Questions Regarding Dietary Law (For Gentile Christians)

[Lulav]

In fact meat sacrificed to idols would not occur in a meat market but a idol or pagan temple (1 Corinthians 8:10).

Meat sacrificed to idols would not occur in a meat market but rather in a pagan or idol temple.

Not necessarily. This was written before Islam came into being. Muslims actually do their slaughter to their god in their butcher shops.

 

[Mercy74]

Remember at that time there was only the Jews and the rest of the world were heathens, believing in other gods. There were many slaughters done as a 'gift' to the idol but unlike the Levitical priesthood where some of the offerings were eaten by the priests or their families and some by the people offering them what they did back then was to make the sacrifice, place it on the altar for a period of time (think about the flies) and then move it to the marketplace and sell it.

Are you suggesting that the Roman government did not oversee or inspect the meat markets? The Romans crucified thieves. Paul was a Roman citizen.

 

[Mercy74]

Not necessarily. This was written before Islam came into being. Muslims actually do their slaughter to their god in their butcher shops.

The meat must be lawfully labeled before it can be sold.

 

[visionary]

f you are aware of the food being sacrificed to idols, what should be the concern is whether or not this will hurt your testimony or even compromise your belief in God. This is something that needs to be watched out for and I am sure Yeshua did have this concern even when he said "Eat what is set before you" in Luke 10:8:
"8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you."

If you are presented a meal by an unbeliever and your brother and sister is concerned about eating meat offered to idols, it is better to politely turn down the meal for the sake of your brother or sister's conscience.

Be sensitive to the fact that even if you could eat a certain food and have no doubts in your mind if you can eat it, your brother and sister in Yeshua our Messiah may not share that same conviction, so it is better for you to abstain in their presence for their sake, lest you cause them to sin. If you love your brother or sister, then build him up. Support Yeshua and His Father in all their good advice.

 

[Lulav]

The meat must be lawfully labeled before it can be sold.

Meaning?

Labeled where?, I know of know sources that label where the meat was slaughtered and by whom except for kosher certifications.

 

[Lost4words]

Man was made in G-ds image, dogs are lower on the pole. And this is a serious thread, so please respond or don't likewise.

It was a tiny bit of humour thats all.

 

[Mercy74]

Meaning?

Labeled where?, I know of know sources that label where the meat was slaughtered and by whom except for kosher certifications.

The USDA inspects meat.

 

[Mercy74]

--Just to be clear, I wasn't intending this thread to become a debate on the meaning of Peter's vision in Acts 10 and I'd prefer it didn't--



Precisely my point. Paul says not to ask and not to worry about it unless someone tells you otherwise. Or at least that's what the text seems to imply to me. I've yet to hear alternative opinions on this.



I wouldn't say this interpretation is impossible, I just don't see any reason given to believe this is necessarily the case. Additionally, it doesn't grapple with what Paul says about buying meat from meat markets where he also says to buy and eat whatever is sold there without asking questions.



I won't say it's impossible, but I don't see anything in the text here suggesting the use of meat market (makellō) was specific to a seller of fish rather than a typical butchery or meat stall, or that meat (krea) means anything other than simply flesh or meat (not specific to fish.)

Just because you do not ask questions does not mean you eat meat ignorantly. The crowd did not ask how the two fish and five loaves of bread were gathered or slaughtered. Yeshua gave the meat to them, they knew it was kosher based on the source. Now if you find yourself inside a pagan temple, you may wish to refrain from eating meat sacrificed to an idol. This issue deals with your conscience, why is your conscience not bothered that you feel comfortable eating at a table with demons? We are told to resist evil? Lot was vexed while living in the city of Sodom.

 

[Noscentia]

To not ask any questions about it's source could lead many to eat things not only unclean, by their creator but also could cause anything from dire illness to death.

Just a for instance, you are served a stew, you don't ask what's in it and start eating. Shortly thereafter your tongue starts to swell up and then your air is cut off. They had no Epi-pens back then for someone allergic to shellfish which was in the stew.

