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Do you think that the story of Adam and Eve literally happened?

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joshua 1 9

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Is there any reason to expect that present day scientific standards applied in Eden ?
Yes there is. Eden is a bio diverse eco system. One where we find domesticated plants and animals. Science and Botany tells us a lot about this. Science is very interested in how farming spread from the Middle East to Europe and they have put a lot of study into this. Ancient History and Science can tell us a lot about what we read in Genesis.
 
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joshua 1 9

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put the blood on the door lintels, it wasn't a random command but a foreshadowing of Jesus and what he would do
Jesus is the Door. If you go back to the ancient Hebrew letter D dalet means door. Jesus is the gate keeper, He decides who can enter in through the door into the tent or dwelling. The Hebrew letters used to write the Torah are symbols that have infinite meaning. We could go on forever just to study the meaning we find in the letters themselves.
 

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coffee4u

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No, it couldn't be. Here's a good article on the subject: Cover Story: Historical Adam

So glad we have internet articles to prove that Adam and Eve weren't real over what was that other book? Oh yeah, the Bible.

My question back to you is, why couldn't he be? And don't point to some article that needs logging in or subscription to continue reading.

Since the Bible teaches that Adam was literal and does not in any place indorse or even suggest Dawinsim evolution then Collins as much as he might say he is an evangelical, isn't one.

Evangelical belief, Tenet number 1.
1. Bible. We believe that the Bible is the Word of God; without error as originally written. Its content has been preserved by Him, and is the final authority in all matters of doctrine and faith-above all human authority.

That includes Collins.
 
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joshua 1 9

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So it is impossible to have a global flood
Noah's flood is a shadow and type of the global flood that took place at the time of Pangea. Today they use the word paradigm. There have actually been 6 extinctions where 90% of the worlds population went extinct. The most recent was around 12,990 years ago an event MARKED by the nano diamond comet. This is when the saber tooth tiger and wholly mammoths went extinct. This is when the age or era that we now live in - began.
 
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coffee4u

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We have to prioritize how we understand the world around us. Beginning with physically real evidence, then intellectual extrapolation afterwards. Not in a reverse order.

The only evidence mankind has is the world as it is now, the world that was created isn't here to be tested it was destroyed by a worldwide flood. The flood included not only mud and water but the destruction of the water vapour canopy leading to space radiation reaching the earth and volcanic eruptions which created electric activity across the earth's crust. This is one reason God made sure to tell us what happened in the Bible, so that we would not be deceived by appearances.

We have fossils suggesting descent with modification

If God had used evolution scripture would be in harmony with it, it is not.
How about God made creatures, they have similarities.
Just because animals are similar does not mean they had to descend from each other. That is mankind's inspiration of the evidence because that is what he wants to believe.

Man didn't create these features that depict an ancient earth
Again that's an assumption about the evidence. Evidence doesn't come with labels. Scientists devised tests and they decided this is what the evidence shows. But they are not infallible and they weren't there. You put a lot of faith into those tests. If you want to talk about evidence for an old earth, there is also evidence showing a young earth. Evidence for a Young Earth
It doesn't matter. Either the Bible is true or it isn't. God isn't going to give you the truth about the death and resurrection of Christ only to give you a bunch of baloney over the creation of the world. Apart from the space radiation and electric activity could the earth not have sat awhile before God took to creating on it? Why do you believe so firmly in evolution when it disagrees with the Bible?
 
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joshua 1 9

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the world that was created isn't here to be tested

There are air bubbles in the ice core sample so we can study the atmosphere for the last 1.5 million years. Pangaea was destroyed 175 million years ago so we do not know for sure what the atmosphere was at the time. Crocodiles and Turtles are still around though and they require very wet conditions.

If God had used evolution scripture would be in harmony with it, it is not.
Evolution and the Bible are both all about common ancestor. Eden was all about the domestication of plants and animals. They have done a lot of research to understand how farming spread to Europe from the Middle East.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Your evidence shows that: "Niagara Falls was 10,000 years old". The age or era we live in began 12990 years ago at the end of the last ice age when there was a 90% extinction of what was here before. The Great lakes and it tributaries were somewhat changed by the Ice age but they were very much here before that ice age began. When they were working on the bridge and the expressway they uncovered layers of conglomerate rock that was formed before the ice age began. We can see where the old river beds were and where the new river beds are. The same is true in Eden. We can tell where Eden was when we study the old dried up river beds that can be photographed with the google space satellites. Right now Eden is under the Persian Gulf. It is still flooded.
 
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BroRoyVa79

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We can tell where Eden was when we study the old dried up river beds that can be photographed with the google space satellites. Right now Eden is under the Persian Gulf. It is still flooded.

Everything you're looking at is Post-Flood.

Plus, Paradise is no longer in this realm. See Revelation 22.
 
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joshua 1 9

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There was no first Adam but there was a last Adam?
Adam was the first. We have the whole genealogy from Adam to Jesus. The two most important people are Abraham & David. We are told that Adam gave 70 years of his life to David. Jesus rules on the throne of David. "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” (Genesis 3:15) Jesus is the seed or the descendant of Adam & Eve.
 
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lismore

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Adam was the first. We have the whole genealogy from Adam to Jesus. The two most important people are Abraham & David. We are told that Adam gave 70 years of his life to David. Jesus rules on the throne of David. "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” (Genesis 3:15) Jesus is the seed or the descendant of Adam & Eve.

