No such thing in scripture as 3 compartments of hell

[BobRyan]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this

until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise.

Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response

until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise. The other two compartments are called the place of torments and Tartarus.

As I have said elsewhere

if you read the Bible 100 times you will never find that hell has a compartment in it called "Paradise" or that Paradise is one of the compartments in hell, or that Paradise is the first compartment of hell or any such thing as that in scripture.

Now my statement is pretty well a blanket statement covering all of scripture -- so I am making it as easy as could possibly be for someone who actually has such a text to prove that I am mistaken.

1. Neither Eph 4 nor Hebrews 2 mention "Abraham's bosom"
2. No text says "Abraham's bosom is a prison"
3. No text says "the devil is/was in charge of Abraham's bosom"
4. Some people say good angels carry the dead saints to a place (Abraham's bosom) where the devil is/was in charge of holding them as prisoners. I find that logic "illusive".
5. By contrast in Luke 16 Abraham actually says (emphasized because "places" do not "speak" much less participate in Q&A conversations) that Lazarus had bad things in life - but here with Abraham he has his good reward and is being "comforted" for all the suffering he had while living on Earth -- i.e. good things and not "prison". Not "imprisonment by the devil" or any such thing.

And yet some say "Abraham’s bosom was a prison where the devil kept them against their wills Hebrews 2:14-15; Ephesians 4:7-11."

No wonder so many Bible scholars freely admit that it is a parable!!

The term "Abraham's bosom" is only mentioned one place in scripture - and that is in Luke 16 so no need to search all over NT and OT for texts that don't mention it -- we can already see that.

"paradise" is only found in three texts in all of scripture, Luke 23, 2 Cor 12, Rev 2 -- so here again a very easy subject to research.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

It is probably "easy" to argue with, because so many traditions have completely replaced the truth of Scripture, so people by far have been taken in by errors, and don't care to fight against their popular system to find the truth.

 

[vinsight4u]

What do you think of when Jesus Christ told the one thief by Him that
today -he would be with Him in paradise?

 

[sdowney717]

Until Christ ascended, no man had gone into heaven so where did they go when they died....
John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

 

[eleos1954]

What do you think of when Jesus Christ told the one thief by Him that
today -he would be with Him in paradise?

We have the books of Acts ... Jesus himself didn't go anywhere until 40 days later .... when he ascended to the Father in heaven.

Acts 1

3 After His suffering, He (Jesus) presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

 

[sdowney717]

The story of Abraham's bosom was no parable. And the place of the dead before Christ's resurrection was hell, sheol and why not divided into 2 parts, paradise and fiery torments. I don't see any where three parts is said by scripture. Christ led the captivity captive when He ascended. Christ also went to Hell and preached their to the spirits imprisoned. Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth, into the ABYSS when He died and that is the underworld of hell.

Romans 10:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[eleos1954]

Go back and look at how He could not be touched, as He had not yet ascended to
the Father.
Later - He can be touched.

even by the apostle Thomas

didn't want Mary holding on to him .... so ????

 

[BobRyan]

What do you think of when Jesus Christ told the one thief by Him that
today -he would be with Him in paradise?

1. Well even that does not say "and paradise is of course - in hell".
2. The thief's question and the answer are in the same context
"Lord remember me WHEN you come in your kingdom"... and the answer "truly I say unto you today - you SHALL be with Me in paradise".

 

[BobRyan]

Until Christ ascended, no man had gone into heaven so where did they go when they died....
John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

No one ascends into heaven when they die today or before the cross -- only God the Son had that power and so He did 40 days after His resurrection. Whether it is Elijah or Enoch being taken by God to heaven before the cross - it is still not a case of them by their own power or goodness ascending into heaven - rather it is God Himself having that power.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe that it was Noah that preached to the spirits long ago, that then were
in prison/ hell. It is this same spirit -it is what it is showing.

1 Peter 3 not "THEN in prison" but "NOW in prison"

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, (NASB)

 

[BobRyan]

The story of Abraham's bosom was no parable. And the place of the dead before Christ's resurrection was hell, sheol and why not divided into 2 parts, paradise and fiery torments. .

And "why not" have paradise in hell even though no text says paradise is in hell? That's the question??

 

[SkyWriting]

What do you think of when Jesus Christ told the one thief by Him that today -he would be with Him in paradise?

There is no time after death.

 

[sdowney717]

1 Peter 3 not "THEN in prison" but "NOW in prison"

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, (NASB)

There is no soul sleep or nothingness after physical death. People have a spirit, most certainly that spirit lives to God as Jesus said all live to Him.
Luke 20:37-38 New King James Version (NKJV)
37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’

38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

And also, all are raised, some to eternal life, some to eternal condemnation. Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BobRyan]

There is no soul sleep or nothingness after physical death.

Well I won't argue "what there is not" but I will point out "What there is"

What there is - is 1 Thess 4.

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

What there is - is John 11
11 This He said, and after that He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. 14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 20:37-38 New King James Version (NKJV)
37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

And also, all are raised, some to eternal life, some to eternal condemnation. Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life.

Jesus was not proving a "living dead" argument to the Sadducees He was proving "future resurrection" as the only solution to the problem He gave them.

Matt 22
23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.’ 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 Last of all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. 34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together.

Jesus "silenced the pharisees" by two irrefutable arguments.
1. God is not the God of the dead.
2. He said "I AM the God of Abraham" when speaking to Moses.
Thus the only solution was "future resurrection".

God calls Abraham a father of many nations while as yet no nations are from Abraham - God sees the future.

Rom 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;