Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?

[Douggg]

hi we are mostly on the same page but how did you deduce the sacrifice starts on day 220?

This is another one of those instances of determining when on the timeline something happens, it is necessary to work back from the ending.

Since the daily sacrifice cannot take place without a temple, a temple of some fashion has to be built. I don't show when the temple is rebuilt, or its size, because there is not enough information given.

Nonetheless, at the end of the seven years, the day that Jesus returns, Jesus will cast the beast into the lake of fire (one of three things that will have made the temple desolate: the beast, the false prophet, the image of the beast incarnated by Satan) as part of cleansing the temple.

Starting out as the little horn person in the beginning.... as the seven years progress, the little horn will have become the beast somewhere in the middle of the seven years, and as the beast is how he ends up when Jesus returns.

So to know on what day the sacrifices begin again, it is a matter of subtracting 2300 days from the day that Jesus returns to end the 7 years - which will be day 2520. day 2520-2300 days = day 220. That's how I arrive at the sacrifices beginning again on day 220.


Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Douggg]

Nobody knows about the rapture being before the Antichrist and the second fruits being the ones living in the times of the mark of the beast then? That’s what some say I can’t find it.

We don't know the exact time of the rapture. It could take place anytime between now and the beginning of the Day of the Lord. Before the Day of the Lord is because Christians are not appointed to the wrath that will take place then. 1Thessalonians5:9.

So, in relation to the 7 years, the question becomes when the Day of the Lord begins? This is another one of those instances when it is necessary to work back from the end of the seven years when Jesus returns to get an approximation (since an exact day on the timeline cannot be determined).

Working back...

Jesus returns on day 2520, last day of the 7 years. Which is preceded by the 1335 days of the great tribulation, which will be triggered when the abomination of desolation is setup in the temple. 1335 days before Jesus returns is day 1185 on the timeline. Which is in the first half of the 7 years, near the end of the first half.

The abomination of desolation will be the image of the beast, made of the person after he has been slain (Ezekiel 28:1-10) and brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20).

So, what causes the person to be slain? It will be because, he will go into the temple sit, and claim to have achieved God-hood (confirmed by the text in Ezekiel 28:1-10, and Daniel 8:25 "magnified in his heart"). That act (called the TOD, transgression of desolation from Daniel 8:12-13) is what triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord (called the Day of Christ in 2Thessalonians2:2), in 2Thessalonians 2:4

So, approximately, the Day of the Lord beginning, will be a month or so before day 1185 on the timeline.

The rapture must take place before then. Which is somewhere in the first half of the seven years, close to the end of it by about 4-6 months. Which would mean that the rapture may not happen until after the seven years begin. If so, who the Antichrist is at that time will be well known by them who are knowledgeable of the end times passages in the bible. But the rapture could have already happened, as I note on my chart in the middle in blue text.

 

[Douggg]

The world has been taken in by all of this end times nonsense. The "last days" as many New Testament authors informed us, were those in which the Old Covenant had been replaced with the New. The end of the Jewish age. You won't find the antiChrist in the Old Testament anywhere nor in Revelation.

To become the Antichrist, the person must anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel, Jesus. Mark 15:31-32, "Christ the King of Israel". "the Christ" function is to be the King of Israel, descended from King David. Common knowledge to them in the gospels. John 12:12-15, the King of Israel.

Differently, the role of being the little horn, in Daniel 7, and beast in Revelation, the person has to be the King of the Roman Empire in the end times.

 

[Al Touthentop]

This is another one of those instances of determining when on the timeline something happens, it is necessary to work back from the ending.

Since the daily sacrifice cannot take place without a temple, a temple of some fashion has to be built. I don't show when the temple is rebuilt, or its size, because there is not enough information given.

Nonetheless, at the end of the seven years, the day that Jesus returns, Jesus will cast the beast into the lake of fire (one of three things that will have made the temple desolate: the beast, the false prophet, the image of the beasts incarnated by Satan) as part of cleansing the temple.

And what if this was merely allegory, talking about how Jesus, who is the new temple, has defeated Satan already through his death, burial and resurrection?

What if the "cleansing of the temple" was Jesus' baptism? Thereafter he then cleansed the earthly temple as we read about in John 2. Not that Jesus had any sin, but that he was symbolically purifying the temple he himself was in preparation of the destruction of both temples, the real one being rebuilt through his resurrection and the now fake one, destroyed by the Romans.

