Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

[Daniel C]

Yes He said so in verse 1

You think Jesus is a literal vine,not a man?

And the people spoken about in the parable are foliage?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Isn't this a contradiction? When you are saved you become a good servant, but when a saved person notice being a bad servant he/she gets convicted by the Spirit. Then you can be saved yet be a bad servant, a convicted bad servant?

I guess that is what people say all the time about the bible. If it sounds contradictory, that is not my intent. Simply, if a person is saved and is filled with the Holy Spirit, they strive to be a good servant. If a person is not saved, they could care less about being a good servant. A Christian is directed daily in the path of good servitude through the power of the Holy Spirit. A non-believer does not know what direction to go in.
James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

So back to your question, "Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?
Answer- When you are saved, you become a good servant.

 

[Daniel C]

I guess that is what people say all the time about the bible. If it sounds contradictory, that is not my intent. Simply, if a person is saved and is filled with the Holy Spirit, they strive to be a good servant. If a person is not saved, they could care less about being a good servant. A Christian is directed daily in the path of good servitude through the power of the Holy Spirit. A non-believer does not know what direction to go in.
James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Actually my dear it's the people who believe in works salvation who are frequently unsaved-by their own admission.

How can you be saved if your salvation can be cut off at anytime?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Those believers who choose to act in accord with His will are good servants.

Yes, they are believers not non-believers. The OP asks the question if good servitude is required before salvation. I am simply pointing out that our salvation produces the good servant.
Blessings

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Actually my dear it's the people who believe in works salvation who are frequently unsaved-by their own admission.

How can you be saved if your salvation can be cut off at anytime?

Works salvation is not Christianity. It is the opposite. Christianity is salvation which shows through the fruit of the believer. Salvation is never taken away. People choose to walk away.
Blessings

 

[Daniel C]

Works salvation is not Christianity. It is the opposite. Christianity is salvation which shows through the fruit of the believer. Salvation is never taken away. People choose to walk away.
Blessings

Well you're right about Christianity not being works salvation. It's by faith.

I don't believe a saved person can "walk away" or abandon the faith after they are saved. Even if they wanted to, Gods will is stronger and won't let them:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one."

So Jesus is telling us after we are saved we won't walk away, because no-one can take the saved from him.

 

[AlexDTX]

45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves,

This is an evil servant. Which means he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and no servant at all.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You think Jesus is a literal vine,not a man?

And the people spoken about in the parable are foliage?

This is a very elementary line of questioning that I don’t want any part of. I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. If that’s how this discussion is going to be then there’s no point in having it.

 

[zoidar]

So back to your question, "Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?
Answer- When you are saved, you become a good servant.

"if a person is saved and is filled with the Holy Spirit, they strive to be a good servant."

Being a good servant and striving to be a good servant is not the same, is it?

I could agree about being saved and striving. Yet, not exactly sure what striving means. For a time I chose sinful life after being saved. Of course I didn't want to, yet chose it. Don't know if that is striving. At least I didn't see me as a good servant.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well you're right about Christianity not being works salvation. It's by faith.

I don't believe a saved person can "walk away" or abandon the faith after they are saved. Even if they wanted to, Gods will is stronger and won't let them:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one."

So Jesus is telling us after we are saved we won't walk away, because no-one can take the saved from him.

He doesn’t say we can’t walk away He says no one can snatch them from His hand. This means no one else can take away your salvation. Romans 11:17-23 says that a person can lose their salvation as a result of unbelief.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

"if a person is saved and is filled with the Holy Spirit, they strive to be a good servant."

Being a good servant and striving to be a good servant is not the same, is it?

I could agree about being saved and striving. Yet, not exactly sure what striving means. For a time I chose sinful life after being saved. Of course I didn't want to, yet chose it. Don't know if that is striving. At least I didn't see me as a good servant.

Strive, in the way I am using it, means efforts towards being a good servant through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Strive, in the way I am using it, means efforts towards being a good servant through the power of the Holy Spirit.

If we are striving to serve God then yes our salvation is secure as long as we continue.

 

[zoidar]

Strive, in the way I am using it, means efforts towards being a good servant through the power of the Holy Spirit.

You mean saved person can't choose a sinful lifestyle?

 

[Not David]

"Faith alone saves, but faith is never alone." - Martin Luther

Contradiction

 

[Daniel C]

He doesn’t say we can’t walk away He says no one can snatch them from His hand. This means no one else can take away your salvation. Romans 11:17-23 says that a person can lose their salvation as a result of unbelief.

No, he says "no man" so that would Include potential deserters. This is not a parable this is direct.

 

[Daniel C]

He doesn’t say we can’t walk away He says no one can snatch them from His hand. This means no one else can take away your salvation. Romans 11:17-23 says that a person can lose their salvation as a result of unbelief.

I already addressed this (Romans 11) point in a previous post and we disagree.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, he says "no man" so that would Include potential deserters. This is not a parable this is direct.

If what you are saying is true then no one could possible fail to abide in Christ as Jesus clearly stated a person is capable of doing in a John 15:6 and no one would be capable of turning to unbelief and being cut off from the olive tree as Paul stated in Romans 11:21-22.

 

[Daniel C]

This is a very elementary line of questioning that I don’t want any part of. I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. If that’s how this discussion is going to be then there’s no point in having it.

Well.......first of all you said "yes" he is a vine. Now I tighten the question some you say "obvious"

I know you don't want to admit the parable isn't literal because you believe some of the verses contained within support your belief if used literally.

I don't think God can be in debt to the creation,which is the arrangement when you believe you need to labour for salvation. A wage is accrued and a debt is accumulated. So salvation has to be gifted and the Bible describes the gift of life as eternal, so eternal salvation for the saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I already addressed this (Romans 11) point in a previous post and we disagree.

Yes

In Pauls letter the people who were ''broken off'' did so because of the lack of faith. It was never there to begin with-they probably trusted in self-works for salvation.

But you didn’t address my reply

Who grafted in these branches? Does God graft branches into Christ that do not believe? Why would He graft branches into Christ who don’t believe only to cut them off for unbelief?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well.......first of all you said "yes" he is a vine. Now I tighten the question some you say "obvious"

I know you don't want to admit the parable isn't literal because you believe some of the verses contained within support your belief if used literally.

I don't think God can be in debt to the creation,which is the arrangement when you believe you need to labour for salvation. A wage is accrued and a debt is accumulated. So salvation has to be gifted and the Bible describes the gift of life as eternal, so eternal salvation for the saved.

The wages of sin is death which is a debt we can never pay in full which is why salvation is by grace. No amount of works can pay for sin. Nevertheless God has expectations of His children. We must love God with all our heart soul and mind and love others as Christ loves us. These expectations are not optional. What reason did Jesus give for condemning the goats in Matthew 25:31-46?

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The goats were condemned because they didn’t have love for others. Their lack of compassion in their actions was evidence of their lack of love. James makes a similar point in James 2:14-17.


“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Again these are works of love.

In 1 Corinthians 3:2 Paul said if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but I have not Love I am nothing.

“If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Faith without love is not a saving faith. Faith with love will result in works. Love is what Jesus was referring to in a John 15.

“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:7-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Do you believe we are saved by faith without love?