The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[timothyu]

So what works must these grace only people do to earn salvation? Are these good deed type works like caring for the poor, or are these church sacrament based works, like attending confession and performing penance? Or is it both? I find it hard to believe that anyone has managed to just stop sinning .

It more a matter of repentance/change. A change in the way of thi9nking. Is it better living a life of self interest seeking gain often at the expe3nse of others? Or is it better to love all as self and be of service to others and you would hope for yourself in times of need?

 

[Beanieboy]

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism …
are all called antinomianism! This is the notion that a one-time
justification saves … apart from sanctification. But, this is an
incomplete understanding of God’s wonderful free gift of grace!

I'm unclear what you are saying, as I am not familiar with the concept. It is my understand that we are saved though grace, and as a result, produce good fruit.
However, while obedience, etc. is necessary, it doesn't earn you your way into heaven.
It's the fruit the Spirit is producing within you. At some point, if your neighbor asks you for your shirt, you offer your coat without even thinking about it, because you have the love of God within you, rather than do it out of obedience and fear to God, like an obligation.

So, forgive me, but I'm a bit confused.

God offers grace, and his love. Neither are earned, and when you accept them, it is his grace and love that in turn produces the fruit within you. Christ said that all of the law is fulfilled by loving God with your whole heart, soul and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself.

And my understanding of "fear of God" does not mean afraid of, but rather, revere.
Otherwise: "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." Meaning, God drives himself out, and the one who fears is not make in perfect love.

There are at least 10 NT verses for each of the following truths

Believers prove they have true saving faith:
1 -- by their obedience
2 -- by practicing righteousness
3 -- by living holy lives
4 -- by having a healthy fear of God
5 -- by repenting of their occasional sins
6 –- by overcoming sin, the world, Satan, persecution
7 –- by enduring in the faith to the end of their lives

Re: #4 … If people are believing and trusting in grace-only, cheap-grace,
hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc., HOW can they be fearing God?

So, all of these verses PROVE the road to eternal life is indeed narrow,
and believers are responsible for playing their part in their salvation!

Or, shall we view these verses as merely bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

Initially, through His grace, God gives to new believers:
Jesus’ righteousness, redemption, reconciliation, etc. and salvation.
However, this grace/salvation is NOT guaranteed to last forever!
Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).
And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Some believers are “of those who draw back to perdition” (Hebrews 10:39).

And there are many more warning verses.

So, your church warns the congregation that their salvation may be lost, they may have disqualified themselves without even knowing it, because of the salvation of Christ has that much fine print about a number of possible things that may void the contract if not fulfilled by the believer, implying that God saves us through grace, but we continue to be in that grace by obedience and earning it?

Or is this entire OP one of the strange trends I've seen recently of Christians yelling at one another that they aren't forgiven? Example: I watched a Youtube channel with Dorre Love preaching on the streets. A Christian came up to him and was trying to talk to him about his approach, and how there may be a more productive and less aggressive approach. Dorre asks him, Do you sin? The Christian says, "Everyone sins." Dorre says, "Then you my friend, are on your way to hell and don't even know it, because you have refused to repent of you sin." Dorre claims that he no longer sins, quoting how he quit drinking, drugs, but all sin of any kind. "If we say that we have no sin, the truth is not in us," but what more could I expect?

 

[BCsenior]

Ive noticed that hyper religious cultists who obsess on trying to preach anti-Grace messages, like so many found on this Thread, can't explain anything about how the Blood Atonement saves you, and keeps you saved.

It all begins and ends with grace.
But, man is called to co-operate with God's Plan of Salvation.
People like you hate me for showing them NT verses
that they don't understand and therefore hate.

You need to RECONCILE your favorite NT verses
with all of those that you refuse to accept as Truth.
Or, don't you want to?

 

[BCsenior]

Feels like this is leaving just about where I was.
Don't know if it's possible to appreciate (women) every time without lusting...

Then, consider the possibility of refusing to lust
just because you insist on being obedient to Jesus!
Remember He said, "Why call Me LORD, if you refuse to obey Me?"
And in 4 different verses in John, Jesus said,
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments."
Does anyone get into heaven who doesn't love Jesus?

 

[Chris V++]

It more a matter of repentance/change. A change in the way of thi9nking. Is it better living a life of self interest seeking gain often at the expe3nse of others? Or is it better to love all as self and be of service to others and you would hope for yourself in times of need?

But BAC are already doing this naturally, no? Doesn't a more refined conscience come with the territory, especially after reading the Bible with open eyes and hearing the preaching with ears that hear?

 

[BCsenior]

And my understanding of "fear of God" does not mean afraid of, but rather, revere.

Let's start with the fear of God ...
“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body;
they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can
destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Jesus, Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5)
This proves … “fear of the Lord” goes way beyond reverence!