Starting out as the little horn person in the beginning.... as the seven years progress, the little horn will have become the beast somewhere in the middle of the seven years, and as the beast is how he ends up when Jesus returns.

The little horn was referring to a ruler prior to the time of Jesus in Daniel's prophecy. It wasn't talking about something to happen after Jesus came. That whole prophecy is about the arrival of the new kingdom. And if it isn't, then the prophecy never came to pass and Jesus wasn't Messiah the Prince. It never happened if it hasn't been fulfilled.

It was Jesus who caused the sacrifices to cease. First they ceased in effectiveness, as Paul writes.

Hebrews 7:26-27
"For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself."

Then in AD 70 they ceased to be offered. And they can no longer be offered were even the physical temple to rebuilt. For they would be totally ineffective and incapable of remission, and it wouldn't be possible for the sacrifices to be offered lawfully. When the genealogies were destroyed with the temple, so was the ability to determine who was the priestly class charged with their administration under the law. Not one sacrifice would be acceptable to God since he has already provided the sacrifice to end all sacrifices.

The sacrifices will never begin again. When God said that Messiah the Prince would cause them to cease, it came to pass. And the reason he destroyed the temple so that not one stone would be upon another was because of their transgression, exactly as Daniel prophesied by the Holy Spirit's guidance.

Hebrews 10:1
"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect."

The perfect sacrifice had already been offered. They could not, after the New Covenant had been established, make anyone clean as they once did.

It never ceases to amaze me how people take these prophecies that were about Jesus and try to make them apply to something in the future, refusing to accept that they have already been fulfilled.

That's a total rejection of God's word and of Jesus who was the fulfillment of those words. The same Jesus who tells us that even if he comes again, it will not be to sit on an earthly throne, it will be to gather up his saints, judge the world and bring the faithful into heaven.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

There will be no literal battle of the valley of Megiddo. There will be no literal, earthly kingdom where Jesus leads armies to kill sinners. I have been a witness to the failure of false prophets who continue to reject Christ by their insistence that they know better than the authors of the New Testament who write that these prophecies spoke of Jesus and not future events.

But I'd rather witness these same false prophets finally accept God's word and the savior he predicted would come and who did come.

 

[Al Touthentop]

To become the Antichrist, the person must anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel, Jesus. Mark 15:31-32, "Christ the King of Israel". "the Christ" function is to be the King of Israel, descended from King David. Common knowledge to them in the gospels. John 12:12-15, the King of Israel.

Christ isn't a function.

Jesus Christ is the king of Israel, descended from David as God through his prophets foretold.

It would not be possible in this day and age to know if somebody was descended from David. I am convinced that the genealogies stored in the temple, were destroyed by God for just that reason.

You can't find the word Antichrist in the Old Testament. It isn't in there. That's because it's a Greek word. It's also not in Revelation. The Antichrist is not mentioned in either Revelation or Daniel.

John let us know that antichrist simply means "one who denies Christ." And even now there are many antichrists, he writes. Which is how we know (2000 years ago) that it is the last hour. He tells his readers that any doctrine predicting a single antichrist is of no concern. It is self-refuting since the term simply means one who denies Christ and there are lots of those around. People who read prophecies predicting that Jesus would establish his kingdom and then say that those prophecies were not fulfilled or were postponed are themselves antichrist. They deny Christ.

 

[Josheb]

So the rain didn't start the flood then eh? Allrighty then.

How long do you thing it took the rain to cover the Appalachians (4-5000 ft)? the Rockies (11-12000 ft)? The Himalayas (28-29,000)? The flooding was apparently fast because that 29,000 feet above sea level at Mt. Everest happened in forty days, but it wasn't instantaneous. This wasn't the Mississippi, or the Williamette flooding its banks; this was global. God could have flooded the world instantaneously but He didn't. He could have simple spoken a word of three (like "Cease to exist,") and everyone would have simply ceased to exist. God, apparently, wanted it slow.

So you can snicker and make snide comments if you like but don't imagine they merit any further consideration in this conversation. It's just rude and petty.

