None of These Diseases: I am the Lord who heals you.

[Strong in Him]

God is still alive, He is not dead!

Never said he was.
But he can heal us without conditions - without bargaining, "you do your bit, then I'll do mine." His healing, like his grace and love, are unconditional.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It means to ask God how he wants you to pray for someone, and then do it.

Ask God.
Yes.
God IS ALIVE TODAY ! HALLELUYAH !
Good.

And who did he say it to; Christians who would live 2000 years later, or Hebrews who had just been brought out of slavery in Egypt and saw all the plagues that the Egyptians suffered because Pharaoh refused to obey God?

Ask God.
Yes.
He still heals today - HIS PROMISES ARE STILL TRUE TODAY !

 

[joshua 1 9]

I said that that's what your words implied

Sounds like reading comprehension is not your strong point. The discussion here is what does the Bible says. As I told you before your personal attacks on me is a violation of the rules for this forum that you agreed to when you joined.

I wouldn't start with Exodus

Then start another post because this thread is about that scripture.

And who did he say it to; Christians who would live 2000 years later, or Hebrews who had just been brought out of slavery in Egypt and saw all the plagues that the Egyptians suffered because Pharaoh refused to obey God?

Actually he personally said it to you and me. The issue is he was using language from his time and his day. This is why I study the ancient Hebrew letters, so I can better understand the Bible and the message there for us in our day and our generation. At the time of Moses transportation was a camel. They were living in tents in the desert. Even the tabernacle where God dwelled in the Holy of Holys was a tent. Today we travel by Jet Airplanes. The Tabernacle was replaced with a temple. The home we live in is a lot more complex then the tents they lived in at the time Moses gave us the Torah. So we do need to take all of this into consideration. Esp how the langauge has evolved sense the day of Moses. I have been to Bible college so I do understand the rules for Bible interpertation. First we look at who the Bible was written for at the time. Then we look at what the message is for us in our generation.

That latter sentence is the only one I agree with

The part you do not agree with is a direct quote from the Bible. So you disagree with what God is telling you to do.

It means to ask God how he wants you to pray for someone

Jesus already taught us how to pray. He even gave us the pray. Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Are people sick in Heaven? If they were it would NOT be Heaven.

Are you a Hebrew slave, or a Christian child of God?

Close but no banana. Abraham had two sons. One with Sarah, the other with Hagar the bondwomen. His covenant with Ishmael is different from his covenant with Isaac. As gentiles we are adopted into the family of Abraham. As a branch from a wild tree grafted into a domesticated tree.

Which means we can ignore most of the threads on these forums

I do not pay any attention to them. The Holy Spirit is to be our teacher and out guide.

 

[charsan]

@joshua 1 9 I want to apologize to you. While I completely disagree with you I need not cause you bad feelings toward me I can only hope you forgive me

 

[joshua 1 9]

@joshua 1 9 I want to apologize to you. While I completely disagree with you I need not cause you bad feelings toward me I can only hope you forgive me

I think it is interesting. You think it is possible to live the life but you do not think God will heal us no matter how perfect we are. I have faith to believe that IF we did live the life He is calling us to life that we would be healed. But I really question if it is possible for us to life that life of "sinless perfection" that John Wesley use to preach about.

 

[Strong in Him]

Sounds like reading comprehension is not your strong point. The discussion here is what does the Bible says. As I told you before your personal attacks on me is a violation of the rules for this forum that you agreed to when you joined.

I said that that was what your post sounded like; I did not personally attack you. If you read it like that, I apologise. Even though, ironically, your rebuke came after a comment about my ability to read and comprehend, which sounds remarkably like a personal attack.

Actually he personally said it to you and me.

We weren't rescued from slavery in Egypt; we have been rescued from the slavery of sin and death by the Son of God, Jesus our healer. So praying that God will not inflict any of the illnesses that he inflicted on the Egyptians - around 4,000 years ago, seems a little unnecessary.

The issue is he was using language from his time and his day. This is why I study the ancient Hebrew letters, so I can better understand the Bible and the message there for us in our day and our generation.

One of the messages is that God heals.
We know this; it was confirmed, and demonstrated, by Jesus and the apostles.

At the time of Moses transportation was a camel. They were living in tents in the desert. Even the tabernacle where God dwelled in the Holy of Holys was a tent. Today we travel by Jet Airplanes. The Tabernacle was replaced with a temple. The home we live in is a lot more complex then the tents they lived in at the time Moses gave us the Torah. So we do need to take all of this into consideration. Esp how the langauge has evolved sense the day of Moses. I have been to Bible college so I do understand the rules for Bible interpertation. First we look at who the Bible was written for at the time. Then we look at what the message is for us in our generation.

I know.

