Constantine created Christianity

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Still looking for His Spirit?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Galatians 5:22-23 ESV / 121 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Galatians 5:4 ESV / 78 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

I hope SDA agree that we are to walk in the Spirit and to love each other by the power of Christ.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As pointed out by several posts by different posters, non sequitur. This Scripture was not at all about Yahuweh's 7th day sabbath which they all recognized without debate, strife or argument at that time.

Oh the sabbath was not a holy day to Israel?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I hope SDA agree that we are to walk in the Spirit and to love each other by the power of Christ.

?? It looks like even in this last post you posted a lot of false assumptions and seeming accusations or false witness.....

They already are known to agree with Scripture to walk abiding in Christ Jesus and in the Father's Love for each other.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oh the sabbath was not a holy day to Israel?

And thus another false assumption.....

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As pointed out by several posts by different posters, non sequitur. This Scripture was not at all about Yahuweh's 7th day sabbath which they all recognized without debate, strife or argument at that time.

Hi Brother, from Temple, I learned that sabbaths includes the sabbath itself.

"
Colossians 2:16

• Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament /

Let no one judge you (mh ti uma krinetw). Prohibition present active imperative third singular, forbidding the habit of passing judgment in such matters. For krinw see on "Mt 7:1". Paul has here in mind the ascetic regulations and practices of one wing of the Gnostics (possibly Essenic or even Pharisaic influence). He makes a plea for freedom in such matters on a par with that in 1 Corinthians 8-9 ; Romans 14 ; Romans 15 . The Essenes went far beyond the Mosaic regulations. For the Jewish feasts see on "Ga 4:10". Josephus (Ant. III. 10, 1) expressly explains the "seventh day" as called "sabbata" (plural form as here, an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah)." Colossians 2:16 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

"
Chapter 10.

Concerning the festivals; and how each day of such festival is to be observed.

1. The law requires, that out of the publick expences a lamb of the first year be killed every day; at the beginning, and at the ending of the day. But on the seventh day, which is called the sabbath, they kill two, and sacrifice them in the same manner. But on the new moon they both perform the daily sacrifices, and slay two bulls, with seven lambs of the first year; and a kid of the goats also, for the expiation of sins; that is if they have sinned through ignorance."
Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book III

One of my Mothers' was Jewish and as such, we attended and learned from Temple after regular School.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hi Brother, from Temple, I learned that sabbaths includes the sabbath itself.

Good,
but in the Scripture in question,

the seventh day sanctified Shabbat of Yahuweh is not what was being questioned at all nor debated at all.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

And yet the church of antiquity, both East and West, thought that it did, as do 90% of the Christian churches today.

How do we suppose that everyone, or almost everyone, in history could get this uncomplicated verse (Col 2:16) so wrong?

"
3. But they who cast him out continued blind, forasmuch as they cavilled at the Lord, that it was the sabbath when He made clay of the spittle, and anointed the eyes of the blind man. For when the Lord cured with a word, the Jews openly cavilled. For He did no work on the sabbath day, when He spoke, and it was done. It was a manifest cavil; they cavilled at Him merely commanding, they cavilled at Him speaking; as if they did not themselves speak all the sabbath day. I might say that they do not speak not only on the sabbath, but on no day, forasmuch as they have kept back from the praises of the True God. Nevertheless, as I have said, brethren, it was a manifest cavil. The Lord said to a certain man, Stretch forth your hand; he was made whole, and they cavilled for that He healed on the sabbath day. What did He do? What work did He do? What burden did He bear? But in this instance, the spitting on the ground, the making clay, and anointing the man's eyes, is doing some work. Let no one doubt it, it was doing a work. The Lord did break the sabbath; but was not therefore guilty. What is that I have said, He broke the sabbath? He, the Light had come, He was removing the shadows. For the sabbath was enjoined by the Lord God, enjoined by Christ Himself, who was with the Father, when that Law was given; it was enjoined by Him, but in shadow of what was to come. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come. He had now come whose coming these things announced. Why do the shadows delight us? Open your eyes, you Jews; the Sun is present. We know. What do ye know, you blind in heart? What know ye? That this man is not of God, because he thus breaks the sabbath day. The sabbath, unhappy men, this very sabbath did Christ ordain, who you say is not of God. You observe the sabbath in a carnal manner, you have not the spittle of Christ. In this earth of the sabbath look also for the spittle of Christ, and you will understand that by the sabbath Christ was prophesied. But you, because you have not the spittle of Christ in the earth upon your eyes, you have not come unto Siloa, and have not washed the face, and have continued blind, blind to the good of this blind man, yea now no longer blind either in body or heart. He received clay with the spittle, his eyes were anointed, he came to Siloa, he washed his face, he believed on Christ, he saw, he continued not in that exceedingly fearful judgment; For judgment I came into this world, that they which see not may see, and that they which see may be made blind.
"
CHURCH FATHERS: Sermon 86 on the New Testament (Augustine)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hebrews 10:1-4 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
Sacrifices under the Law were “typical” not final
10 1-4 The Law possessed only a dim outline of the benefits Christ would bring and did not actually reproduce them. Consequently it was incapable of perfecting the souls of those who offered their regular annual sacrifices. For if it had, surely the sacrifices would have been discontinued—on the grounds that the worshippers, having been really cleansed, would have had no further consciousness of sin. In practice, however, the sacrifices amounted to an annual reminder of sins; for the blood of bulls and goats cannot really remove the guilt of sin.

