The ability of God - Does God always get His will done?

[renniks]

For instance, the lame man that John and Peter healed at the temple after Pentecost. According to the scripture, that man had lain crippled at the temple for years and years. Jesus had to have seen him there, probably passed right by him. And not just that man, but many others at the temple. If Jesus' love is what men think love should be, why didn't Jesus heal everyone?

You seriously are trying to say Jesus didn't heal everyone because he doesn't love every one? You didn't even address my question you just diverted. Jesus didn't heal everyone because that wasn't his primary mission. His mission was to offer spiritual healing to all. Anyone who he healed physically would eventually still die. He did healed when asked to. That should tell you something.

 

[renniks]

boxer receives punches - not by choice - but in the fury of the fight.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but a result of the collision.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

And which of these receivings is like receiving salvation? The lover can toss the letter without opening if he so chooses. The other two are like the calvinists bizarre interpretation of how salvation works. Like spiritual rape.

 

[renniks]

Your answer lacks scripture, so your assertion is shifting sand (Matthew 7:26-27).

God used me to perform Spirit led exegesis of passage where Joshua tells the Israelites to choose the gods on this side or that side of the river (Joshua 24:15) post, so it's not interpretation.

Lol, humble too, I see.
He asks them to choose God first. But if they don't choose God, they can choose other god's. I don't see what is hard to understand? It's a free choice.

 

[Kermos]

And which of these receivings is like receiving salvation? The lover can toss the letter without opening if he so chooses. The other two are like the calvinists bizarre interpretation of how salvation works. Like spiritual rape.

Your question is irrelevant. The statements I provided as "receive" examples demonstrate that "receive" occurs, period.

Your interpretation of what happens after "receive" is salacious because I provided a scripture reference in post #129 (to which you replied) that refutes your words. Look here:

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation inquired "Brethren, what shall we do?" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

We believers receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, so we are saved by God!

Your "spiritual rape" phrase is not Biblical terminology, so your phrase is nothing more than part of the dung heap.

 

[Kermos]

Lol, humble too, I see.
He asks them to choose God first. But if they don't choose God, they can choose other god's. I don't see what is hard to understand? It's a free choice.

More of you not quoting scripture, renniks!

No, your statement of "He asks them to choose God first" is false, a.k.a. a lie. Joshua did not "ask". I posted the verse, and here it is again:

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the YHWH"
(Joshua 24:15)

Joshua did not say "choose" nor a conjugate. Joshua gave a directive that if YHWH is disagreeable to the Israelite, and that is a big difference. In that directive it is conveyed that the Isrealite finds YHWH disagreeable NOT CHOOSES THAT YHWH IS DISAGREEABLE.

Your "free choice" is in error here, but this is the Old Testament. let's just see what the New Testament indicates about "choose"!

 

[Kermos]

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (the Apostle John recorded the words of Lord Jesus, John 15:16).

"I chose you out of the world" (the Apostle John recorded the words of Lord Jesus, John 15:19).

Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), chooses us believers; on the other hand, we believers do not choose Jesus. Jesus provides no exceptions in His words.

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (the Apostle Paul's writing, Ephesians 1:4 NASB).

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (the Apostle John's writing, Revelation 13:8, KJV).

Behold, Paul's writing matches Revelation 13:8 (when properly divided grammatically as is done in this post)!

See that God knows the names of all people saved and to be saved from the foundation of the world for our names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain!

Not only that, but Paul indicated that God "chose" which matches John 15:16!

"But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:13)

"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, [that is] the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you [will] testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning." (John 15:26-27)

Praise God, look at how loving God is "from the beginning" to His own (John 10:14)!!!

See, God chooses - "has chosen" in 2 Thessalonians 2:13)!

God chooses people unto salvation, God knows the names of all people saved and to be saved beforehand, thus is the Word of God!

 

[renniks]

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

Ummm, and this is supposed to prove that we don't have to receive salvation by a free choice? It does just the opposite. We repent and God saves. Of course salvation is an act of God. But it's not irresistibly applied as Paul confirms here.

 

[renniks]

If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YHWH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the YHWH"

Maybe you should read the previous verses. Hint: the chapter doesn't start with verse 24.

 

[renniks]

God chooses people unto salvation, God knows the names of all people saved and to be saved beforehand, thus is the Word of God!

