What makes Christianity convincing for you personally?

ChristopherHays

Active Member
Sep 19, 2019
180
86
27
Los Angeles
✟13,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Likewise a Jewish author who survived the holocaust.... he wrote that he rejected the Jesus of the Christians/Christendom because they had so much wrong and contrary to known Scripture (that the Jews were given by Yahuweh). When someone , an old man in the mountains, told him the truth finally, with and from all Scripture, about the TRUE JESUS, the Scriptural Jesus , and Wurmbrand saw that the old man was living the same truth, and telling the truth, Wurmbrand believed and was immersed in Jesus and was saved.

It must be much easier to accept Christianity if you already accept the Old Testament. Most of my issues with the Bible are found in the old. The New Testament is much less questionable.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Yahuweh knows perfectly all of our pain, sorrow, grief and loss.

(fyi, a lot of the troubles you mention are man made and propagated on purpose , needlessly. (we can't go into that on this site/ forum) )

It is acknowledged though, that all the troubles, sickness, and death is because of the root cause : sin.

The only remedy for sin is Jesus' Blood.

Never once does it make it clear that a child that dies will make it to heaven.
Correct. A lot of tradition tries to make it so, but fails miserably. God never says so about children, especially unclean children.
We’re left guessing and hoping because that’s all we have left...
No. No guessing. No, that's not all we have left, if Yahuweh grants us the truth as He Promises.
but no comfort ever comes from God.
Every good gift comes from the Father in heaven. Comfort I think was already posted , maybe it was another thread ? >>
Matthew 11:28-30 MSG - "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out ...
[Search domain www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew 11:28-30&version=MSG] Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 1 - New International Version 11:28-30&version=MSG
28-30 "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.

===========================
Losing internet access now. Yahuweh Willing will be alive and back 2nd day next week.
Shalom to you and your household today.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
It must be much easier to accept Christianity if you already accept the Old Testament. Most of my issues with the Bible are found in the old. The New Testament is much less questionable.
Everyone who trusts in the Father has all of their questions answered, or find them no longer important.
All of the problems are from false teachers, false doctrines, and so on....

Everyone who seeks the truth, and keeps seeking the truth, trusting in the Creator, finds the truth, and the truth sets us free. (from all deception)
 
Upvote 0

ChristopherHays

Active Member
Sep 19, 2019
180
86
27
Los Angeles
✟13,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Yahuweh knows perfectly all of our pain, sorrow, grief and loss.

(fyi, a lot of the troubles you mention are man made and propagated on purpose , needlessly. (we can't go into that on this site/ forum) )

It is acknowledged though, that all the troubles, sickness, and death is because of the root cause : sin.

The only remedy for sin is Jesus' Blood.


Correct. A lot of tradition tries to make it so, but fails miserably. God never says so about children, especially unclean children.

No. No guessing. No, that's not all we have left, if Yahuweh grants us the truth as He Promises.

Every good gift comes from the Father in heaven. Comfort I think was already posted , maybe it was another thread ? >>
Matthew 11:28-30 MSG - "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out ...
[Search domain www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew 11:28-30&version=MSG] Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 1 - New International Version 11:28-30&version=MSG
28-30 "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.

===========================
Losing internet access now. Yahuweh Willing will be alive and back 2nd day next week.
Shalom to you and your household today.


What good is it if god can sympathize with our pain if he doesn’t ever relieve it?

Are you goin to tell me it’s my parents or grandparents fault that their children died? If you’re referring to incest than I might bring up some Bible stories you may find interesting... my family and ancestors didn’t cause those babies to die, and I forcefully reject any implications that drug abuse, self harm, incest etc. were contributing factors. God created humans to give birth in such a way that things go horribly wrong sometimes.

What sin did those children commit? And what the hell is an “unclean baby”????

I’m afraid you don’t have any better answers than us atheists. People suffer and die and your bible tells you not to even question why (Job). At least I’m free to seek answers wherever they’re found. I don’t have to keep crawling to the invisible puppet master just to find out he’s still silent.
 
Upvote 0

ChristopherHays

Active Member
Sep 19, 2019
180
86
27
Los Angeles
✟13,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Everyone who trusts in the Father has all of their questions answered, or find them no longer important. (from all deception)

I don’t think Christians can answer any of the questions. I’m sorry but I think it’s “important” if children go to hell. I think it’s “important” to understand suffering. I have 100 questions that Christians have told me ‘we'll find out when we die.’ I’m sorry but these questions are only relevant on this side of the tunnel. I can’t accept Christianity if it can’t answer my questions.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,236
25
USA
✟231,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
God also commands the people to test him in Malachi 3:10. There are dozens of verses that say to rely and trust the promises of God. These snake handlers think they’re showing their faith by trusting in Jesus’ promise that “poison will by no means harm them”
Yes, that verse is talk to them, we don't do what it was said in Malachi.

