Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

[the iconoclast]

Thanks, but remember the Dolly Parton quote:

Stand up.....and then duck.

Haha, i like you

 

[the iconoclast]

Do you agree with Aman777's specific interpretation of the Bible?

Hey hey pitabread

I have not read everything that my brother in Christ has written but what i have read, im not in complete disagreement with. He may disagree with somethings i believe, what we are united in is our faith in Jesus Christ - who is salvation.

@Aman777 is apart of the body of Christ and family to me.

Do you believe that Adam was created ~9 billion years ago and that the first humans came to Earth from another world and then interbred with prehistoric people that had evolved from earlier primates?

I believe that Jesus is reconciliation with God and Man. I have no view point on the timeline of Adam or the logistics on how things were done. If it is then cool, if it isnt then also cool, either way what will you do about Jesus?

I'm trying to see if any other Christians on this site agree with him, but so far it's zip.

How does that make you feel?

Cheers

Ps
Lets get into something or do you prefer to ridicule others to make you feel good about yourself - like when you pointed out xinghua is a laughing stock?

Why do you reject Jesus?

 

[Kylie]

Hey kylie


Excellent, we both agree that you should not hold your breath until i respond and continue our fun conversation.

I like our conversations but i do like to converse with others. I think its coming on to 2 years since we first began our dialogue. Wow the time goes by.



It would be amazing if i did see you anywhere else. Im curious, besides convincing your husband to become a "critically thinking Christian" - see i remember - what else do you get up to?

While i await @sfs and @The Barbarian to reply, Is there a link between you being here and your husbands belief system?

Cheers

I don't see what my life has to do with you.

 

[the iconoclast]

I don't see what my life has to do with you.

Hey hey you unique, special and incredible individual. I have some downtime while i await @sfs and @The Barbarian to reply.

Your life is your business and nobody elses - unless its unlawful, then its the govs.

Lets start small, what harmless activities- which are not intimate - do you get up to when you are not on cf?

What do you hope to acheive by being on cf and how would it benefit you outside cf?

Cheers

 

[Kylie]

Hey hey you unique, special and incredible individual. I have some downtime while i await @sfs and @The Barbarian to reply.

Your life is your business and nobody elses - unless its unlawful, then its the govs.

Lets start small, what harmless activities- which are not intimate - do you get up to when you are not on cf?

What do you hope to acheive by being on cf and how would it benefit you outside cf?

Cheers

I'm not going to take this thread off topic, and what I do outside CF isn't any of your business.

 

[Aman777]

You missed the point (again). You claim "all animals came from water just as science discovered", but then you claim "Jesus made some animals from Earth". You can't have it both ways. If all animals came from water, then Genesis 1:25 is wrong. But if Jesus made some animals from Earth then Genesis does not agree with science.

You ignored the fact that God the Trinity created "EVERY living creature that moveth" from Water on the 5th Day. EVERY living creature that moves is destined for Heaven EXCEPT Humans, since they have a free choice of where to spend Eternity. My words are in black:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living (eternal) creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after THEIR (Trinity) kind, (Spiritual and eternal kind) and every winged fowl after HIS (Jesus temporary) kind: and God (The Trinity) saw that it was good.

God created every living creature that moveth from water after THEIR kind, Genesis 1:21 which is ALWAYS an eternal creation, thus insuring that they will be in Heaven. God the Trinity also created every winged fowl eternal after the kind Jesus made with His own Hands or HIS kind. Genesis 2:19

God the Trinity did NOT create mosquitoes or any of the creeping things Lord God/Jesus made temporarily since Heaven doesn't have pests. Amen?

 

[pitabread]

I have not read everything that my brother in Christ has written but what i have read, im not in complete disagreement with. He may disagree with somethings i believe, what we are united in is our faith in Jesus Christ - who is salvation.

But therein lies the rub. Various creationists on this forum over time have claimed various interpretations of Biblical scripture and appealed to divine inspiration in the interpretation thereof. Some even go so far as to claim that their interpretations are requirements to be a Christian (there are creationists on this site that do *not* consider fellow Christians with different interpretations to be real Christians).

If there really were a supernatural deity that was guiding individual interpretations of Biblical scripture, then why so many radically different interpretations?

(Aman777 claims this is intentional. Do you agree with that?)

How does that make you feel?

Confused.

Lets get into something or do you prefer to ridicule others to make you feel good about yourself - like when you pointed out xinghua is a laughing stock?

I'm here for the same reason everyone is here: arguments and upvotes.

Insofar as xinghua's arguments go, I had previously asked if you were going to defend his arguments and you admitted you weren't even familiar with them. Just like you appear unfamiliar with Aman777's arguments.

If you feel so strongly about this, why aren't you reading their posts? Why aren't you defending their arguments?

Why do you reject Jesus?