Of course he does. He chooses those who are found to be in him. Yes he is omniscient. Arminians believe those things, you know. It's not an arbitrary choice, it's not unconditional. It's" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

[RaymondG]

Of course he does. He chooses those who are found to be in him. Yes he is omniscient. Arminians believe those things, you know. It's not an arbitrary choice, it's not unconditional. It's" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Yet, he IS your saviour, whether you believe it or not:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

 

[Kermos]

Ummm, and this is supposed to prove that we don't have to receive salvation by a free choice? It does just the opposite. We repent and God saves. Of course salvation is an act of God. But it's not irresistibly applied as Paul confirms here.

renniks, you have error in your post.

1) It's Peter that spoke these words, not Paul.

2) Repentance is from God, and here is the explanation:

BIBLE CITATION: For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

The Apostle Paul did not write "sorrow that is according to your free will" - no he did NOT - the Apostle Paul ascribed to God that which is rightly God's - Godly sorrow leading to repentance to salvation!

Behold, more of Paul's writing:

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance.

BIBLE CITATION: I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:9-10)

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

God grants repentance; therefore, repentance is not a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free choice".

renniks, no place in the Bible states that people "receive salvation by a free choice". You are attempting to put words into the Bible by saying that people "receive salvation by a free choice".

After all, Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

 

[Kermos]

Maybe you should read the previous verses. Hint: the chapter doesn't start with verse 24.

Again, you fail to quote. The previous verse is a command not a question. A command does not convey ability. Here is the previous verse to Joshua 24:15.

"Now, therefore, fear the YHWH and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and
serve the YHWH" (Joshua 24:14).

A person cannot choose God because God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

 

[Kermos]

Of course he does. He chooses those who are found to be in him. Yes he is omniscient. Arminians believe those things, you know. It's not an arbitrary choice, it's not unconditional. It's" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I notice that you emboldened "whosoever". It appears that you are attempting to quote John 3:16. Please include book, chapter, and verse when citing the Bible.

In John 3:16, the Greek word "pas" is translated in the KJV as "whosoever".

The Greek word "pas" translates to "all" or "every", but "whosoever" has a connotation of promiscuity that is not in the passage.

See "believe" in "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:29) - or written in a similar vein "the work of God is that you believe on Jesus whom the Father has sent" - thus we that believe have the work of God in us.

So the "believeth" in "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16) is a work of God.

I repeat, the "believeth" within us believers recorded in John 3:16 is a work of God.

Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

This all results in the accurate statement, man does not choose God. God chooses man unto salvation and santification.

Salvation is entirely conditional upon God's sovereign choice, and God placed the names of God's choice persons in the book of life of the Lamb slain, and God the book of life was written from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8).

 

[PuerAzaelis]

(John 15:16).

John 15:16-17 NLT
You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. [17] This is my command: Love each other.

 

[Kermos]

John 15:16-17 NLT
You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. [17] This is my command: Love each other.

Hello PuerAzaelis,

Lord Jesus' words are AWESOME!

Let's expand the quote further just two verses immediately adjacent beyond verse 17:

"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before [it hated] you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world" (John 15:18-19).

So, the Master Orator, Jesus, says "I chose you out of the world" which brings together that which He said in John 15:16.

It is in/through/by Christ Jesus that we believers "produce lasting fruit", for apart from Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:5).

Nonetheless, the declaration of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) is precise in that people do not choose Jesus; on the other hand, Jesus chooses people.

 

[BBAS 64]

You have not come off as unkind, not at all. But you have a strong belief in some things I don't. Yet, I'm sure we are on the same line on quite a few things. I intended to reply in the other thread but it was closed, so I started this thread.

Have you heard the voice of the Holy Spirit, if so have you always obeyed? If not, why do you think disobedience was impossible with Philip?

Jona is a great story. God is patient, He gave Jona another chance. Do you think God always give us a new chance?

God is acomplishing what he desires, certainly, from the choices we make. If we reject Him to the end His patience is gone. We will reap the outcome. God wants a person who rejects Him, to stop rejecting Him. But if the person won't allow the Spirit in, then God wants that person to reap the consequences.

If you have a son that is a criminal you want him locked in as long as he keeps on living a life in crime. That doesn't mean you don't love him or want him to change his lifestile, so he can be freed from prison.

Good day, Peter

Is disobedience a reality for hos adopted children ... yes it is.

If you could answer some of these questions it will really help me in ansqwewring what I think the question is...

Can we agree on some basics here about Phillip.

