Argument for God's existence.

[holo]

try again, atheism is your world view and it shapes everything about you, it affects your view of evolution, your view of your origins, and your view of the purpose or lack thereof of your own existence. If watching movies, and playing video games in your spare time is more important than those concepts you are more vain than I thought.

You don't have to worry about me, I have plenty of meaning, hope, joy and beauty in my life, and I definitely find those in other things than video games and such.

And again, atheism isn't my worldview, it simply means I'm not currently convinced there is a god. If you're interested, the way I relate to life and existence these days are more influenced by Buddhist and scientific concepts. My lack of faith in the Christian god actually doesn't have too much to do with it.

But I can sympathize with your view. Losing my Christian faith was extremely depressing and scary, because like you I couldn't imagine having any sense of hope, purpose or salvation without it. Thankfully, I was wrong.

 

[holo]

can you prove that statement? "theism makes no sense apart from atheism"?

No. I'm just throwing your own logic back at you. It's your claim that atheism makes no sense without theism, so I guess it must work both ways.

 

[Moral Orel]

yes I often forget that mathmatics can be proven. But facts in general that are not math related cannot be. For the most part any well known fact cannot be proven. Science does not even try to prove, and often confesses that they can't prove. Yet the theist is required to prove God's existence. So if anyone is moving the goal posts, it's not me.

I literally just demonstrated you moving the goalposts by changing your claim. It is you.

You and I both use the word "Prove" colloquially and I think we agree that neither of us means "To show as true with 100% certainty". I'd rather not argue semantics, but if you insist, we can both stop using the word "Prove" and instead make sure we only say things like, "Present evidence". I predict both of us will fail to do the above, and a lot of petty "Nuh-uh! You can't say 'Prove'!" will result. So how about we just drop the worthless, "Proof is for math and alcohol" routine, and just know what we each mean? Deal?

Lastly, you missed post #1178 where I again proved another negative without it being mathematical in nature... not that my sentence example really was mathematical without a lot of spin involved.

 

[holo]

the theist is required to prove God's existence.

Of course. If someone tells you Islam is true, they better back that claim up, right?

 

[createdtoworship]

You don't have to worry about me, I have plenty of meaning, hope, joy and beauty in my life, and I definitely find those in other things than video games and such.

And again, atheism isn't my worldview, it simply means I'm not currently convinced there is a god. If you're interested, the way I relate to life and existence these days are more influenced by Buddhist and scientific concepts. My lack of faith in the Christian god actually doesn't have too much to do with it.

But I can sympathize with your view. Losing my Christian faith was extremely depressing and scary, because like you I couldn't imagine having any sense of hope, purpose or salvation without it. Thankfully, I was wrong.

well I did not get to you soon enough. It is my purpose here to be a go between to help those who are struggling see that logic behind God.

but I was curious how an atheist, follows Buddhist viewpoints, that part has me puzzled.

 

[createdtoworship]

Of course. If someone tells you Islam is true, they better back that claim up, right?

you didn't quote the rest of the post, 99.9% of facts cannot be proven, yet theists are required to prove God exists. Don't you see, no amount of evidence will be enough, it will never be the proof you are looking for, even though in my opinion in this thread , in the OP, I do actually prove that God is the only logical cause for the universe. Feel free to reply to it, It's post one.

 

[holo]

well I did not get to you soon enough. It is my purpose here to be a go between to help those who are struggling see that logic behind God.

but I was curious how an atheist, follows Buddhist viewpoints, that part has me puzzled.

Not to derail the thread, but the thing with Buddhism is it's essentially non-theistic. Granted, there are lots of variations of Buddhism that include a belief in reincarnation and such, but at it's core, of only makes claims about the here and now and the nature of the mind and the universe. And in those things it's basically true as far as I can tell. For instance the claim that pain is unavoidable but suffering is optional, and the things we can do to minimize it. In short I find a lot of tremendously helpful stuff there.

 

[holo]

you didn't quote the rest of the post, 99.9% of facts cannot be proven, yet theists are required to prove God exists. Don't you see, no amount of evidence will be enough, it will never be the proof you are looking for, even though in my opinion in this thread , in the OP, I do actually prove that God is the only logical cause for the universe. Feel free to reply to it, It's post one.

I'm not convinced by your proofs, and anyway I'm not even sure what the term God entails. It can be a lot of things.

But anyway, making claims, especially about things that can't be seen, measured or experienced, need to backed up. I don't think your claims are backed up well enough, and as far as I can tell there are irreconcilable inconsistencies in them.