Given the thousands of belief systems that have existed throughout history, I don't believe that any individual religion is true.

Rather differing religious beliefs appear to be cultural ideas that have developed and evolved over time, and are spread via cultural influence.

 

[pitabread]

EVERY living creature that moves is destined for Heaven EXCEPT Humans, since they have a free choice of where to spend Eternity.

Wait, what? Isn't this the exact opposite of what Christians believe?

 

[Aman777]

Given the thousands of belief systems that have existed throughout history, I don't believe that any individual religion is true.

Amen. Since there are more than 30k denominations and NONE of them are 100% correct, you can't believe ANY of them and that is exactly the way God wanted it to be. It gives us all a free choice to believe what God told us in the Bible or to reject it.

Now, you know WHY I show that Scripture, science, history, genetics and math AGREE. It's evidence that we are living in the last days before Jesus returns.

 

[Aman777]

Wait, what? Isn't this the exact opposite of what Christians believe?

No, since those who have not been born Spiritually are dead to God. God is the God of the living according to Jesus:

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living:

 

[pitabread]

Amen. Since there are more than 30k denominations and NONE of them are 100% correct, you can't believe ANY of them and that is exactly the way God wanted it to be.

It's not even just denominations of Christianity; it is religious beliefs period.

Religious beliefs, like other aspects of human culture, have continuously changed and evolved over time. If you were born a few thousand years ago or even born into a different culture in modern times, you'd have different beliefs.

Now, you know WHY I show that Scripture, science, history, genetics and math AGREE.

No matter how many times you claim this, we all know it's not true. No need to keep pretending.

 

[SLP]

For me, I love the Bible and science, but this wondrous universe coming about spontaneously from singularity (the meaning of which I barely understand) in a big bang, without the mighty hand of God; a “single cell something” rising up from a mud hole (primordial soup of some kind) “on its own” in baron [sic], inhospitable conditions and becoming “the common ancestor” in a linear progression to the varieties of everything on a beautifully complex earth, including man...

I italicized some of the possible reasons that you reject evolution. You don't seem to understand it.

well, just step back from all the jargon and defense for a moment and look at that picture.

"jargon and defense." Interesting choice of words!

but how people are completely sold on that “one in a gazillion” possibility, and at the same time regard the biblical creation by an Almighty God (however and by whatever means He desired to accomplish it) to be a fairy tale, really puzzles me.

...but how people are completely sold on biblical creation by an Almighty God for which there is no evidence and at the same time regard things they admit (or exhibit) they do not understand and dismiss as a fairy tale, really puzzles me.

 

[SLP]

... as you said, just the clif notes premise sounds absurd but when you start digging into the complexity of even a single cell and the wondrous workings contained in it with the DNA code and the complex chemical reactions, you realize that this cannot be the simple beginning of something more complex but is in it very nature, more complex than science can explain or even fathom.

The awe of ignorance in action.

Never mind the abundance of Creation science and evidence that agrees completely with the observable world.

Now THAT is some funny stuff.

I have yet to see any real 'creation science' that does not have, as its sole purpose, attacking evolution. I am aware of only a couple of off-the-res attempts to show that certain aspects of certain biblical stories could be plausible - and these are generally absurd and comical at best (e.g., Woodmorappe's ark 'feasibility study' in which all manner of extra-biblical stuff must be tossed in, along with some manipulated statistics and a heavy reliance on post-flood hyper-evolution).

Examples?

 

[Aman777]

Aman777 said: ↑
Now, you know WHY I show that Scripture, science, history, genetics and math AGREE.

No matter how many times you claim this, we all know it's not true. No need to keep pretending.

Can you refute me Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically or mathematically? Of course not. It's because I tell you of God's Truth which MUST agree with every other discovered Truth. God's irrefutable Truth is truly amazing. It never fails which is evidence that mankind didn't write it.

 

[pitabread]

Can you refute me Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically or mathematically? Of course not.

First, still not how the burden of proof works. The onus is not on us to refute you. The onus is on you to support your view.

Second, you've already been refuted, but then you just shift the goal posts. Like for example your artificial distinction between "true science" (aka stuff you agree with) versus what you call "false science" (aka stuff you don't). Notice that you don't point out that distinction in the above quote, because it doesn't exactly carry the same aura of gravitas when pointed out that you reject a whole bunch of science, history, genetics, etc, in the first place.

Consequently, there is no argument to be had there, since your position is philosophically indefensible at that point. You appear to have no objective basis for anything you are claiming.

And as discussions with others have gone, you end up contradicting yourself in your own efforts to support your position. Which is the sign of a dubious position to begin with.

 

[Aman777]

First, still not how the burden of proof works. The onus is not on us to refute you. The onus is on you to support your view.