That may be great practical advice, but it's not what Paul says to do. Dealing with Paul's words is the question.

if you are aware of the food being sacrificed to idols, what should be the concern is whether or not this will hurt your testimony or even compromise your belief in God.

Yes, you would not knowingly eat meat offered to idols, that is the Law. Paul is saying to purchase and eat meat from the market/eat whatever is offered to you by a nonbeliever (if you are an invited guest) and not to ask if the meat in either circumstance was previously an idol offering. Therefore you would not do so knowingly. At the same time, he also says that if you understand that God is the only God and an idol is nothing, then you have liberty to consume such meat, so long as your doing so doesn't cause a brother to stumble. If there is a different way to interpret what he's saying, I have yet to hear it.

As far as I can read, you could eat meat offered to idols so long as you possessed the right knowledge and understanding, and so long as your doing so doesn't harm the walk of another.

If you are presented a meal by an unbeliever and your brother and sister is concerned about eating meat offered to idols, it is better to politely turn down the meal for the sake of your brother or sister's conscience.

27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; i]">[i]for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”

This is the understanding Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 10:27-28. Eat it, don't ask questions, and refuse it if someone tells you it was an idol offering for the conscience of the other, not for your own conscience.

1 Corinthians 10:29-30

29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?

Be sensitive to the fact that even if you could eat a certain food and have no doubts in your mind if you can eat it, your brother and sister in Yeshua our Messiah may not share that same conviction, so it is better for you to abstain in their presence for their sake, lest you cause them to sin. If you love your brother or sister, then build him up.

You're just restating the same thing Paul says, which I already agree with, and which I've quoted several times, yes. This is not the question of the thread, I have no problems with this aspect of it.

The question of the thread is concerning the implications of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 10:25-30. And really, you can focus it around just verse 25 if you wanted to, because that's the crux of the issue. If Paul is saying don't ask questions about whether the meat was sacrificed to idols (which he directly does so), then I would question how one would know the bloodletting status of the meat and whether it was properly bled. If he is not saying what he seems to be saying, what then is he saying?

 

[visionary]

fyhf

That may be great practical advice, but it's not what Paul says to do. Dealing with Paul's words is the question.



Yes, you would not knowingly eat meat offered to idols, that is the Law. Paul is saying to purchase and eat meat from the market/eat whatever is offered to you by a nonbeliever (if you are an invited guest) and not to ask if the meat in either circumstance was previously an idol offering. Therefore you would not do so knowingly. At the same time, he also says that if you understand that God is the only God and an idol is nothing, then you have liberty to consume such meat, so long as your doing so doesn't cause a brother to stumble. If there is a different way to interpret what he's saying, I have yet to hear it.

As far as I can read, you could eat meat offered to idols so long as you possessed the right knowledge and understanding, and so long as your doing so doesn't harm the walk of another.



27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; i]">[i]for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”

This is the understanding Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 10:27-28. Eat it, don't ask questions, and refuse it if someone tells you it was an idol offering for the conscience of the other, not for your own conscience.

1 Corinthians 10:29-30

29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?



You're just restating the same thing Paul says, which I already agree with, and which I've quoted several times, yes. This is not the question of the thread, I have no problems with this aspect of it.

The question of the thread is concerning the implications of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 10:25-30. And really, you can focus it around just verse 25 if you wanted to, because that's the crux of the issue. If Paul is saying don't ask questions about whether the meat was sacrificed to idols (which he directly does so), then I would question how one would know the bloodletting status of the meat and whether it was properly bled. If he is not saying what he seems to be saying, what then is he saying?

If you don't know, it isn't a problem,
if you do know, then address it,
if you found out later, then know better for next time.
Sounds simple to me.

 

[Mercy74]

That may be great practical advice, but it's not what Paul says to do. Dealing with Paul's words is the question.