 

[BCsenior]

Couldn't I also argue that as with the parable of the sheep and the goats, if you see people hungry and you do not feed them, naked and do not clothe them, sick and do not care for them, then you are also in jeopardy of going to hell?

A lot of these types of verses are there to PROVE who has salvation, and who does not.

 

[timothyu]

But BAC are already doing this naturally, no? Doesn't a more refined conscience come with the territory, especially after reading the Bible with open eyes and hearing the preaching with ears that hear?

More often seen is a sense of self-justification to carry on in the ways of self interest. Claiming a title is not the same as living it. Using God to justify actions is not the same as changing oneself to do His will.

 

[Chris V++]

More often seen is a sense of self-justification to carry on in the ways of self interest. Claiming a title is not the same as living it. Using God to justify actions is not the same as changing oneself to do His will.

Part of being a Christian is being thoroughly humbled by our own awareness of our personal shortcomings. Isn't that supposed to be our default state? Is sanctification supposed to reverse that condition?

 

[topher694]

You haven't noticed that all of the hurricanes, tornadoes, fires, flooding, etc. are escalating.
Any idea how many Americans have lost their homes lately?

These are not prophecies, but realities!
They have been sent as warnings to repent.
And to prepare for extremely difficult times.

Next up ... earthquakes ... more lives and homes lost.
Repent and Prepare!

Absolutely no.

God does not judge the righteous alongside the unrighteousness. Good Christian people are always hurt in these natural disasters. Natural disasters are not God's judgement if a single righteous Christian is harmed in any way.

Such talk is nothing but harmful and is not scripural.

 

[timothyu]

Part of being a Christian is being thoroughly humbled by our own awareness of our personal shortcomings. Isn't that supposed to be our default state?

Yes, but what some here are referring to is those who claim the name but refuse to be humbled. Self interest is still their god regardless of the Christian identity theft.

 

[Josheb]

Most churches today teach false doctrines.../QUOTE]
I know I'mcoming to the party late but I have a question I think very germane and critical to the varacity of this op.

Would you please provide evidence most churches today teach false doctrines? because I don't know a single church that teaches what's being asserted in this op and I can provide evidence from the various writings of major theologians and the various doctrinal statements of the leading denominations and many local congregations that prove the op incorrect. So.....


Would you please provide evidence for the claim, "Most churches today teach false doctrines"?


Thx

 

[BCsenior]

Would you please provide evidence for the claim, "Most churches today teach false doctrines"?

The claim is most churches today support grace-only, easy-believism, etc.

A lot of people on the internet claim this,
and many travelling evangelists return after visiting churches
and report their amazement at the deplorable condition of the churches!

Personally, I live in a city of 100,000 in BC where most churches
believe one cannot lose their salvation, i.e. grace lasts forever, etc.
Truly, IMO, most of them are Kindergarden churches.

If the bold is true, why all of the dire warnings in the NT?
Are they bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

And no one here wants to see these dire warnings that I keep talking about.
IMO, they want to remain in their never-never land
... believing that God's grace will get them through!
This is NOT what the NT teaches at all.

 

[topher694]

The claim is most churches today support grace-only, easy-believism, etc.

A lot of people on the internet claim this,
and many travelling evangelists return after visiting churches
and report their amazement at the deplorable condition of the churches!

Personally, I live in a city of 100,000 in BC where most churches
believe one cannot lose their salvation, i.e. grace lasts forever, etc.
Truly, IMO, most of them are Kindergarden churches.

If the bold is true, why all of the dire warnings in the NT?
Are they bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

And no one here wants to see these dire warnings that I keep talking about.
IMO, they want to remain in their never-never land
... believing that God's grace will get them through!
This is NOT what the NT teaches at all.

You just passed the buck and did the same thing again. How many traveling evangelizist do you know? How many have you talked to about this? Enough to speak for your entire city?

How about this for a dire warning: God sees what you are doing here as WORSE than hyper-grace. He calls it an abomination... Sowing discord among the breathren. Perhaps you should lead by example when it comes to repentance.

 

[Saint JOHN]

Ok lets go farther...…...

by faith or grace or confess with mouth (actually means to say the same as !!). etc (a package deal..the whole box and dice !!) ,well Jesus warned his disciples and told them...

Mark16v16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

package deal.. all of.. no signs no holy spirit contact with God...….for real !

it was God worshipers (there OWN WAY ) that crucified him ! they knew the scriptures and tried to use them against him (just like the devils temptations) , incorrectly of course .

just like today.. baby Jesus meek and mild do what you like he will let you run wild !!

Ga5v19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

basic .. how to.. ( Gods way !!)

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

a) Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth

so according to the word

b) 1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is
unfruitful.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

just religious as they were (and have been) in christ time !!

make sure you do ALL things according to the pattern I have laid down !! ( Gods.. not the blasphemous ways of wayward religious men !)