This op, is attempting to prove something that scripture does not say and the attempt is being made through abuses of scripture. That the op-relevant point. Those attempting to predict the year of the tribulation have always been a fringe portion of Christianity, both statistically and normatively. With the rise of Dispensational Premillennialism (DP) the practice of date-setting and time-frame setting has been chronic. No other theology generates some many false prognosticators is does DPism. I don't know if the op is DP, but I do know the eisegetic abuse of scripture attempted in support of this op is observable and if the best comment you have is, "So the rain..." then I'll make note of that fact and respond accordingly.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Genesis 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

 

[Douggg]

Christ isn't a function.

Christ is a english form of the greek word Christos (transliterated), which at the time of first century many in Israel spoke greek.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Messiah is a translation of the Hebrew word for "anointed". Which basically means someone chosen by God for a particular purpose. The kings were anointeds, as well as the priests. "the" Messiah refers to a special anointed person to become King of Israel, descended from King David, to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

There have only been three Kings of (united) Israel. Each was anointed by a known prophet, as a sign that person was chosen by God to be the king. Saul and David, were anointed by the prophet Samuel.
And Solomon, by the prophet Nathan.

To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed by a known (perceived to be) prophet. Which it appears to be what the false prophet of Revelation 13 will do. Although there is nothing specifically saying so in the text.

The Jews set a place for Elijah, every passover holyday, in anticipation of him coming right before the messianic age. For that reason, Elijah would meet the requirement to be the known prophet. In Revelation 13, the false prophet calls down fire from heaven - similar to what Elijah did when he confronted the prophets of baal. For that reason, it is likely that the false prophet will claim to be Elijah.

You can't find the word Antichrist in the Old Testament. It isn't in there. That's because it's a Greek word. It's also not in Revelation. The Antichrist is not mentioned in either Revelation or Daniel.

As I pointed out being the little horn is a function of being the King of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7. Being the little horn is not a function of being the King of Israel, i.e. the Antichrist, albeit not approved by God, coming in his own name. In fact, it is an error to call the person the Antichrist, when he is not in that role of being the perceived King of Israel messiah.

And although not by name, the prince who shall come who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant (Daniel 9:27) for 7 years - does so as the Antichrist because Moses made it a law back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13
that all future leaders of Israel do so.

John let us know that antichrist simply means "one who denies Christ." And even now there are many antichrists, he writes. Which is how we know (2000 years ago) that it is the last hour. He tells his readers that any doctrine predicting a single antichrist is of no concern.

(the part I highlighted in blue) No, John does not say any such thing. You have completely misunderstood what John said. John was saying that there were persons already leaving Christianity in his day, denying the Father and Son, John likened them to the coming antichrist singular - by calling them "antichrists".

 

[Al Touthentop]

How long do you thing it took the rain to cover the Appalachians (4-5000 ft)? the Rockies (11-12000 ft)? The Himalayas (28-29,000)?

Doesn't matter. The flood started the day the rain started. That was the day that Noah entered the ark with his family, the day that God told him to.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

God told him exactly seven days before the flood started when it was going to start. If Noah didn't know the exact day, then he just wasn't good at math.

Noah got a weeks heads up and worked on the ark for more than 100 years without knowing the day. The 1st coming of Jesus was exactly on time as from the order to go and rebuild Jerusalem until messiah the price shall be 7 and 62 weeks. That order went out and a week is 7 years so 483 years (Babylonian calendar Years) Jesus came riding in on the foal of a donkey and noted that they missed the day of their visitation. The 70th week of Daniel has a middle of the week where the abomination of desolation is to occur. Dan notes in the middle of the week the daily sacrifice is stopped. 2 Thes notes the man of sin is revealed in the temple with lying signs and wonders and demands to be worshiped as god and he is destroyed when the LORD comes. Rev 13 shows that the beast gains control over every tribe tongue kindred and nation for exactly 42 months. This is when the mark of the beast is rolled out and he is destroyed by the appearance of the Lord. So like Jesus 1st coming and 2nd there is a sign to watch for that you can mark you calendar from the sign and wait. This is one of the strongest evidences for the rapture as no one will know that day or hour and there are general signs for the times and seasons but this event is sudden and not mapped out for us. We have seen many people look foolish trying to set a date based on this or that and there will be many more but the word speaking of that event notes we won'[t know until it occurs.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Messiah is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for "anointed". Which basically means someone chosen by God for a particular purpose. The kings were anointeds, as well as the priests. "the" Messiah refers to a special anointed person to become King of Israel, descended from King David, to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

Which Christ did.