Yes, you would not knowingly eat meat offered to idols, that is the Law. Paul is saying to purchase and eat meat from the market/eat whatever is offered to you by a nonbeliever (if you are an invited guest) and not to ask if the meat in either circumstance was previously an idol offering. Therefore you would not do so knowingly. At the same time, he also says that if you understand that God is the only God and an idol is nothing, then you have liberty to consume such meat, so long as your doing so doesn't cause a brother to stumble. If there is a different way to interpret what he's saying, I have yet to hear it.

As far as I can read, you could eat meat offered to idols so long as you possessed the right knowledge and understanding, and so long as your doing so doesn't harm the walk of another.



27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; i]">[i]for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”

This is the understanding Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 10:27-28. Eat it, don't ask questions, and refuse it if someone tells you it was an idol offering for the conscience of the other, not for your own conscience.

1 Corinthians 10:29-30

29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?



You're just restating the same thing Paul says, which I already agree with, and which I've quoted several times, yes. This is not the question of the thread, I have no problems with this aspect of it.

The question of the thread is concerning the implications of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 10:25-30. And really, you can focus it around just verse 25 if you wanted to, because that's the crux of the issue. If Paul is saying don't ask questions about whether the meat was sacrificed to idols (which he directly does so), then I would question how one would know the bloodletting status of the meat and whether it was properly bled. If he is not saying what he seems to be saying, what then is he saying?

Paul says "and you desire to go", why do you desire to eat with unbelievers? Your desire to do so is the greater issue.

 

[Lulav]

The USDA inspects meat.

There's nothing on there about who slaughtered it. Nor does it give kosher certification.

Did you know that butchers in supermarkets and probably in butcher shops, add pig blood to the ground beef to make it more 'appealing'? They don't put that on the label either, nor what the other percentage of the meat is.

Ground Beef 85% Lean

What is the other 15% made up of?

 

[Noscentia]

fyhf
If you don't know, it isn't a problem,
if you do know, then address it,
if you found out later, then know better for next time.
Sounds simple to me.

Alright so we've settled issue of meat offered to idols. It seems we have the same understanding of Paul in this case which I've held from the start. Paul says don't ask whether it was idol meat because if you don't know then you're fine.

So getting to the question of the OP, would you apply this same standard to the bloodletting status of the meat? Assuming it was an idol sacrifice (which you're advised not to ask about), it seems reasonable to presume it was not slaughtered in a kosher fashion, so would that mean incidental blood consumption from meat not properly butchered/blood-letted could also be hand waved (though obviously not encouraged) for the same reason?

Applying this to my own life, which is what gave rise to this question in the first place, I don't have ready access to kosher meat (much as I'd like to.) If I take Paul's advice, can I safely buy and consume meat from my local supermarket so long as I don't think too hard about where it came from?

I've only been eating kosher vegetarian since I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this, which I feel addresses all applicable Bible passages.

 

[Mercy74]

There's nothing on there about who slaughtered it. Nor does it give kosher certification.

Did you know that butchers in supermarkets and probably in butcher shops, add pig blood to the ground beef to make it more 'appealing'? They don't put that on the label either, nor what the other percentage of the meat is.

Ground Beef 85% Lean

What is the other 15% made up of?

So are you saying that the USDA would not notice meat being sacrificed to an idol?

There's nothing on there about who slaughtered it. Nor does it give kosher certification.

Did you know that butchers in supermarkets and probably in butcher shops, add pig blood to the ground beef to make it more 'appealing'? They don't put that on the label either, nor what the other percentage of the meat is.

Ground Beef 85% Lean

What is the other 15% made up of?

15 % fat, but I guess food fraud does exist. I doubt pig blood is being used. Again, if the apostles drank poison ignorantly it would not harm them (Mark 16:18). However, we may need a Jewish lawyer lol.

 

[Mercy74]

Alright so we've settled issue of meat offered to idols. It seems we have the same understanding of Paul in this case which I've held from the start. Paul says don't ask whether it was idol meat because if you don't know then you're fine.