His heart was circumcised Eze 36 ( heart of stone removed etc..) by the work of God and he was gifted both repentance and faith. We have discussed these tings before so can we just assume this things from the start.

Ok so here goes in your question when did the Holy Spirit know/learn that Phillip was not going to follow his direct instructions?

Before He impressed it in his heart to do so, or did he only learn after impressing that desire on Phillip's heart and mind?

Blame .. wow. Can we take this slow?

I assume you are going to address

Isa 46:8"Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,' calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.

In Him,

Bill

 

[renniks]

BIBLE CITATION: For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

I see what you did there. Cherry picking out single verses and adding words to the verse. Not cool.

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

If you read these verses without your Calvinist lenses on, you will see that Paul is saying, first of all, that his letter caused them to have sorrow. He is encouraging them for doing the right thing..there is no proof text for irresistible grace here. He says: "At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter."
Obviously, to anyone reading the Bible without some man made doctrine in mind, this means they had the option of being guilty, but they choose to do right.
I find this happens over and over in talking to deterministic thinkers. They take everything and twist it to fit their "everything is predestined" agenda. It gets old rather quickly.

 

[zoidar]

Good day, Peter

Is disobedience a reality for hos adopted children ... yes it is.

If you could answer some of these questions it will really help me in ansqwewring what I think the question is...



In Him,

Bill

Ok so here goes in your question when did the Holy Spirit know/learn that Phillip was not going to follow his direct instructions?

I don't know, either after Philip made his choice or from the beginning of time.

Before He impressed it in his heart to do so, or did he only learn after impressing that desire on Phillip's heart and mind?

The Holy Spirit told Philp what to do. He didn't impress the desire in Philip's heart and mind. Philip did!

Isa 46:8"Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,' calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.

That's the cool part, no matter what happens God always has a plan for everything, that what He purposes will come true.

 

[renniks]

Again, you fail to quote. The previous verse is a command not a question. A command does not convey ability. Here is the previous verse to Joshua 24:15.

"Now, therefore, fear the YHWH and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and
serve the YHWH" (Joshua 24:14).

A person cannot choose God because God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

A command does not convey ability? Are you serious? Why command someone to do something if A. You are going to give them no other choices by irresistibly causing them to do it. or B. You are going to make it impossible for them to obey the command?
How about we stop with the cherry picking and read what is actually said:

14 “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

16 Then the people answered, “Far be it from us to forsake the Lord to serve other gods! 17 It was the Lord our God himself who brought us and our parents up out of Egypt, from that land of slavery, and performed those great signs before our eyes. He protected us on our entire journey and among all the nations through which we traveled. 18 And the Lord drove out before us all the nations, including the Amorites, who lived in the land. We too will serve the Lord, because he is our God.”

19 Joshua said to the people, “You are not able to serve the Lord. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. 20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.”

21 But the people said to Joshua, “No! We will serve the Lord.”

22 Then Joshua said, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen to serve the Lord.”

"A man cannot choose God", you said. Joshua says "you have chosen to serve the Lord."

So, I say, "Choose ye this day who you want to believe, your made made theology or God's Word. As for me, I will choose to believe God's word."

 

[renniks]

I notice that you emboldened "whosoever". It appears that you are attempting to quote John 3:16. Please include book, chapter, and verse when citing the Bible.

In John 3:16, the Greek word "pas" is translated in the KJV as "whosoever".

The Greek word "pas" translates to "all" or "every", but "whosoever" has a connotation of promiscuity that is not in the passage.

See "believe" in "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:29) - or written in a similar vein "the work of God is that you believe on Jesus whom the Father has sent" - thus we that believe have the work of God in us.

So the "believeth" in "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16) is a work of God.

I repeat, the "believeth" within us believers recorded in John 3:16 is a work of God.

Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

This all results in the accurate statement, man does not choose God. God chooses man unto salvation and santification.

Salvation is entirely conditional upon God's sovereign choice, and God placed the names of God's choice persons in the book of life of the Lamb slain, and God the book of life was written from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8).

πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων in John 3:16 coveys a generic subject, conditionality, and the meaning of “whoever believes.
There is nothing in the Greek that weakens the conditionality of the English translation, “whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.”
While John 3:16 limits salvation to believers, the universalism of the text is not limited to believers.
The sacrifice of Christ was for the world. And the indefinite, generic construction bearing the sense of whoever refers to whoever from the world believes in Christ. All of this implies that God wants all people to believe and be saved since he loves them and sacrificed his son for them.