Satan also quoted Scripture to tempt the Lord Christ so showing me a verse does not convince me.
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
I went to church 3 times a week for the first 22 years of my life. Now at 23, I consider myself an atheist. However, I like to think I’m still open minded. I’d like to know what makes Christianity convincing to you?

I grew up in the Church and read the Bible through, but I never received an answer to prayer for 30 years. So I never knew that I knew for sure, but thought it was a good idea in case it was true.

Long story short, one night God spoke to me and I saw a vision. I was shocked. I never doubted again, and guess what? Since then 100% of my prayers are answered.
 
Upvote 0

ChristopherHays

Active Member
Sep 19, 2019
180
86
27
Los Angeles
✟13,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I grew up in the Church and read the Bible through, but I never received an answer to prayer for 30 years. So I never knew that I knew for sure, but thought it was a good idea in case it was true.

Long story short, one night God spoke to me and I saw a vision. I was shocked. I never doubted again, and guess what? Since then 100% of my prayers are answered.

Please pray for me to have a vision too. I’ve prayed many times just to feel gods presence and my prayers have never been answered. None of that would matter if I had a personal experience.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Chris V++
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Please pray for me to have a vision too. I’ve prayed many times just to feel gods presence and my prayers have never been answered. None of that would matter if I had a personal experience.

I understand. I'm going to send you my testimony in hopes something speaks to you.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,315
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,965.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
However, I like to think I’m still open minded. I’d like to know what makes Christianity convincing to you?

Most of my reasons are personal rather than some kind of logic or other reasoning. In terms of Intellectual reasons for an atheist I think Hugh Ross presents the best evidence for Christianity with his ""Reasons to Believe" web site and You-tube videos. He is an astrophysicist by trade and very very smart. Unlike most Christians he was raised a agnostic and converted because of his intense study of both science at a young age and later a study of World Religions.


Ross answers my intellectual questions concerning how Christianity fits into the natural world. I am an Old Earth Creationist and believe that actually fits the scientific data of the fossil record the best, and other information that we know about the Earth and the Cosmos better than evolution, and by extension atheism which usually assumes that.


But that really isn't my reason for being a Christian

1) I know I am a better person as a Christian. I got extra incentive for being honorable and ethical, and more importantly being merciful with people (not getting revenge) etc. I spent my college years as an agnostic. I was pretty well behaved in those years. Social psychology gave me some reason to pursue ethical behavior with laws like reciprocity etc. ,but I wasn't as conscientious as I am now, I also sort of reserved the right to potentially get even in the case I was ever really wronged in a bad way (If such a thing could be done in a way that would not get me in trouble with the law etc.). Anyway I have pretty much given up on that "Because Jesus wouldn't like it" and you atheists should be glad that is the case, and doubly so if you ever were to be the cause of my pain.


2) Their are other utilitarian reasons for being a Christian. And I actually do see that as a Biblical reason, the Bible does talk about "the fruit" of things, and even science and other fields of study are interested in results that can be measured etc.

A)I have less worry in my life due to my Christianity and that makes life better.

B) I see much advice in Christianity mirrors Stoicism (Stoicism is known for both its mental health benefits but also its good advice used for success coaching etc. like the link below).


C) I am a bit of mystic and well I find chanting and other devotions beneficial. Some people pay good money for things like hypnotherapy or taking classes in meditation, biofeedback etc. but I got a lot of those benefits for free that are baked into my Eastern Christian mystical tradition by just listening to some chanting on You-tube or maybe on one of my CDs and praying.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,631
1,444
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟685,040.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Please pray for me to have a vision too. I’ve prayed many times just to feel gods presence and my prayers have never been answered. None of that would matter if I had a personal experience.
I pray that He will orchestrate events around your to reveal Himself to you extravagantly in very personal and specific ways so that you will never be concerned with doubt. He does that sort of thing all the time.

In Matthew 7 Jesus is quoted as saying:

'7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8For every one that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened.'


 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,583
26,993
Pacific Northwest
✟736,266.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I went to church 3 times a week for the first 22 years of my life. Now at 23, I consider myself an atheist. However, I like to think I’m still open minded. I’d like to know what makes Christianity convincing to you?

The Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,583
26,993
Pacific Northwest
✟736,266.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
What about the gospel is convincing?

Let me first say that my answer wasn't intended to be an argument, simply the answer to the question of what is personally convincing.

With that said:

That God is the One who makes Himself known in and through Jesus, who offers Himself freely, in love, to the world. God's response to evil people, even the very people who would crucify Him, is mercy, forgiveness, and love.