Hebrews 10:1 King James Version (KJV)
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

When you look at verse 18 it is hard to figure out why there is peace between God and him.

"Except this, and may Adonai forgive your servant for it: when my master goes into the temple of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon — when I bow down, may Adonai forgive your servant for this"

The way I see it there are some aspects within Christianity as a whole that are debatable. The problem is which ones are important towards the Gospel of salvation and which ones are not. Which ones are so Heavenly minded they're of no Earthly good and which one's have some merit when put to the test.

In the real world look at a very recent example within the Roman Catholic Church in China. Their Chinese Cardinal is telling them its' OK to "even renounce the sacraments but not the faith".

Meanwhile we're here and busy testing our assertions about the Sabbath. Our places of worship aren't being burned and torn down. There's no chance we'll be labelled a criminal, tossed in prison and involuntarily put on an live organ donor list. Or thrown into some re education camp.

Basically are we going to die for the Gospel or what day we're supposed to worship on?

2 Kings 5:15-19 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
15 Naaman and his whole group came back to the man of God. He stood before Elisha and said, “Look, I now know there is no God in all the earth except in Israel. Now please accept a gift from me.”

16 But Elisha said, “The Lord is the one I serve, and as surely as he lives, I will not accept any gift.”

Naaman tried hard to make Elisha take the gift, but he refused. 17 Then Naaman said, “If you will not accept this gift, at least do this for me. Let me have enough dirt from Israel to fill the baskets on two of my mules. I ask this because I will never again offer any burnt offering or sacrifice to any other gods. I will offer sacrifices only to the Lord! 18 And I pray that the Lord will forgive me for this: When my master goes to the temple of Rimmon to worship that false god, he will want to lean on me for support. So I must bow down in the temple of Rimmon. I ask the Lord now to forgive me when that happens.”

19 Then Elisha said to Naaman, “Go in peace.”

It is clear that the man who was healed came to the realization that there is only one true God, who is in Israel, not from where he lives. But, he is required to go to the temple of a false god with his king. He is asking for forgiveness for that. That is not hard to understand. I think Naaman was healed so he would come to believe in only one true God.

Luke 4:23-27So he said to them, “I expect you will quote this proverb to me, ‘Cure yourself, doctor!’ Let us see you do in your own country all that we have heard that you did in Capernaum!” Then he added, “I assure you that no prophet is ever welcomed in his own country. I tell you the plain fact that in Elijah’s time, when the heavens were shut up for three and a half years and there was a great famine through the whole country, there were plenty of widows in Israel, but Elijah was not sent to any of them. But he was sent to Sarepta, to a widow in the country of Sidon. In the time of Elisha the prophet, there were a great many lepers in Israel, but not one of them was healed—only Naaman, the Syrian.”

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jesus did not commit adultery.

Thus, by YOUR LOGIC, He SINNED !?

Since, I only posted scriptures, you need to explain your statement.

Basic: if one is to keep one law of the those given to Israel, then they are required to keep all. If one drives a car on Saturday on the way to Church, they have sinned because by turning the key of the car(labor) they made fire, combustion. If they carried their bible to the car(labor)...

Exodus 35:3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
On the Sabbath you should not even light a fire in any of the places where you live.”

One's car is where they live, right?

ISAIAH 50:11:
Look, all you who kindle a fire, who encircle yourselves with sparks: walk in the light of your fire and in the spark you have kindled. This you shall have from My hand: you shall lie down in torment.

"
Driving

Fires cannot be started or extinguished on Shabbat, and driving (which sparks and burns fuel) falls under this category.

