None of These Diseases: I am the Lord who heals you.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry but that doesn't make sense.

Common sense? Human sense? Sense in the flesh, or carnal, or worldly ? No, God's Ways don't.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The teaching that anyone who is saved is guaranteed good physical health is not true.

What does Scripture say ? (don't worry about what men say)

If as you say, God regarded me as whole the first time I prayed for healing, why did he later remove the symptoms?

In Scripture, it is written (God Says) "We WERE crucified WITH CHRIST" .... (done deal, accomplished, finished) .....

Well I still don't believe it, yet God still healed me.

Good .

So if that's what is being said in this thread, it's incorrect.

Stick with God's Word.

 

[Guojing]

Sorry but that doesn't make sense.
I had M.E for 18 years; God healed me, miraculously, 10 years ago.
If as you say, God regarded me as whole the first time I prayed for healing, why did he later remove the symptoms? I was told several times on here, by the W.O.F crowd, that God HAD healed me, I needed to align my faith with that fact and that if I didn't, I wouldn't be healed.
Well I still don't believe it, yet God still healed me.

Never in the Gospels did Jesus say, "You are healed - now you have to renew your mind with that truth and the symptoms will disappear." When he touched a blind man and the man said "I see people, they look like trees walking about", Mark 8:24, Jesus did not say, "that's because your faith's not very strong and you only partly believe you are healed"; he touched the man again, and he could see.

Jairus' daughter had no faith; she was dead, and her parents laughed at Jesus - he still raised her to life again.

The healing miracles were supercharged during Jesus time because he had the sign gift of healing.

The Jews always required signs to believe in their Messiah and thus, he was performing all those healing to prove that he was indeed the Son of God. John 20:30-31

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The healing miracles were supercharged during Jesus time because he had the sign gift of healing.

Jesus DID NOT EVER NEED a "gift" , including "the sign gift".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Jews always required signs to believe in their Messiah and thus, he was performing all those healing to prove that he was indeed the Son of God. John 20:30-31

That verse(s) does not render , would you post it in full? I don't believe it says what your post says, if you mean the Messiah performed all those healings to prove to the Jews that he was indeed the Son of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

Common sense? Human sense?

No; reason according to the sense that God gave us.

No, God's Ways don't.

The idea that God disperses good health along with salvation is not Scriptural, and not his way.

 

[Strong in Him]

What does Scripture say ?

Lots of things - including that those who come to Jesus will have eternal life. NOT that those who believe in him will have perfect physical health.

The reverse doctrine - that good health = salvation and is a sign of good faith - is a man made one.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No; reason according to the sense that God gave us.

i.e. of the flesh (apparently is what you mean and have used) .

The idea that God disperses good health along with salvation is not Scriptural, and not his way.

< shrugs > How you found that out I don't know.

Reading Scripture Reveals much more, as God grants it.

Even to the Jews , BEFORE CHRIST, btw.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Lots of things - including that those who come to Jesus will have eternal life. NOT that those who believe in him will have perfect physical health.

Really.

WHO bears our sins Himself ? (Prove it by Scripture, if you can)

 

[Strong in Him]

i.e. of the flesh (apparently is what you mean and have used) .

No, not necessarily.
God gave us our minds, common sense and logic, and if we are in Christ and walking with him, we are not operating in the flesh. Of course we MAY get things wrong sometimes, but that is not the same as saying that all our reasoning is only from us; human logic and thought from a person who is walking in the flesh and not the Spirit.
Or to put it another way - common sense can still be from God.

< shrugs > How you found that out I don't know.

So show me where Scripture teaches otherwise.
Where did Jesus say, "come to me and you will receive eternal life - oh, and if you have M.S/cancer/depression/the flu, that will be immediately healed also."

Reading Scripture Reveals much more, as God grants it.

Yep.
And as Scripture doesn't say that believers are guaranteed a life of good health, will never be ill, but will be more than conquerors IN all things and have God's presence with us at all times - I'm sticking with Scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

Really.

WHO bears our sins Himself ? (Prove it by Scripture, if you can)

Don't know what you mean.
Jesus bears our sins, obviously, I have never said otherwise. I don't need to prove that; it's what Scripture says.

 

[brinny]

The healing miracles were supercharged during Jesus time because he had the sign gift of healing.

The Jews always required signs to believe in their Messiah and thus, he was performing all those healing to prove that he was indeed the Son of God. John 20:30-31

i agree with Jeff here. Jesus IS our HEALER. He didn't require a "gift" of healing. He was/is THE HEALER Himself, God incarnate, Guojing.

By the way, a late welcome to CF to you.

God bless you.

 

[joshua 1 9]

But that doesn't mean that are guaranteed it, that a Christian can never be ill and that it somehow shows a lack of faith if we are.
You may not be claiming those things; some Christians do.

