Ruining the Earth.

[GingerBeer]

2) Spiritually there is an idolatry of Nature

Idolatry means that one has an idol that is worshipped as a god. Who worships nature as a god among the people who write and speak about the danger associated with climate changes?

 

[GingerBeer]

Greta Thunberg To Poor Countries: Drop Dead | Ryan McMaken

Greta Thunberg is 16 years old and, it is reported, has some degree of Asperger's syndrome so picking on her is a little low of Ryan McMaken (whoever he is).

It would be far better to examine Greta Thunberg's speech and consider the contents taking into account her age and condition. Is what she asserted backed up by reliable and expert sources? Is her claim that the dangers associated with climate changes may include mass extinctions, rising sea levels, and serious weather and storms that will harm towns and cities as well as farming? If that is so then she is not saying "drop dead" to poor countries. In fact claiming that she said any such things is absurd.

 

[joshua 1 9]

This could force us to begin the literal fulfillment of
Isaiah 35

Yes you are on the right track. In Genesis 1:2 we see the words Formless & Void. We see the word : Void in two other passages: Isaiah 34:11 & Jeremiah 4:23 So Isaiah chapters 34 & 35 are very important in regards to all of this.

This state of being formless and void is a universal archetype. We see this at the break up of Pangaea when the dinosaurs were destroyed. We see this 12,990 thousand years ago when the era that we live in began. Just as we see this in Isaiah 34:11 when the "Jewish" nation was in a state of ruin.

If we do not understand what is going on in Genesis 1:2 then we are not going to understand what is going on in the world today. In the same way if we do not understand what is going on in Isaiah 35 then we are not going to understand what is going on today for us here in this country.

Again IF we do not understand Genesis 1:2 then we are not going to understand what is going on in the world today. We will have a time of ruin and then we will have a new beginning, a new day. When God will once again restore the earth as you tell us in Isaiah 35 when: "The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose."

Even we see that in Israel today where the desert is beginning to blossom as the rose. Just as we are told was going to happen. This is why some people believe the church age has already ended and the Kingdom age has already begun.

God declares the end from the beginning. So the beginning is very important. The end is followed by a new beginning. One age has to end for a new age to begin. We do read about this in Isaiah 34 & 35.

"He shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness." Isaiah 34:11b

 

[Aussie Pete]

The previous drought ended in 2103 and we are in another and deeper drought now. Rainfall continues to fall because we don't get any rain from low pressure systems over the southern states.

So why have the low pressure systems that used to give us rain, disappeared altogether?

What changed was the low pressure systems are contracting, further and further south, and away from the Australian continent. You can visually confirm this by observing weather maps from the sixties, seventies, and eighties. Compared to weather maps from the last twenty years.

So droughts must become more severe over time. Even the heavy monsoonal rainfall up north is also in serious decline.

God spoke in the beginning, has been talking through earth's history and will speak at the end. So it is not true that God has the last word.

I would not regard that as an accurate statement certainly not supported by any department of meteorology.

I probably would be hesitant to even refer to the present weather event as a drought. As droughts break but rainfall is declining and this drought is more of a permanent phenomenon.

Unconnected events.

The church was declining way before the Toronto blessing, the church decline is accelerating.

That is correct.

The Toronto Blessing is a symptom of the decline of the church. If Christians were alive, they would never have fallen for it.
As for the weather, "God settles the lonely in families; He leads the prisoners out to prosperity, but the rebellious dwell in a sun-scorched land."
I am aware of the mechanics of the change in weather patterns. I've lived in Victoria since 1974. There has always been a cycle of drought and rain, but this current nation-wide drought is extreme indeed. We've had some relief in southern Victoria. It's still below average. The north of the state is still very dry.
My observations are that the Church started into decline in the mid 1970's. I don't think my moving to Melbourne caused this. (j/k).

I doubt that the BOM has records going back 800 years so I'm not sure that they would be an authoritative source of information. I did some digging and the claim is made by Melbourne Uni.

 

[Cis.jd]

People are worried about climate change and rising oceans. The ice caps are melting. Summers are hotter. Storms are stronger. Do the scriptures give any indication of why this is so? Is there anything people can do about it?

(Revelation of John 11:18) The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.

What the scriptures "says" shouldn't be of any basis here. The Bible itself has made it clear that it does not contain everything. There are circumstances, understanding and discovery that did not exist in during the time of it's writings and the Bible is not to be made as a book that tells you the future. Many people have made claims about Bible prophecies and each and everyone of them where not just silly but wrong. It did nothing but give a false guise to Christianity.

So in regards to "is climate change real", any dispute that is "well the Bible doesn't say this" has to be ignored and shelved in the "Silly Section of Arguments".