How to approach it: Walk! There is no greater feeling than just plain walking. "
Laws of Shabbat for Beginners
The Thirty-Nine Categories of Sabbath Work Prohibited By Law
"
Let's start with some basic activities from which we refrain on Shabbat:

• writing, erasing, and tearing;
• business transactions;
• driving or riding in cars or other vehicles;
• shopping;
• using the telephone;
• turning on or off anything which uses electricity, including lights, radios, television, computer, air-conditioners and alarm clocks;
• cooking, baking or kindling a fire;
• gardening and grass-mowing;
• doing laundry;"
• The Shabbat Laws

Other activities that by extension are prohibited on the Sabbath include the following:

• Adding fresh water to a vase of cut flowers (sowing–any activity that causes or furthers plant growth).
• Making a bouquet of flowers (making a sheaf).
• Separating good fruit from spoiled fruit (winnowing, selecting, sifting).
• Brushing dried mud from boots or clothes (grinding).
• Cutting hair or nails (shearing sheep-removing outer covering of a human or animal).
• Applying makeup (dyeing).
• Braiding hair (weaving).
• Drawing blood for a blood test (slaughtering).
• Rubbing soap to make lather, applying face cream, polishing shoes, using scouring powder for utensils or other surfaces (scraping-smoothing the surface of any material by grinding, rubbing, or polishing).
• Sharpening a pencil (cutting to shape-altering the size or shape of an item to make it better for human use).
• Painting, drawing, typing (writing, making durable marks on a durable material).
• Tearing through lettering on a package (erasing).
• Opening an umbrella or unfolding a screen (building).
• Smoking a cigarette, using the telephone (kindling a fire).
• Switching off an electric light (extinguishing a fire).
• Setting or winding a clock or watch (finishing off).
• Wearing eyeglasses not permanently required (carrying from private to public domain and vice versa).
• Shabbat's Work Prohibition | My Jewish Learning

Permitted Activities

The following activities are encouraged on Shabbat:

Spending Shabbat together with one's own immediate family;
Temple attendance for prayers;
Visiting family and friends (within walking distance);
Hosting guests (hachnasat orchim, "hospitality");
Singing zemirot, special songs for the Shabbat.
Reading, studying and discussing Torah and commentary, Mishnah and Talmud, learning some Halakha and Midrash.
The 39 Prohibited Sabbath Activities
TORAHTOTS 39 MELACHOT
What are the 39 melachot? - shabbat forbidden activities

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Since, I only posted scriptures, you need to explain your statement.

Did one of your posts say somewhere that if you try to obey a commandment, that is sin ? Or that someone who obeyed a commandment would end up being condemned ?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

?? It looks like even in this last post you posted a lot of false assumptions and seeming accusations or false witness.....

They already are known to agree with Scripture to walk abiding in Christ Jesus and in the Father's Love for each other.

It was a question for SDA to answer, since their posts looks like they are trying to keep the laws given to Israel. I have know some SDA who depend on their keeping the laws for salvation.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

And thus another false assumption.....

Exodus 31:13
Tell the Israelites: “Be sure to keep my sabbaths, because the Sabbath is a sign between me and you in every generation so you will know that I am the Lord who makes you holy.

Exodus 31:14Keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who violates the Sabbath will be put to death. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath, that person will be cut off from the people.

We learn two things from that text, the Sabbaths are for Israel and they are Holy for Israel.

No false assumptions there.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

time for a nap

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have know some SDA who depend on their keeping the laws for salvation.

I don't think you do.
So far, NO ONE, not you, not anyone, has shown this to be true.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oh the sabbath was not a holy day to Israel?

You purposefully sidestepped the truth and the actual question, it seems clear.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

10 Everyone, however, who is involved in trying to keep the Law’s demands falls under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the Law, to do them.’

Do you mean that you commit adultery, murder, and worse ?
OR do you NOT commit adultery?
do you NOT commit murder?
do you NOT bear false witness ?

 

[David Kent]

"Daniel Marsh, post: 74525414, member: 378377"]Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow is a good book on addressing their poor logic.

Ralph Woodrow withdrew that book as he changed his mind about it. When I ordered his book Great Prophecies of the Bible, he told me he had death threats for withdrawing Babylon Mystery Religion

 

[prodromos]

Ralph Woodrow withdrew that book as he changed his mind about it. When I ordered his book Great Prophecies of the Bible, he told me he had death threats for withdrawing Babylon Mystery Religion

I think Daniel meant to reference "The Babylon Connection?", which is the book Woodrow wrote after realising there was no factual basis for most of the claims in his previous book, "Babylon Mystery Religion".