There have only been three Kings of (united) Israel. Each was anointed by a known prophet, as a sign that person was chosen by God to be the king. Saul and David, were anointed by the prophet Samuel.
And Solomon, by the prophet Nathan.

And Jesus, anointed by the prophet John.

To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed by a known (perceived to be) prophet. Which it appears to be what the false prophet of Revelation 13 will do. Although there is nothing specifically saying so in the text.

Exactly. It's not in the text. It's made up by men.

The Jews set a place for Elijah, every passover holiday, in anticipation of him coming right before the messianic age. For that reason, Elijah would meet the requirement to be the known prophet. In Revelation 13, the false prophet calls down fire from heaven - similar to what Elijah did when he confronted the prophets of baal. For that reason, it is likely that the false prophet will claim to be Elijah.

"And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come." Matt 11:14

Yes. They were familiar with Malachi and Isaiah 40. Elijah returned - or his "spirit" returned.

As I pointed out being the little horn is a function of being the King of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.

The Roman empire, occurring in the exact time-frame Daniel predicted.

Being the little horn is not a function of being the King of Israel, i.e. the Antichrist, albeit not approved by God, coming in his own name. In fact, it is an error to call the person the Antichrist, when he is not in that role of being the perceived King of Israel messiah.

According to a theory that has no textual support as you've already acknowledged.

And although not by name, the prince who shall come who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant (Daniel 9:27) for 7 years - does so as the Antichrist because Moses made it a law back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13
that all future leaders of Israel do so.

Jesus came and confirmed the covenant, exactly as Daniel and other prophets said he would. His ministry lasted a little over three years and he was crucified in the "middle" of the seventieth week just as Daniel predicted.

(the part I highlighted in blue) No, John does not say any such thing. You have completely misunderstood what John said. John was saying that there persons already leaving Christianity in his day, denying the Father and Son, John likened them to the coming antichrist singular - by calling them "antichrists".

Making it plain that there was no singular antichrist to be concerned about. And by your own definition, one that has no textual support, John would be in error if he denoted anyone to be an antichrist who wasn't also somebody who made himself out to be king of united Israel. Yet he said there were many. Thus it is your definition that is flawed, not the definition which he wrote down by the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Your theories require you to deny that the Christ ever came. What does John say about that?

 

[Al Touthentop]

Noah got a weeks heads up and worked on the ark for more than 100 years without knowing the day. The 1st coming of Jesus was exactly on time as from the order to go and rebuild Jerusalem until messiah the price shall be 7 and 62 weeks. That order went out and a week is 7 years so 483 years (Babylonian calendar Years) Jesus came riding in on the foal of a donkey and noted that they missed the day of their visitation. The 70th week of Daniel has a middle of the week where the abomination of desolation is to occur. Dan notes in the middle of the week the daily sacrifice is stopped. 2 Thes notes the man of sin is revealed in the temple with lying signs and wonders and demands to be worshiped as god and he is destroyed when the LORD comes. Rev 13 shows that the beast gains control over every tribe tongue kindred and nation for exactly 42 months. This is when the mark of the beast is rolled out and he is destroyed by the appearance of the Lord. So like Jesus 1st coming and 2nd there is a sign to watch for that you can mark you calendar from the sign and wait. This is one of the strongest evidences for the rapture as no one will know that day or hour and there are general signs for the times and seasons but this event is sudden and not mapped out for us. We have seen many people look foolish trying to set a date based on this or that and there will be many more but the word speaking of that event notes we won'[t know until it occurs.

The 70 weeks came and went exactly as God said. If the events didn't happen in exactly the amount of time that God determined, then God was wrong and all of the modern day men who try to shoe horn their theories into the text are correct. So should we worship men rather than God? Because they are more correct than God?

 

[Douggg]

Making it plain that there was no singular antichrist to be concerned about. And by your own definition, one that has no textual support, John would be in error if he denoted anyone to be an antichrist who wasn't also somebody who made himself out to be king of united Israel. Yet he said there were many. Thus it is your definition that is flawed, not the definition which he wrote down by the direction of the Holy Spirit.

John was not identifying the antichrist, the specific person, because that person had not come in John's day. And the antichrist is still future of us, but not by much.

Jesus came and confirmed the covenant, exactly as Daniel and other prophets said he would. His ministry lasted a little over three years and he was crucified in the "middle" of the seventieth week just as Daniel predicted.