 

[joshua 1 9]

The divine mandate given in Genesis is that we should take care of the planet not exploit it and the animals for our selfish gain.

As they say: God will destroy those who destroy the Earth. This is a time of testing for each individual.

 

[Christ is Lord]

As they say: God will destroy those who destroy the Earth. This is a time of testing for each individual.

Exactly, I don’t know why some people (Christians) in particular think that being concerned about the environment makes you a fanatic or you’re practicing nature worship.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Greta Thunberg is 16 years old and, it is reported, has some degree of Asperger's syndrome so picking on her is a little low of Ryan McMaken (whoever he is).

It would be far better to examine Greta Thunberg's speech and consider the contents taking into account her age and condition. Is what she asserted backed up by reliable and expert sources? Is her claim that the dangers associated with climate changes may include mass extinctions, rising sea levels, and serious weather and storms that will harm towns and cities as well as farming? If that is so then she is not saying "drop dead" to poor countries. In fact claiming that she said any such things is absurd.

Opinion: On climate change, humanity is not ‘evil’

Today, despite rising temperatures but because of less poverty and more resilience, droughts, floods, hurricanes and extreme temperatures kill just 20,000 people each year – a reduction of 95 per cent. That is a morally commendable achievement.​

 

[Christ is Lord]

Idolatry means that one has an idol that is worshipped as a god. Who worships nature as a god among the people who write and speak about the danger associated with climate changes?

That’s the line a I’ve seen a lot of Christians use. Concern for the environment doesn’t automatically mean you’re worshipping nature.

 

[Erik Nelson]

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Toronto Blessing is a symptom of the decline of the church.

I was a part of a Charismatic Episcopal Church that got involved in the Toronto Blessing. I left because I was under a gag order and not allowed to say anything. Just sit there and keep quiet and do not ask any questions. They ended up leaving the Episcopal Church. It started with a church that owned their own building. But other churches I had been a part of had to leave their building because they belonged to the Episcopal Church. So they had to go back and start all over again at the beginning to buy a new building to assemble in. It was interesting the people they appointed to be the Bishop of this new denomination.

 

[Christ is Lord]

Opinion: On climate change, humanity is not ‘evil’

Today, despite rising temperatures but because of less poverty and more resilience, droughts, floods, hurricanes and extreme temperatures kill just 20,000 people each year – a reduction of 95 per cent. That is a morally commendable achievement.​

Death is one thing but what about the damage to property as a result?

 

[Erik Nelson]

That’s the line a I’ve seen a lot of Christians use. Concern for the environment doesn’t automatically mean you’re worshipping nature.

what's wrong with economic growth (which requires energy consumption growth) ?

 

[Christ is Lord]

what's wrong with economic growth (which requires energy consumption growth) ?

I never said nothing is wrong with energy consumption. Climate change aside changing to more renewable forms of energy is a strategic thing to do.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Death is one thing but what about the damage to property as a result?

Even if it's higher, all the survivors can recover more quickly, being in more developed (and energy intensive) economies with higher incomes & standards of living

no developing nations want to choke their economic growth, and they're generally more equatorially located, with more tropical climates, on the frontlines of any changes

 

[Erik Nelson]

I never said nothing is wrong with energy consumption. Climate change aside changing to more renewable forms of energy is a strategic thing to do.

or carbon-free nuclear ?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Exactly, I don’t know why some people (Christians) in particular think that being concerned about the environment makes you a fanatic or you’re practicing nature worship.

There is not a lot we can do. Other then to make a few token attempts. I eat organic and I try to avoid fertilizer and weed killer because of the damage that does. I even quit driving my car. I believe organic food is better for the environment.

 

[Erik Nelson]

 

[GingerBeer]

So in regards to "is climate change real", any dispute that is "well the Bible doesn't say this" has to be ignored and shelved in the "Silly Section of Arguments".

I am not sure why you say what's in the quote above.

Scripture doesn't have to cover everything in order to say something about matters that we can see around us today. Scripture doesn't have to predict the specifics of our age in order to say something useful for us in this age. I gave a quote from Revelation 11:18. It isn't specifically about climate change and it may not be about things happening today but it does indicate that God intends to judge the world and he will "bring to ruin those ruining the Earth". What that implies about climate change is anybody's guess but it does appear to point to God's intention to condemn those who destroy (corrupt if you like or ruin if you prefer) the Earth. There are other passages that appear to imply that treating the world in which we live with care and respect is a good thing and that laying waste to it is not good.

 

[miggles]

the problem is not climate change but trophy hunting and littering. fix those and the earth will be fine.