To quote St. Paul, "in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself". The Gospel is the peace of God toward a world that is hostile. A world whose response to peace is violence, whose response to love is hate--God self-offering of Himself is the self-offering of Himself in weakness, suffering, and cross.

The Gospel tells me who God is.
The Gospel proclaims life in the face of death.
The cross is paradoxically the defeat of violence, the undermining of power, and victory over death. Because the Crucified rose from the dead.

I don't know how else I could honestly answer the question. I don't have some rational argument. Nor do I think that having a rational argument would matter in the long run. If anything the Gospel is quite unreasonable.

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strathos
Upvote 0

Tinker Grey

Wanderer
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2002
11,246
5,643
Erewhon
Visit site
✟941,420.00
Faith
Atheist
Let me first say that my answer wasn't intended to be an argument, simply the answer to the question of what is personally convincing.

With that said:

That God is the One who makes Himself known in and through Jesus, who offers Himself freely, in love, to the world. God's response to evil people, even the very people who would crucify Him, is mercy, forgiveness, and love.

To quote St. Paul, "in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself". The Gospel is the peace of God toward a world that is hostile. A world whose response to peace is violence, whose response to love is hate--God self-offering of Himself is the self-offering of Himself in weakness, suffering, and cross.

The Gospel tells me who God is.
The Gospel proclaims life in the face of death.
The cross is paradoxically the defeat of violence, the undermining of power, and victory over death. Because the Crucified rose from the dead.

I don't know how else I could honestly answer the question. I don't have some rational argument. Nor do I think that having a rational argument would matter in the long run. If anything the Gospel is quite unreasonable.

-CryptoLutheran
I appreciate your honesty.

I wonder why you would believe something "quite unreasonable". The unreasonableness is a significant contribution to me thinking it unconvincing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,583
26,993
Pacific Northwest
✟736,266.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I appreciate your honesty.

I wonder why you would believe something "quite unreasonable". The unreasonableness is a significant contribution to me thinking it unconvincing.

Theologically speaking I believe faith (rather specifically faith in Christ and the Gospel) is something which (to use an expression from my own Lutheran tradition) comes extra nos, from outside ourselves. It's not a property of the intellect, or an innate power of man. It is something foreign and alien and which is received, passively, as pure gift--grace.

But that's the theological answer, which by its nature is really only meaningful within the context of Christian theology. Without that context, and if one doesn't subscribe to any of it, it's just going to come across as fairly meaningless.

A non-theological answer, insofar as one is even possible, may simply be this: I don't think reason is an all-sufficient means of validating human experience. Reason is a product of the thinking [human] mind, utilizing rules of logic, making application of empirical observation, and producing falsifiable statements about the world we experience and observe. All of which is very good for what it does. It's why I accept the scientific method, and think rules of logic should be applied to discourse. But it is also all very limited to the human perception of the external world and our own self-reflection (i.e. our own thoughts, our thinking about thinking, etc). So:

1) Is the external world which we perceive and experience all there is?
2) Are the rules of thinking which we apply to that world all there is?

Or perhaps more fundamentally: Can there be truth apart from the observable external world and the logically self-consistent rational internal world of the mind?

I think how we answer that sort of question ultimately is going to stem from our own biases and beliefs, regardless of which side one comes down on.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I went to church 3 times a week for the first 22 years of my life. Now at 23, I consider myself an atheist. However, I like to think I’m still open minded. I’d like to know what makes Christianity convincing to you?
Experiencing the Holy Spirit and experiencing spiritual attack...these things are more convincing on a soul level than all the intellectual arguments anyone can make. Also, when God speaks to you in your language it's an amazing thing that isn't easy to explain away.
 
Upvote 0

Tinker Grey

Wanderer
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2002
11,246
5,643
Erewhon
Visit site
✟941,420.00
Faith
Atheist
Theologically speaking I believe faith (rather specifically faith in Christ and the Gospel) is something which (to use an expression from my own Lutheran tradition) comes extra nos, from outside ourselves. It's not a property of the intellect, or an innate power of man. It is something foreign and alien and which is received, passively, as pure gift--grace.

But that's the theological answer, which by its nature is really only meaningful within the context of Christian theology. Without that context, and if one doesn't subscribe to any of it, it's just going to come across as fairly meaningless.
No argument.

A non-theological answer, insofar as one is even possible, may simply be this: I don't think reason is an all-sufficient means of validating human experience. Reason is a product of the thinking [human] mind, utilizing rules of logic, making application of empirical observation, and producing falsifiable statements about the world we experience and observe. All of which is very good for what it does. It's why I accept the scientific method, and think rules of logic should be applied to discourse. But it is also all very limited to the human perception of the external world and our own self-reflection (i.e. our own thoughts, our thinking about thinking, etc). So:

1) Is the external world which we perceive and experience all there is?
2) Are the rules of thinking which we apply to that world all there is?
By what reason (*cough*) should we suppose there is anything else?