 

[seeking.IAM]

If you bothered to read the OP, it says MOST churches today are false.

Has OP visited "Most" churches? Must be very traveled!

 

[Gwendolynz]

Most churches today teach false doctrines for several reasons:
ignorance, unbelief, for popularity, for financial benefit, etc.
Only a few churches are teaching correct doctrine these days.
There is more to correct doctrine than “Jesus is Lord and Savior”.
Many Spirit-filled Christians are warning, “The church is fast asleep!”

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism …
are all called antinomianism! This is the notion that a one-time
justification saves … apart from sanctification. But, this is an
incomplete understanding of God’s wonderful free gift of grace!

The problem with easy-believism is that it allows
those who are living in hypocrisy, disobedience, and sin
(i.e. those who are NOT walking in obedience)
to live comfortably with a false assurance of salvation!
This leads to the tragedy described in Matthew 7:21-23 (for example).

These days, the religion I practice is rather simple, not permissive though. I do drink on a very limited basis, never to excess. I go to church to receive the Sacrament. The Lord's prayer is never far from me. Most Christians think nothing of eating Pork, but it makes me very uneasy. And yes I am aware of the so called New Testament 'permissions' on the subject. I was married for 38 years, and now am not. There will not be another. 1 Cor. 11:5 puzzles me and I wonder how a scripture so simple and plain could so easily be disregarded?

“… some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches,
saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
… they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4-5, NLT)

NOTE: We are talking here about believers who have received the Holy Spirit.

There are at least 10 NT verses for each of the following truths

Believers prove they have true saving faith:
1 -- by their obedience
2 -- by practicing righteousness
3 -- by living holy lives
4 -- by having a healthy fear of God
5 -- by repenting of their occasional sins
6 –- by overcoming sin, the world, Satan, persecution
7 –- by enduring in the faith to the end of their lives

Re: #4 … If people are believing and trusting in grace-only, cheap-grace,
hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc., HOW can they be fearing God?

So, all of these verses PROVE the road to eternal life is indeed narrow,
and believers are responsible for playing their part in their salvation!

Or, shall we view these verses as merely bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

Initially, through His grace, God gives to new believers:
Jesus’ righteousness, redemption, reconciliation, etc. and salvation.
However, this grace/salvation is NOT guaranteed to last forever!
Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).
And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Some believers are “of those who draw back to perdition” (Hebrews 10:39).

And there are many more warning verses.

 

[dad]

Most churches today teach false doctrines for several reasons:
ignorance, unbelief, for popularity, for financial benefit, etc.
Only a few churches are teaching correct doctrine these days.
There is more to correct doctrine than “Jesus is Lord and Savior”.
Many Spirit-filled Christians are warning, “The church is fast asleep!”

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism …
are all called antinomianism! This is the notion that a one-time
justification saves … apart from sanctification. But, this is an
incomplete understanding of God’s wonderful free gift of grace!

The problem with easy-believism is that it allows
those who are living in hypocrisy, disobedience, and sin
(i.e. those who are NOT walking in obedience)
to live comfortably with a false assurance of salvation!
This leads to the tragedy described in Matthew 7:21-23 (for example).

“… some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches,
saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.
… they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4-5, NLT)

NOTE: We are talking here about believers who have received the Holy Spirit.

There are at least 10 NT verses for each of the following truths

Believers prove they have true saving faith:
1 -- by their obedience
2 -- by practicing righteousness
3 -- by living holy lives
4 -- by having a healthy fear of God
5 -- by repenting of their occasional sins
6 –- by overcoming sin, the world, Satan, persecution
7 –- by enduring in the faith to the end of their lives

Re: #4 … If people are believing and trusting in grace-only, cheap-grace,
hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc., HOW can they be fearing God?

So, all of these verses PROVE the road to eternal life is indeed narrow,
and believers are responsible for playing their part in their salvation!

Or, shall we view these verses as merely bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?

Initially, through His grace, God gives to new believers:
Jesus’ righteousness, redemption, reconciliation, etc. and salvation.
However, this grace/salvation is NOT guaranteed to last forever!
Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).
And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Some believers are “of those who draw back to perdition” (Hebrews 10:39).

And there are many more warning verses.

I think it is easy enough to believe. Then He helps us in the works dept. Seems to me many of the folks hung up on a works trip are very churchy.

 

[dad]

But, man has to co-operate with the LORD's Plan of Salvation!
There's no such thing as an absolutely FREE ticket to heaven.

However, He freely gives it to all who ask.

 

[timothyu]

Seems to me many of the folks hung up on a works trip are very churchy.

Church is where they go to rest instead of being out doing something practical to show their fruits.