Jesus was crucified after 69 1/2 weeks? No, that is not what the text says at all.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Your theories require you to deny that the Christ ever came.

Because the messiah, Jesus, was cutoff after threescore and two weeks, and not threescore and two and a half weeks, as you claim?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

"My kingdom is not of this world.."

There is no trace of the old kingdom of Israel. Jesus said that the prophecies in the old Testament spoke of him. His kingdom, which was bestowed upon him by God at his death and resurrection, has no end. He never promised an earthly kingdom.

The language you are quoting is figurative, not literal. If we read prophecy like that, then we have to reject John the Baptist as Elijah since he never moved any literal mountains or valleys.

do not be led into every wind of doctrine...in Jer 31 when the new covenant was promised have you read the rest of the chapter?
35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
37 Thus says the LORD:
“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.
38 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”

In this section which immediately follows the promise of a new covenant God reaffirms twice that Israel will not cease to be a nation in His eyes. Now Jesus wept for Jerusalem and predicted their destruction. God alone knows the future so the placing of this promise right after the event that would precede their destruction is by design. The end of the chapter speaks of clearly Jerusalem noting it will be built and holy from a time when dead bodies are piled up and that it will not be thrown down anymore. Look at Zech 14 we see Jerusalem is being overrun and the LORD fights and kills many enemies and then life is seen continuing after the LORD is king over all the earth.

also note Jeremiah points out that in the new covenant God will forgive sins and give them a new heart and write His laws in their hearts and minds and He will be there God. Now Israel did not receive Jesus and the church was born into the new covenant. But God reaffirms this exact promise and experience to national Israel and even notes that this promise is to those who have been gathered back from all the nations where God has scattered them. Eze 36 you should read ch 36-40 but in 36
For indeed I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. 10 I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities shall be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. 11 I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bear young; I will make you inhabited as in former times, and do better for you than at your beginnings. Then you shall know that I am the LORD. 12 Yes, I will cause men to walk on you, My people Israel; they shall take possession of you, and you shall be their inheritance; no more shall you bereave them of children.”
13 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Because they say to you, ‘You devour men and bereave your nation of children,’ 14 therefore you shall devour men no more, nor bereave your nation anymore,” says the Lord GOD. 15 “Nor will I let you hear the taunts of the nations anymore, nor bear the reproach of the peoples anymore, nor shall you cause your nation to stumble anymore,” says the Lord GOD.’ ”.....
2 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD,” says the Lord GOD, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

I am taking all these passages and they are congruent taken literally and in the future sense. The 3rd temple is coming and the abomination of desolation is going to take place. Jesus notes that Israel will be desolate and yet one day this will happen. 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’ ”. This is the LORD coming in Zech 14, Dan 2 7 and finishing the 70th week of Daniel.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Noah got a weeks heads up and worked on the ark for more than 100 years without knowing the day. The 1st coming of Jesus was exactly on time as from the order to go and rebuild Jerusalem until messiah the price shall be 7 and 62 weeks. That order went out and a week is 7 years so 483 years (Babylonian calendar Years) Jesus came riding in on the foal of a donkey and noted that they missed the day of their visitation. The 70th week of Daniel has a middle of the week where the abomination of desolation is to occur. Dan notes in the middle of the week the daily sacrifice is stopped. 2 Thes notes the man of sin is revealed in the temple with lying signs and wonders and demands to be worshiped as god and he is destroyed when the LORD comes. Rev 13 shows that the beast gains control over every tribe tongue kindred and nation for exactly 42 months. This is when the mark of the beast is rolled out and he is destroyed by the appearance of the Lord. So like Jesus 1st coming and 2nd there is a sign to watch for that you can mark you calendar from the sign and wait. This is one of the strongest evidences for the rapture as no one will know that day or hour and there are general signs for the times and seasons but this event is sudden and not mapped out for us. We have seen many people look foolish trying to set a date based on this or that and there will be many more but the word speaking of that event notes we won'[t know until it occurs.

IMHO the Rapture will mark the beginning of the last 7 years before Lord Jesus returns. We see the increasing birth pangs happening on Earth.I am a nurse and my specialty is obstetrics, so I know labor and delivery of babies. Lord Jesus said the end will be like birth pangs on a woman. So, imho,we can say that labor started in 1948 at(early stage)the establishment of the nation of Israel. Since then we have seen an incremental increase in severity of the parameters Lord Jesus set forth in Matthew 24. Some people labor slowly, others more vigorously, so no one can actually put a time on when the baby will arrive. So also imho, it is important to keep this in mind when thinking about the tribulation.