Second, you've already been refuted, but then you just shift the goal posts. Like for example your artificial distinction between "true science" (aka stuff you agree with) versus what you call "false science" (aka stuff you don't). Notice that you don't point out that distinction in the above quote, because it doesn't exactly carry the same aura of gravitas when pointed out that you reject a whole bunch of science, history, genetics, etc, in the first place.

Consequently, there is no argument to be had there, since your position is philosophically indefensible at that point. You appear to have no objective basis for anything you are claiming.

And as discussions with others have gone, you end up contradicting yourself in your own efforts to support your position. Which is the sign of a dubious position to begin with.

Can you refute me Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically or mathematically? Of course not. I agree totally with every True discovery of Science but changeable Theories, which cannot be repeated (like the Theory of the evolution of Human intelligence) are considered WRONG by Science itself, thus subject to change when the current Theory is refuted.

My Theory is based on the agreement of Scripture with Science, History, Genetics and Math and NO one can refute it because it's God's Truth. I will change it IF someone can refute me in ANY way. Until then, it stands, just like the ToE stands. What is good for the scientific Turkey is the same for the Christian Turkey. Amen?

 

[pitabread]

Can you refute me Scripturally, scientifically, historically, genetically or mathematically?

You've been repeatedly refuted. You just don't seem to care.

All these discussions have revealed is that you cherry pick the things that you want to accept and then invent fan fiction to explain away the things that don't. Our discussion of musical instruments is a prime example; when shown that musical instruments have a ~40,000 year history, you just arbitrarily dismiss that. The fact is is that scripture, science, history and genetics all seem to disagree with you (can't speak for whatever math you are referring to).

In the end, everything you've posted can be summed as, "the things I believe agree with the things that I believe". Not terribly impressive I'm afraid.

I agree totally with every True discovery of Science but changeable Theories, which cannot be repeated (like the Theory of the evolution of Human intelligence) are considered WRONG by Science itself, thus subject to change when the current Theory is refuted.

Everything in science is provisional and subject to change. That is the strength of science; it is by nature incomplete since we as humans have incomplete knowledge. There is always more to learn.

Trying to apply dogmatism to science is just a misuse of the very same.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

You ignored the fact that God the Trinity created "EVERY living creature that moveth" from Water on the 5th Day. EVERY living creature that moves is destined for Heaven EXCEPT Humans, since they have a free choice of where to spend Eternity. My words are in black:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living (eternal) creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after THEIR (Trinity) kind, (Spiritual and eternal kind) and every winged fowl after HIS (Jesus temporary) kind: and God (The Trinity) saw that it was good.

God created every living creature that moveth from water after THEIR kind, Genesis 1:21 which is ALWAYS an eternal creation, thus insuring that they will be in Heaven. God the Trinity also created every winged fowl eternal after the kind Jesus made with His own Hands or HIS kind. Genesis 2:19

God the Trinity did NOT create mosquitoes or any of the creeping things Lord God/Jesus made temporarily since Heaven doesn't have pests. Amen?

So you're admitting that, contrary to your assertion, Genesis does not agree with science?

Well done and thank you.

 

[Kylie]

You ignored the fact that God the Trinity created "EVERY living creature that moveth" from Water on the 5th Day. EVERY living creature that moves is destined for Heaven EXCEPT Humans, since they have a free choice of where to spend Eternity. My words are in black:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living (eternal) creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after THEIR (Trinity) kind, (Spiritual and eternal kind) and every winged fowl after HIS (Jesus temporary) kind: and God (The Trinity) saw that it was good.

God created every living creature that moveth from water after THEIR kind, Genesis 1:21 which is ALWAYS an eternal creation, thus insuring that they will be in Heaven. God the Trinity also created every winged fowl eternal after the kind Jesus made with His own Hands or HIS kind. Genesis 2:19

God the Trinity did NOT create mosquitoes or any of the creeping things Lord God/Jesus made temporarily since Heaven doesn't have pests. Amen?

Cool fan theory. Do you have anything to support your interpretation?

 

[inquiring mind]

I italicized some of the possible reasons that you reject evolution. You don't seem to understand it.

I understand evolution up to the point where interpretations take-on speculation & projection.

"jargon and defense." Interesting choice of words!

I thought it suitable verbiage to describe the macroevolution pitch.

...but how people are completely sold on biblical creation by an Almighty God for which there is no evidence and at the same time regard things they admit (or exhibit) they do not understand and dismiss as a fairy tale, really puzzles me.

You sort of twisted my use of 'fairy tale' in your statement. Perhaps you overlooked my comment "For me, I love the Bible and science." If you will read my OP again, you will see that my reference was 'how can people accept our existence as being an incredibly lucky shot,' on the one hand, and then refer to the Biblical Creation as a fairy tale, on the other. I don't regard science as a fairy tale, I just disagree with some interpretations of evidence.