God told the Hebrew people to remain faithful to him and keep his covenant, then he would bless them and they would not suffer any of the illnesses that the Egyptians had suffered. This is repeated throughout the OT - "if you obey me, I will bless you".
This is more or less what Jesus said, "if you love me you will keep my commandments", John 14:15; the NT also says that we love because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
In the OT the Hebrews were told to obey the covenant then they would be blessed. The lord often reminded them that it was he who had rescued them from Egypt, so you would have thought they would have wanted to obey their Saviour.
We love God because he first loved us, and showed it by sending the Lord Jesus who lay down his life for us - a new covenant made by God, Jeremiah 31:31-34, and sealed with the blood of his Son, Matthew 26:28.

We show our love for God by putting our faith into action; living our beliefs. God also wants us to be in a relationship with him - and when we are, we will find that we have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ. God also heals, and may grant us physical healing also.
All I'm saying is that physical healing is not guaranteed - we can't say to God, "I'm obeying you so you have to heal me."

The part you do not agree with is a direct quote from the Bible. So you disagree with what God is telling you to do.

No.
I agree that that is what God said to the Hebrew people. I don't agree that God is promising me that he will not put upon me any of the illnesses that the Egyptians suffered 4,000 years ago when Pharaoh had hardened his heart and was rebelling against God. What were those illnesses, incidentally? Do they even exist today?

Jesus already taught us how to pray. He even gave us the pray. Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Are people sick in Heaven? If they were it would NOT be Heaven.

No, there are no sick people in heaven. When we die we are perfectly healed, in body, mind and spirit.
That doesn't state that we are entitled to perfect physical health on earth.

Close but no banana. Abraham had two sons. One with Sarah, the other with Hagar the bondwomen. His covenant with Ishmael is different from his covenant with Isaac. As gentiles we are adopted into the family of Abraham.

I know.
We are still not Hebrew people who had just been rescued from slavery in Egypt; we are Christians who have been rescued from sin and death by God's Son.

The bottom line is, "why do we feel we can claim a promise that was given to someone else, for ourselves?" We live under a NEW Covenant; sealed by the One who heals. We pray for healing in HIS name. We keep his commands because he laid down his life for us, and love because he first loves us.

 

[Emsmom1]

I'm new to Christianity, but this sounds like a variation of the prosperity gospel. And anyway, what about Job?

 

[joshua 1 9]

what about Job?

The law of attraction people have a field day with Job. It turns out only one of his friends represented God, so maybe the lesson there is we have to be careful who we listen to. Even his wife acted like an unbeliever.

 

[charsan]

I think it is interesting. You think it is possible to live the life but you do not think God will heal us no matter how perfect we are. I have faith to believe that IF we did live the life He is calling us to life that we would be healed. But I really question if it is possible for us to life that life of "sinless perfection" that John Wesley use to preach about.

I never said God can't heal us, but it's a fantasy to think that you will never get sick because one is a Christian. I suffer from Cerbal Palsy, chronic cellulitis in my legs, lymphedema and other things but suffering is not a bad word and those who preach that we should all be healed instantly are preaching heresy. God heals how He wills not as we will. That is the problem with abandoning historic Christianity is that people come up with strange ideas like the book you talked about which lead us away from Christ

 

[joshua 1 9]

I never said God can't heal us, but it's a fantasy to think that you will never get sick because one is a Christian.

I am pretty sure I said that I believe that God heals us IF we can live a life of sinless perfection. Of course this is a double wammie because John Wesley's teaching of sinless perfection is not accepted outside of holiness teaching.

A long time ago I went to a healing seminar give by Francis McNutt (& Judith) His book was published in 1974. What he observed in his ministry was that healing can be gradual. Doctors do not always try to heal people, they just try to improve their condition or ease their suffering. We know that ultimately God is going to heal us. The question is when. I believe that if our life is getting better then we are walking with God. If our life is going from bad to worse then we are not walking with God. "evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived". (2Timothy 3:13)

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 cor 3:18)

If we are going from glory to glory and we are being changed into His image, then God is healing us. Even if healing is a process that happens over time. Not all Christians live a life of victory as a overcomer. Some die early and before their time. I have a daughter that never even made it to the womb. Yet I know a pastor that is 97 years old and I have a grandmother that lived to be 100. She had some mini strokes but for the most part she was pretty healthy all of her life.

My question then is: Are you trying to present a case that you are here on Earth to suffer so that you partake in the suffering of Christ so that you can receive a better resurrection? "others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection." (Hebrews 11:35) Because we get rewarded for works. This is not required or a condition of salvation.