 

[Josheb]

Doesn't matter. The flood started the day the rain started. That was the day that Noah entered the ark with his family, the day that God told him to.

No, the rain started the day the rain started. It didn't qualify as a flood until some time later when flooding actually occurred. God told Noah the rain would begin in a week. God did not say the flood would occur in a week. Noah likely sat around in the ark until the water gathered sufficiently to float the boat.

More op-relevantly, this is an example of God giving an explicit time marker and the op seeks to use this example by overgeneralizing what was actually disclosed. Not only does the op seek to eisegetically overgeneralize but this eisegetic overgeneralization is leveraged to prove a futurist interpretation of the tribulation..... when in fact Jesus did give a marker but the op has ignored it! It was ignored in scripture and it's been ignored in these posts.

And for some unstated reason you think quibbling over the difference between rain and flood is cogent.

It is not.

There is no year specified for when the tribulation will occur because the tribulation of Matthew 24 has already occurred. In order to discuss a still-future tribulation the op will have to justify more than one tribulation exists. I'm open to that possibility and patiently waiting for one of you to get off your backsides and show up with some op-relevant content that actually attends to the explicit details of scripture and not what is eisegetically inferred or imagined.

This conversation - if it ever actually develops into a discuss about the claims of this op - will likely address the matter of whether we Christians will be around to experience this yet-to-happen tribulation asserted by this op. Scripture has much to say about that.

Looking forward to discussing it.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Jesus was crucified after 69 1/2 weeks? No, that is not what the text says at all.

It's exactly what the text says. This is in the text you felt needed to be left out....

25.
"There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;"


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After three score and two weeks (and the seven weeks which preceded that), which makes this part of the prophecy speaking about the 70th week. It occurs "after three score and two weeks", not during. You know, language is important. "After" means after the 7 + 62 weeks had elapsed. Thus, no gap in this prophecy. After 69 weeks is 70. Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th week.

Because the messiah, Jesus, was cutoff after threescore and two weeks, and not threescore and two and a half weeks, as you claim?

No, because you refuse to accept that the 70 weeks determined, by God, occurred exactly as was predicted. And if it didn't happen as was predicted, then God was mistaken and the Messiah didn't actually come. But he did. And he established the kingdom as was prophesied. I didn't say 2 and a half weeks. The prophecy says that it happens in the middle of the seventieth week, three and a half days, or 3 and a half years - the middle of the "week."

"But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."

The sacrifices ceased their effectiveness when he was crucified. The law was nailed to the cross.

 

[Douggg]

After three score and two weeks (and the seven weeks which preceded that), which makes this part of the prophecy speaking about the 70th week. It occurs "after three score and two weeks", not during. You know, language is important. "After" means after the 7 + 62 weeks had elapsed. Thus, no gap in this prophecy. After 69 weeks is 70. Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th week.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

(unto the Messiah the Prince) Jesus rode into Jerusalem, riding the donkey, on Palms Sunday, hailed as the messiah, John 12:12-15 (below).

Four days later, Jesus was crucified (cut off, but not for himself). That is the "after" (after threescore and two weeks). Four days. Not the three and a half years later as you are claiming (in the middle of the 70th week).

The 70th week is still future.

And I have been explaining to you the function of "the" Christ is to be the King of Israel. The Antichrist will be someone who will be anointed the King of Israel, but is not the one who God sent to be their king. i.e. he comes in his own name, i.e. not approved by God.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

No, because you refuse to accept that the 70 weeks determined, by God, occurred exactly as was predicted. And if it didn't happen as was predicted, then God was mistaken and the Messiah didn't actually come. But he did. And he established the kingdom as was prophesied. I didn't say 2 and a half weeks. The prophecy says that it happens in the middle of the seventieth week, three and a half days, or 3 and a half years - the middle of the "week."

You are asserting your misinterpretation of Jesus being cutoff in the middle of the 70th week, as being "exactly as was predicted".

In Daniel 8:12-13, it is the little horn, at the time of the end, who stops the daily sacrifice. According your logic, it was Jesus, who stopped the daily sacrifice. But according to history, the daily sacrifice actually continued for 40 years, thereabouts, until the temple was destroyed in 70ad.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

It's exactly what the text says. This is in the text you felt needed to be left out....

