey]

If this is so; then I would ask you to define the abstract concept of space, without the benefit of the concrete, which is dimensionally quantifiable

PsychoSarah's last activity was 10 months ago. Why did you resurrect this thread?

 

[HARK!]

PsychoSarah's last activity was 10 months ago. Why did you resurrect this thread?

I've been away for a while. When I saw this this thread, How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?. ; I remembered my thread and provided a link to it. While I was here; I decided to do a little reading. Good to be back.

 

[Shemjaza]

I've been away for a while. When I saw this this thread, How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?. ; I remembered my thread and provided a link to it. While I was here; I decided to do a little reading. Good to be back.

Before diving back in, I think you should spend some time learning about cosmology to properly respond to the points people have raised about your thread here.

(I'll repeat my earlier post, because it is relevant).
I think you should clarify where you agree with and part from science.

Do you accept the descriptions and age of the common ideas about the Big Bang?
Do you now accept time and space dilation from gravity or relative velocity?
How about quantum uncertainty at very small scales?
Radioactive decay?

 

[HARK!]

Before diving back in, I think you should spend some time learning about cosmology to properly respond to the points people have raised about your thread here.

Before diving back in, I think that you should construct your thoughts in order to offer something of substance. If you are unable to bring a logical argument to the table; please find contentment in being a passive observer.

 

[Shemjaza]

Before diving back in, I think that you should construct your thoughts in order to offer something of substance. If you are unable to bring a logical argument to the table; please find contentment in being a passive observer.

Trite and empty.

Feel free to actually reply to the substance of the comments from myself and others who you have arrogantly ignored over the course of this thread.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If all of the matter and energy in the universe infinitely approaches absolute zero, its' energy reduced to unreverable heat; then it could not have been anywher near its' current form and concentrtion for eternity. If the universe, as it can even be perceived, could not have existed eternally; then the only logical conclusion is that it was created. If anything has not preexisted eternity; it was created.

Most scientists believe the universe had a cause. How do you justify your leap to a god as that cause?

 

[HARK!]

Most scientists believe the universe had a cause. How do you justify your leap to a god as that cause?

When did I mention god as that cause? It appears that you are the one who made this leap; but at this time I see no need for your hypothesis to be challenged. Best wishes in your research

 

[Ken-1122]

When did I mention god as that cause? It appears that you are the one who made this leap; but at this I see no need for your hypothesis to be challenged. Best wishes in your research

Most of the Creationist arguments I’ve seen seems that they insist on a valid scientific argument that does not include magic, but they gladly incorporate magic when making their argument.

 

[Ken-1122]

Most scientists believe the universe had a cause.

Who are these scientists who believe the Universe had a cause?

 

[Ken-1122]

The observable universe we live in has a finite age. But what about the cosmos which may include multiple universes?

If the Universe is by definition; all that exist, how could there be multiple Universes?
Universe - Wikipedia

 

[Speedwell]

If the Universe is by definition; all that exist, how could there be multiple Universes?
Universe - Wikipedia

Good question. Generally, the "universe" is said to be the connected space-time manifold in which we find ourselves. We don't know if there are any others. If there are, they all fall under the collective term "multiverse." As to what material reality existed "before" the Big Bang, we don't know that either, but it doesn't rule out the possibility that there was something.

 

[Ken-1122]

Good question. Generally, the "universe" is said to be the connected space-time manifold in which we find ourselves. We don't know if there are any others.

By definition, there cannot be any others. Anything else that exist would still be a part of the Universe.

 

[Tinker Grey]

By definition, there cannot be any others. Anything else that exist would still be a part of the Universe.

Pedantically, yes.

Prior to modern maths and physics discoveries, as @Speedwell mentioned, this space-time manifold is all we conceived of when we said "universe". With the advent of new information it is the convention to consider that which we can perceive (which is the same prior to modern math) as the universe and that which is hypothetical as the multiverse or metaverse or some other term.

I wouldn't get hung up on it.

 

[Speedwell]

By definition, there cannot be any others. Anything else that exist would still be a part of the Universe.

But we wouldn't know if it had a beginning or not. We don't even know if this universe had a beginning.