So getting to the question of the OP, would you apply this same standard to the bloodletting status of the meat? Assuming it was an idol sacrifice (which you're advised not to ask about), it seems reasonable to presume it was not slaughtered in a kosher fashion, so would that mean incidental blood consumption from meat not properly butchered/blood-letted could also be hand waved (though obviously not encouraged) for the same reason?

Applying this to my own life, which is what gave rise to this question in the first place, I don't have ready access to kosher meat (much as I'd like to.) If I take Paul's advice, can I safely buy and consume meat from my local supermarket so long as I don't think too hard about where it came from?

I've only been eating kosher vegetarian since I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this, which I feel addresses all applicable Bible passages.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but we must deal with the greater issue. Why Peter desires to eat with those uncircumcised? Peter denied Yeshua three times. Why did Lot pitch his tent near Sodom? I doubt Lot would find many kosher restaurants in Sodom. I would suggest continue looking for kosher certifications.

 

[Lulav]

So are you saying that the USDA would not notice meat being sacrificed to an idol?

15 % fat, but I guess food fraud does exist. I doubt pig blood is being used. Again, if the apostles drank poison ignorantly it would not harm them (Mark 16:18). However, we may need a Jewish lawyer lol.

You have a right to doubt but I got it from the horses mouth, my BIL was a butcher for a major food supermarket, I learned this in just casual conversation about his job, he was called the 'meat head' because he was the head of the whole meat department.

And as far as the 15% fat, it never specifies where that fat came from.

 

[Lulav]

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but we must deal with the greater issue. Why Peter desires to eat with those uncircumcised? Peter denied Yeshua three times. Why did Lot pitch his tent near Sodom? I doubt Lot would find many kosher restaurants in Sodom. I would suggest continue looking for kosher certifications.

There were no kosher laws at the time of Lot, except for not eating meat with the life blood in it.

 

[Lulav]

Alright so we've settled issue of meat offered to idols. It seems we have the same understanding of Paul in this case which I've held from the start. Paul says don't ask whether it was idol meat because if you don't know then you're fine.

So getting to the question of the OP, would you apply this same standard to the bloodletting status of the meat? Assuming it was an idol sacrifice (which you're advised not to ask about), it seems reasonable to presume it was not slaughtered in a kosher fashion, so would that mean incidental blood consumption from meat not properly butchered/blood-letted could also be hand waved (though obviously not encouraged) for the same reason?

Applying this to my own life, which is what gave rise to this question in the first place, I don't have ready access to kosher meat (much as I'd like to.) If I take Paul's advice, can I safely buy and consume meat from my local supermarket so long as I don't think too hard about where it came from?

I've only been eating kosher vegetarian since I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this, which I feel addresses all applicable Bible passages.

You can be pescetarian, many have done that when it's not available. Depending where you live you can order from a Kosher service online, fresh or frozen.

 

[visionary]

Even those who have placed the kosher symbol on the label have us concerned a time or two, when we discovered that while it may be acceptable to the rabbis who approved the meat, but it gives rise to a conscience consideration. An example of this ..
All About Hot Dogs: Kosher Controversy, Label Confusion, Regional Flavors and More | HuffPost
In May, a class action lawsuit was filed against ConAgra, alleging that Hebrew National hot dogs do not meet kashrut standards. Employees of a firm called AER, which provides the meat for Hebrew Nationals, reported to AER supervisors as well as a rabbi from Triangle K, a New York-based kosher certification company, that they had observed slaughterhouse procedures that were not kosher.

 

[Mercy74]

Even those who have placed the kosher symbol on the label have us concerned a time or two, when we discovered that while it may be acceptable to the rabbis who approved the meat, but it gives rise to a conscience consideration. An example of this ..
All About Hot Dogs: Kosher Controversy, Label Confusion, Regional Flavors and More | HuffPost
In May, a class action lawsuit was filed against ConAgra, alleging that Hebrew National hot dogs do not meet kashrut standards. Employees of a firm called AER, which provides the meat for Hebrew Nationals, reported to AER supervisors as well as a rabbi from Triangle K, a New York-based kosher certification company, that they had observed slaughterhouse procedures that were not kosher.

Amen