I believe the grace of God gives us strength to overcome a fallen world. We are to pray: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven". (Matthew 6:10) We are to call the things that are not as though they were. (Romans 4:17) This fallen world is being redeemed and restored. We are a part of that battle: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." (Eph 6:2) Everything is crystal clear with God, yet we still see dimly as a reflection in a mirror.

Jesus said: "It is finished" (John19:28) Yet we still wait for a day when there will be a "new Heaven and a New Earth" (Rev 21:1). We are to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4) How much of this is a battle to be won and how much of this have we already layed hold of? To say we can not be healed is like declaring defeat and saying we have lost the battle and we did not gain the victory over adversity.

"We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection". (Romans 6:4)

 

[joshua 1 9]

The healing miracles were supercharged during Jesus time because he had the sign gift of healing.

We are to do greater works then Jesus did. "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12) Also going back to Moses we are told that the latter rain at the end of this age is greater then the beginning. Because we need to bring in the Harvest and the enemy knows that his time is short.

Deuteronomy 11:14
then I will provide rain for your land in season, the autumn and spring rains, that you may gather your grain, new wine, and oil.

25 years ago we were trying to catch up with the early church to have what they had. Now we have gone beyond them and we have greater power working in us then they had working in them. They did not have a drug epidemic based on witchcraft and sorcery the way we do today. There is far less violence in the world today (compared to ww2) but there is still a substantial body bag count.

My brother has done medical missionary work in third world nations where there is still a substantial amount of childhood disease that has been eliminated in industrial countries. We have school shooting but we do not have children in iron lungs anymore.

Wild polio virus cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated 350,000 cases in more than 125 endemic countries then, to 33 reported cases in 2018. Even though in places like Pakinstan Polio vaccine workers have been shot and killed.

My dad served our community as a Pediatrician for over 50 years. My guess is that 20% of the people in this city would not be alive if it were not for the program that he administered through his practice. Not that he would ever take credit for that. But I do not have a problem with taking credit for him. What I have a problem with is this new generation of doctors that are killing people left and right trying to claim they are helping people. All the time they are promoting a massive drug epidemic. We have a body bag count from this epidemic rapidly approaching one million people. My son was one of them.

To get back to the point, we have greater power available to us today. More then ever before because the challenge we have to work with is greater then ever before. Still we have the victory and we are more then over-comers and I am not going to admit defeat as some people seem to want to.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If that were true then every Christian who was saved would be physically healed and well and a non Christian would be healed as soon as they were saved.

Paul said: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me". (Philip 3:12) This would suggest that all of this is a process, even a life time process. When I was first saved I left the church and I ran a red light. I was convicted that I was a christian now and that I should follow all of the rules. It is that way in Heaven. No one ever breaks any of the rules there.

 

[jahel]

I don’t think it matters in this life life beyond the basics of spiritual things if we always choose to sit in the back and observe well. We’ll be sure to get a room with a view when the Father chooses the seating in the Kingdom and what we will wear in eternity. His coat of many colours that He will make for His children, presumably.

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul said: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me". (Philip 3:12) This would suggest that all of this is a process, even a life time process.

Sanctification is a process, certainly.
Needing to accept the teaching that we have a right to be healed physically, is not; it is an incorrect teaching.

 

[Guojing]

i agree with Jeff here. Jesus IS our HEALER. He didn't require a "gift" of healing. He was/is THE HEALER Himself, God incarnate, Guojing.

By the way, a late welcome to CF to you.

God bless you.

I am not saying that, I am saying he had the sign gift of healing in order to verify his identity to the Jews.

There are plenty of Scripture verses stating that the Jews always needed a sign in order to believe. I am sure you are aware of them?

 

[Guojing]

Jesus DID NOT EVER NEED a "gift" , including "the sign gift".

I am not saying that, I am saying he had the sign gift of healing in order to verify his identity to the Jews. It was for the benefit of the Jews, not him.

There are plenty of Scripture verses stating that the Jews always needed a sign in order to believe. I am sure you are aware of them?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am not saying that, I am saying he had the sign gift of healing in order to verify his identity to the Jews. It was for the benefit of the Jews, not him.
There are plenty of Scripture verses stating that the Jews always needed a sign in order to believe. I am sure you are aware of them?

What ONE sign did JESUS HIMSELF SaY Was Given to the Jews? (NOT healing, which their own people were able to do at times).
Jesus needed no gift to do anything He accomplished - He simply obeyed the Father, always resting the whole care of His Own Life in the Father's Hands, and always as the Father accomplished all that Jesus did obediently and willingly without any doubt and without any sin nor iniquity at all.