Or perhaps more fundamentally: Can there be truth apart from the observable external world and the logically self-consistent rational internal world of the mind?

I think how we answer that sort of question ultimately is going to stem from our own biases and beliefs, regardless of which side one comes down on.

-CryptoLutheran
Perhaps that is true. I wonder though how one justifies the idea that "there is something else" when no method of measuring such a thing exists.

You'll forgive me, I hope, but your post sounds a lot like "This is my religion therefore I believe it." If you are convinced, it sounds like you just want to be. Please, please elaborate if this is not the case.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,583
26,993
Pacific Northwest
✟736,266.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No argument.

By what reason (*cough*) should we suppose there is anything else?

Or perhaps more fundamentally: Can there be truth apart from the observable external world and the logically self-consistent rational internal world of the mind?

Perhaps that is true. I wonder though how one justifies the idea that "there is something else" when no method of measuring such a thing exists.

You'll forgive me, I hope, but your post sounds a lot like "This is my religion therefore I believe it." If you are convinced, it sounds like you just want to be. Please, please elaborate if this is not the case.

I was intentionally leaving the question open-ended, largely, because I don't think this is an affirmative argument. But rather because I think it is an open-ended question--something worthy to ponder, but which does not have a concrete answer. Hence, I think, how we respond to the question ultimately depends upon our own individual biases and beliefs. It's not something that can be answered in the definitive, as though there were an empirical answer.

I suspect you may be at least partly correct when you say that it is my religion, therefore I believe it. Or, at the very least that is almost certainly how it will always appear to the one standing on the outside--and thus can't find fault with it.

That isn't, however, quite the full picture for the person standing within; perhaps it is delusion, perhaps it is mere cognitive dissonance, but from my vantage point it is not mere will to believe it is so. I don't think that explaining the experience is going to make much sense, but there is something deeply extrinsic about it--at least within the experience of faith. This may not, in fact, correspond to objective reality and may simply be mental delusion; but the experience remains, and largely remains inexplicable to the one experiencing it. That is a lot of wordiness (perhaps needlessly so, but I am aiming for precision in language) to state that beyond reason there is, or seems to be, a something. A something which is compelling, more than mere wishing, but compelling. Closer to drive or instinct. I believe in spite of myself, I believe in spite of my own will.

I regard that external-compelling-something to ultimately be Divine. The working of God which creates faith.

Maybe there's nothing at all. Maybe it's all delusion, a form of cognitive dissonance--wanting to neither abandon rational thought nor the irrational faith. It's all in my head, and I've simply been primed by environment and there's nothing more to it. I'm not going to begrudge someone who regards this to be the case.

Neither am I going to attempt to use my experience to try to argue another person into faith; not only because of the inherent contradictory nature of trying to use argumentation to argue the unarguable but also because core to what I believe is that faith is something extra nos, from outside ourselves. Faith is, as St. Paul says in his epistle to the Ephesians, a gift of divine grace apart from ourselves. More simply, as a Lutheran I believe it is impossible to believe apart from the external working of God to create faith; and thus it is neither in my ability, nor my responsibility, to make converts--for that's not possible. I can speak boldly about what I believe, but I cannot make another believe. I only bring this up because I usually anticipate the question, "Why then do you try and convert others?" Or similar sorts of questions. Since most people are more familiar with Evangelical Protestantism, which borne from the Revivalist traditions of the 19th century and the "New Measures" approach of people like Charles Finney, promotes certain strategies in order to try and win converts.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tinker Grey

Wanderer
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2002
11,246
5,643
Erewhon
Visit site
✟941,420.00
Faith
Atheist
*snip*

-CryptoLutheran

I don't know if you remember my history here at CF. I was a Christian from the time I joined in 2002 until 2008. I believe it was this forum that I once stated something like "I believe because I can't not believe." Ultimately, of course, I was wrong.

Something of what you said reminds me of CS Lewis' statement that aliens might have a certain perspective on our lives but *we* have the inside track. I believe this is from Mere Christianity. But Lewis is wrong. Objectivity is desirable because at least in the attempt of objectivity we attempt to subtract bias from what we are seeing. Stepping outside our beliefs to evaluate them as if we didn't already believe them is essential to understanding what is true.

Sure, I may have been wrong in my evaluation of my faith, but I could not conclude that Christianity was supportable. Believing because I had always believed was not enough; believing because I was part of a community that held those beliefs was not enough; the idea that I was closing in on a coherent internally consistent theology was not enough. There was no support external to myself for my beliefs. It is not enough.

I held on to the idea of God communicating directly to me. But, too, the voices in my head I had to acknowledge were just me.

May you continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
 
Upvote 0