 

[createdtoworship]

Not to derail the thread, but the thing with Buddhism is it's essentially non-theistic. Granted, there are lots of variations of Buddhism that include a belief in reincarnation and such, but at it's core, of only makes claims about the here and now and the nature of the mind and the universe. And in those things it's basically true as far as I can tell. For instance the claim that pain is unavoidable but suffering is optional, and the things we can do to minimize it. In short I find a lot of tremendously helpful stuff there.

well good for you. But I don't think that Buddhism is entirely non theistic: "Buddhist suttas and sutras make reference to all sorts of supernatural beings who inhabit the universe, from ghosts, demi-gods, devas, and brahmāsto celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas. "

you would have to deny all of those buddhist works in order to be non theistic. But from what I read buddhism does deny a creator or personal God. But that is not what theism is. Theism is just a belief in God in a general sense. So buddhism would qualify as a theistic religion. But I am ultimately happy you found some meaning. My whole purpose with my threads is to prove that religion does promote good values. I don't agree with all of them, but most of them are positive.

 

[gaara4158]

according to most dictionaries, atheism would qualify as a world view:
In order to know if atheism is a worldview, we need to first define our terms. A worldview is a set of propositions, beliefs, and assumptions that a person uses when relating to and interpreting the world around him. If that definition isn't sufficient, please consider the following definition:

"The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group." (thefreedictionary.com, answers.com/topic/worldview)

according to that definition atheism would qualify as a world view.

Atheism isn’t a collection of beliefs. It is a position on exactly one belief: theism. Nothing more.

 

[gaara4158]

no I don't hate them at all. Sir. IF you accuse me of something, please back it up or stop saying it.

Your overall tone and attitude are dripping with contempt. It’s all over the thread. There’s no hiding it.

 

[createdtoworship]

Atheism isn’t a collection of beliefs. It is a position on exactly one belief: theism. Nothing more.

so you are making a positive statement that atheists only believe one thing regarding theism? That is pretty hard to prove.

 

[createdtoworship]

Your overall tone and attitude are dripping with contempt. It’s all over the thread. There’s no hiding it.

I believe in your last post you said I needed counseling. So please excuse me for not feeling sorry for you. You guys have been anything but polite, despite my constant bickering to be nice. So deal with it, you created it.

 

[gaara4158]

so you are making a positive statement that atheists only believe one thing regarding theism? That is pretty hard to prove.

It’s literally the only thing you can prove about atheism. When you ask an atheist if they believe in God, they say “no.” That is the definition of atheism. It’s not a worldview, it’s an answer to one question. I don’t know how to make it any simpler for you.

 

[gaara4158]

I believe in your last post you said I needed counseling. So please excuse me for not feeling sorry for you. You guys have been anything but polite, despite my constant bickering to be nice. So deal with it, you created it.

That wasn’t me, but there’s that contempt. Don’t worry, it doesn’t bother us, but it’s a little sad to see.

 

[createdtoworship]

It’s literally the only thing you can prove about atheism. When you ask an atheist if they believe in God, they say “no.” That is the definition of atheism. It’s not a worldview, it’s an answer to one question. I don’t know how to make it any simpler for you.

so you can prove that all atheists don't believe anything else about theism other than that? Please provide interviews of every single atheist and provide documentation that you know for sure they don't hold any other views about theism.

 

[gaara4158]

so you can prove that all atheists don't believe anything else about theism other than that? Please provide interviews of every single atheist and provide documentation that you know for sure they don't hold any other views about theism.

They may have other opinions about theism, but those opinions aren’t atheism. They get those opinions from their actual world views, which vary. The fact that not all atheists agree on everything should be an indicator to you that atheism isn’t a worldview.

 

[createdtoworship]

They may have other opinions about theism, but those opinions aren’t atheism. They get those opinions from their actual world views, which vary. The fact that not all atheists agree on everything should be an indicator to you that atheism isn’t a worldview.

"it is important to recognize that the term “atheism” is polysemous—i.e., it has more than one related meaning—even within philosophy."

Atheism and Agnosticism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

so isn't that saying something different than what you said, "that atheists believe one thing about theism."

 

[gaara4158]

"it is important to recognize that the term “atheism” is polysemous—i.e., it has more than one related meaning—even within philosophy."

Atheism and Agnosticism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

so isn't that saying something different than what you said, "that atheists believe one thing about theism."

I was working with the broadest definition, which the article does mention (although rejects for the purposes of scholarly philosophical discussion) but if you want to trot out that reference then you absolutely have to admit that atheism isn’t a worldview. At best it’s a metaphysical position, but that doesn’t constitute a worldview.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

according to most dictionaries, atheism would qualify as a world view:
In order to know if atheism is a worldview, we need to first define our terms. A worldview is a set of propositions, beliefs, and assumptions that a person uses when relating to and interpreting the world around him. If that definition isn't sufficient, please consider the following definition:

"The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group." (thefreedictionary.com, answers.com/topic/worldview)

according to that definition atheism would qualify as a world view.

No it wouldn't. Atheism is a philosophical position concerning one thing - the existence of gods. One can be atheist and have any number of different worldviews, just not any theistic ones.

Please learn how to distinguish categories.