25.
"There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;"


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After three score and two weeks (and the seven weeks which preceded that), which makes this part of the prophecy speaking about the 70th week. It occurs "after three score and two weeks", not during. You know, language is important. "After" means after the 7 + 62 weeks had elapsed. Thus, no gap in this prophecy. After 69 weeks is 70. Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th week.




No, because you refuse to accept that the 70 weeks determined, by God, occurred exactly as was predicted. And if it didn't happen as was predicted, then God was mistaken and the Messiah didn't actually come. But he did. And he established the kingdom as was prophesied. I didn't say 2 and a half weeks. The prophecy says that it happens in the middle of the seventieth week, three and a half days, or 3 and a half years - the middle of the "week."

"But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."

The sacrifices ceased their effectiveness when he was crucified. The law was nailed to the cross.

have you studied sir robert andersons work the coming prince? Jesus said that they did not know the day of their visitation which was when Jesus road in on the foal of a donkey which was precisely on the day when 7 and 62 weeks were accomplished form order to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls. The subsequent destruction of the temple and ending of the sacrifice are speaking of of the sacrifices that are to be made in the 3rd temple. Hosea 3 is proof that it is future. 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.
Note the return of the kingdom in the latter days is directly linked to going many days without a sacrifice which implies after many days they will have it again. The future end times temple that is the stage for the abomination of desolation is already planned for. This is like watching Noah's ark being built and when it was nearly finished if you had discernrment you would know the flood was coming. if you look at Dan 9 a bit more who are the people of the coming prince who shall destroy the city and sanctuary? They were not Christians and Jesus was not a Roman? The future view sees the Roman global government rising back up as a world government much like the tower of Babel efforts to unite man. This government through the UN is to set up 10 heads over the 10 regions of the earth.
If you read Jer 31 the end of the chapter after the new covenant was promised and after God afirms twice that He will not cut off Israel from being a nation even for all they have done it states that there is a time when the city will be built and holy and never thrown down again and it notes that this building takes place when there are dead bodies everywhere. If you consider Zech 14 which shows the 2nd coming of the LORD Jerusalem is being overrun and the LORD comes and destroys the enemies and in this chapter in notes that half the city is taken and this is the day the LORD is king over all the earth. There will be dead bodies everywhere and the city will be rebuilt and never thrown down again. The 2nd coming is many gathered to Israel and the Armageddon event. This is completely different than the description of what happens after the 1000 years is over. Satan is loosed and forms an army which surrounds Jerusalem and that is it; then the Great white throne and new Jerusalem. I can present many more detailed chapters that all hold to be congruent taken literally which is lining up with reality right now.

 

[Al Touthentop]

have you studied sir robert andersons work the coming prince? Jesus said that they did not know the day of their visitation which was when Jesus road in on the foal of a donkey which was precisely on the day when 7 and 62 weeks were accomplished form order to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls.

Jesus says they did not know the day of their visitation because they were looking for a physical kingdom to be re-established and that wasn't what the prophecies were about.

The ceasing of the sacrifices happens in the "middle" of the 70th week. (AFTER 7 + 62 weeks = 70 weeks). There is no gap between the 69th and 70th week except in the vivid imagination of people who are trying to mislead those they teach.

The "ceasing" was not stopping, it was the ceasing of effectiveness. Jesus became king when he was crucified and resurrected, the sacrifice to end all sacrifices, not when he rode in on a donkey. Then in AD 70-74, which was many "weeks" after the 70th week of Daniel's (God's) prophecy, the physical temple was destroyed. The resurrection of Christ was the "rebuilding" of the temple, the spiritual temple.

Acts 2:30-33
"Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear."

The dead bodies in Jerusalem? Dead to God. Why did Jesus command them to be born again? Because they were spiritually dead, cut off from God.

Jesus was made king through his death burial and resurrection. The temple spoken of in prophecy was him, not the physical temple. John attests to this in his gospel account.

John 2:13-21
"Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.”

18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said."

That term "the scripture" is speaking about the Old Testament prophecies about the rebuilding of the temple. At the end of Luke we read that Jesus opened the apostle's minds to the scriptures so they could understand the prophecies. Then of course they wrote things down so we could also understand those prophecies and not fall into the same errors of the Pharisees and scribes.

John 5:39
"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."