 

[charsan]

My question then is: Are you trying to present a case that you are here on Earth to suffer so that you partake in the suffering of Christ so that you can receive a better resurrection? "others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection." (Hebrews 11:35) Because we get rewarded for works. This is not required or a condition of salvation.

Nope. I follow historic Traditional Christianity that evangelicals have abandoned. I don't follow every wind of doctrine that blows in the WOF and Evangelical movement because I know it's all stubble that needs to be burned up. eyes are stayed on Christ not on private interpretation of verses of which St. Peter says there is none. God has a plan for each of us, some suffer others do not and I know many that were not Christians that never had health problems.

Being Christian doesn't guarantee anyone anything but eternal life, God never promised a rose garden or an easy life.

 

[Guojing]

“If you diligently heed the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the LORD who heals you.” (Exodus 15:26)

We are told that Jesus: " is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises". (Hebrews 8:6) As I read this passage in Exodus I see four conditions: "diligently heed the voice of the LORD your God", "do what is right in His sight", "give ear to His commandments", "keep all His statutes".

Is this why people have so much of a problem to walk in health and to receive healing from God? We know God wants us to be healthy. It is not His desire that anyone is sick. Yet the conditions to be healed and to walk in health seem to be pretty strict.

We are told that God will NOT put the diseases that He "brought' upon the Egyptians. In the Hebrew the first letter of the word: "brought" indicates destruction or to destroy. The second letter water can be a destructive force. Yet the river of life is a life giving water that heals.

God intends to wash, cleanse and purify us or He intends to destroy those who do not want to live Right, Holy, Sanctified lives. "Just like clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel." (Jeremiah 18:6)

Interesting that, while you believe God still heals today, you would rather put yourself in Exodus, which was a covenant God made with the Jews.

Now we have Jesus, who took stripes for your healing, and ushered in a better covenant. If your salvation was only conditional upon you receiving it by faith, why would you think healing becomes conditional upon good works?

 

[Guojing]

Nope. I follow historic Traditional Christianity that evangelicals have abandoned. I don't follow every wind of doctrine that blows in the WOF and Evangelical movement because I know it's all stubble that needs to be burned up. eyes are stayed on Christ not on private interpretation of verses of which St. Peter says there is none. God has a plan for each of us, some suffer others do not and I know many that were not Christians that never had health problems.

Being Christian doesn't guarantee anyone anything but eternal life, God never promised a rose garden or an easy life.

It is generally easier for most Christians to believe in eternal life when they accept Jesus. It cannot be seen nor verified.

But for physical healing, our natural eyes can see and thus, when we don't see it, we become tempted to conclude that what the Bible said must not be true.

Jesus said it wisely in the 4 Gospels when he asked "Which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or rise get up and walk?"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is generally easier for most Christians to believe in eternal life when they accept Jesus. It cannot be seen nor verified.

But for physical healing, our natural eyes can see and thus, when we don't see it, we become tempted to conclude that what the Bible said must not be true.

Jesus said it wisely in the 4 Gospels when he asked "Which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or rise get up and walk?"

Thus the deceiver, the father of lies, does a lot of work to prevent anyone from seeing Jesus heal, or even to see how easy it is to heal when the truth is known, naturally.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Being Christian doesn't guarantee anyone anything but eternal life, God never promised a rose garden or an easy life.

Really?
What is written about the Ekklesia having CONTINUAL
righteousness, peace and joy, and walking daily
in union with Jesus ?

 

[charsan]

Really?
What is written about the Ekklesia having CONTINUAL
righteousness, peace and joy, and walking daily
in union with Jesus ?

Where is it written everything will come up as roses?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating ...
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 32:17 The work of righteousness will be peace; the service of righteousness will be quiet confidence forever. Romans 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you believe in Him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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BibleGateway - : righteousness, peace and joy
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=righteousness,+peace+and+joy&qs_version=KJV
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
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Acts 13:52,Romans 14:17 NASB - And the disciples were ...

https://www.biblegateway.com › passage
And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. ... is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

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Philippians 4:4-7 New Living Translation (NLT)
4 Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! 5 Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon.a]">[a]

6 Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. 7 Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

Footnotes:

1. 4:5 Greek the Lord is near.

New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
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John 14-17 NIV - Jesus Comforts His Disciples - “Do - Bible ...

https://www.biblegateway.com › passage
Jesus Comforts His Disciples - “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; ... 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to ... 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.
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[charsan]

Does not say everything will come up as roses. You see that kind of thing of yanking verses out of context is how heresy develops and in point never answers the question. So where does it say that everything will always be wonderful? Nowhere at all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Galatians 5:17 - Blue Letter Bible

https://www.blueletterbible.org › kjv › gal
Gal 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,.

(circumstances do not change the fruit of the Spirit)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1 Peter 1:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,

New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.