Agreed. Given that, I find the notion that a Christian would believe Adam and Eve did not exist to be preposterous. God Bless You :)
 
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Brightmoon

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Agreed. Given that, I find the notion that a Christian would believe Adam and Eve did not exist to be preposterous. God Bless You :)
. The biological basis is that most of us got our mitochondria from a woman or her close relatives . But that other genetic material like our chromosomes came from other female or male ancestors . Mitochondrial Eve is only one maternal ancestor of several for living humans . Mitochondrial Eve who lived much more than 6000 years ago is not the biblical Eve .
 
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Jadis40

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I continue to be bewildered by Christians who choose fallible man's views and muses about origins over God's witness testimony about how He did things.

The events of the Bible didn't take place in a vacuum. There was a whole lot more going on in the world at that time, and the Bible is just one group of people's attempt at trying to explain things. Case in point, the story of a flood has its origins in the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer which predates the writing of Genesis. Also, Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees. Basically, he was a Sumerian. Ur was in modern day Iraq, in the cradle of civilization, and it was one of many. There was also Egypt, China, and the Indus valley civilization. There are multiple fields of study that show that this earth is a lot older than 6,000 years, that there was no global flood in 2348 BC, and that there are traces of both Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA in modern human DNA.

I go where the evidence leads, and that leads to the truth that this planet is a lot older than what YECs are saying.

What people in the YEC/global flood camp do is try to ramrod 4.6 billion years of earth's history into a mere 6,000 years, and it's no wonder that people don't take it seriously.
 
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BroRoyVa79

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The events of the Bible didn't take place in a vacuum. There was a whole lot more going on in the world at that time, and the Bible is just one group of people's attempt at trying to explain things.

Yes, there was a lot going on, but the Bible makes a claim that God started everything and after that stuff got warped. It's either true or it's not in this claim. I believe all evidence point to it being true over all the other claims. Including modern man's musings about origins, history, etc. to the contrary.

Case in point, the story of a flood has its origins in the Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumer which predates the writing of Genesis.

This is a common misconception. While there are some similarities, emphasis on the some, there are astronomical differences. Also, this assumes that what was written down first came first. Big assumption. While clay tablets are indeed dated older according to man's dating methods, there's no guarantee the things you're bringing up came first. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Case in point, look into the Toledoth theory that the structure of Genesis is written so that it matches up with the styles of writing in Mesopotamia clay tablets thus some theorize that Genesis may have been compiled from clay tablets possibly passed from Adam to Noah to Moses that we no longer accessible to today or haven't been discovered yet.

Even without that physical evidence, God's testimony from Genesis indicates He started all things and then things from there, probably post Tower of Babel, maybe sooner, got skewed. Speaking of which, off the top of my head, there is a good book done by a Christian historian who maps the culture corruption from Babel by Bill Cooper: Authenticity of the Book of Genesis (which I've mostly read) and additionally, After the Flood (which I've yet to read). In the latter he primarily traces culture in Europe.

Also, Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees. Basically, he was a Sumerian. Ur was in modern day Iraq, in the cradle of civilization, and it was one of many. There was also Egypt, China, and the Indus valley civilization.

Ok.

There are multiple fields of study that show that this earth is a lot older than 6,000 years, that there was no global flood in 2348 BC, and that there are traces of both Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA in modern human DNA.

This is where we really disagree and start speaking a different language. Sure, if you accept everything that comes out of current scientific consensus, then sure, you're going to accept an old age of the Earth. I do not. Those musing in science have been wrong before. For instance, the Geocentric model worked at once, and everyone agreed with it until they were shown how wrong they were.

I can go on here about my views of the agenda for those who espoused Old Ages for Earth and for the overwhelming majority who still do. But won't. So, yes, it still baffles me that Christians will favor origin theories heavily espoused by anti-Biblical characters over the Bible's own testimony and in doing so, they go out to seek reasons to diminish the Bible's authority on certain subjects, mainly Genesis.

I go where the evidence leads, and that leads to the truth that this planet is a lot older than what YECs are saying.

What people in the YEC/global flood camp do is try to ramrod 4.6 billion years of earth's history into a mere 6,000 years, and it's no wonder that people don't take it seriously.

Again, speaking different languages here. You think YEC are forcing 4.6 billion years of Earth history into 6,000 years? It makes me suspicious that you don't even look at what they say unlike we do when we look at what Old Earthers say.

They give reasons to believe that the age is young through experimentation, research, etc. Same thing that Old Earthers lean on from a supposedly unbiased scientific community hijacked by philosophical naturalism. Biblical Creationists only start from the Bible rather than human knowledge. And I find their evidence more reasonable, especially when I read anything in scientific journals and can point out the flaws in reasoning, assumptions, etc. that lead to hasty conclusions due to their fervor to hold on to their theories.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But so long as they have a hold on science, they dupe everyone into believing what they say (that hasn't been observed) is true and everyone takes it on faith.
 
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Job 33:6

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"You think YEC are forcing 4.6 billion years of Earth history into 6,000 years? It makes me suspicious that you don't even look at what they say unlike we do when we look at what Old Earthers say."

@BroRoyVa79

What do young earthers say about the geology of New York or of the green River formation?

Old Earth Geology

Every time I read their articles, I find them to contradict themselves and some even outright disagree with others.

Are you capable of technically describing their views?

Of course not, why bother even asking. And yet you claim that people aren't actually examining their words?

Let us examine their words here and now, if you believe them to be true.
 
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