Is Salvation not good enough?

[ChicanaRose]

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

The reason I ask is because my ancestors (all the way up to my grandparents) were pagans--pretty hard core too, hiring mediums and fortune-tellers.

Usually, when I share testimony about how my parents got saved, people rejoice.

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

 

[TuxAme]

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

The reason I ask is because my ancestors (all the way up to my grandparents) were pagans--pretty hard core too, hiring mediums and fortune-tellers.

Usually, when I share testimony about how my parents got saved, people rejoice.

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

Jesus was crucified for the attitudes that divide the churches nowadays, is that wrong?

I'm more right than you etc etc.

 

[TuxAme]

Jesus was crucified for the attitudes that divide the churches nowadays, is that wrong?

I'm more right than you etc etc.

Jesus was crucified because it was His plan to inaugurate the New Covenant in His blood, not because of "attitudes".

 

[ChicanaRose]

Jesus was crucified for the attitudes that divide the churches nowadays, is that wrong?

I'm more right than you etc etc.

Please answer my original question from my original post. If you have new questions and new arguments, please create a separate thread and I will try to participate.

 

[ChicanaRose]

.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

I am not asking why you are part of the Catholic church, but why you think it's not good enough for my parents to be Protestants. There is a difference between what you value for yourself and what you impose on others.

 

[Grip Docility]

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

The reason I ask is because my ancestors (all the way up to my grandparents) were pagans--pretty hard core too, hiring mediums and fortune-tellers.

Usually, when I share testimony about how my parents got saved, people rejoice.

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

This has nothing to do with Catholics. There are ... Petty people within (Protestantism)(Catholicism).

We all have a "Pet Theology" and can argue till the cows come home, and even get super upset over the matter...

But... and I mean But... People that think their perspective, Brick and Mortar location or Theology is the Truth... are completely ignorant to Jesus Identifying Himself as "The Truth".

In other words... if a person thinks their concept of the truth, "Other than Jesus", is "the truth"... they are just being dumb.

All blessings to you in the Name of Our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ... The only Name, God, Hope, Origin of Love, that Saves. (John 5:39-40)

 

[ChicanaRose]

This has nothing to do with Catholics. There are ... Petty people within (Protestantism)(Catholicism).

We all have a "Pet Theology" and can argue till the cows come home, and even get super upset over the matter...

But... and I mean But... People that think their perspective, Brick and Mortar location or Theology is the Truth... are completely ignorant to Jesus Identifying Himself as "The Truth".

In other words... if a person thinks their concept of the truth, "Other than Jesus", is "the truth"... they are just being dumb.

All blessings to you in the Name of Our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ... The only Name, God, Hope, Origin of Love, that Saves. (John 5:39-40)

I'm okay with people taking pride in their denominational beliefs. But not so much with them trying to impose it on me like I (or my parents) are not Christian enough for them.

 

[Lavender.bloom]

Jesus is enough. And what they are doing is wrong. Peace

 

[Tone]

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

I think everybody is excited when someone professes Messiah, but, it is true that we will become more excited if that individual becomes like-minded and, thus, agrees with us theologically speaking.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

We should all pray that we come to the fullness of the truth through Messiah:

Ephesians 3
"17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Then you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to comprehend the length and width and height and depth of His love, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God."

 

[bcbsr]

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.
Why is it that I receive from them comments like:
"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"
?

There are significant differences in theology among Christians, particularly between Catholics and Evangelical non-Catholics like myself, even concerning essential matter of salvation.

For many of us upon coming to faith in Christ freedom from condemnation is guaranteed and the person is eternally secure in his fate, as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 And we find much scriptural support for this interpretation.

In contrast Catholicism parses between what they call "initial salvation" which is just the initial stage of th process of salvation culminating in "final salvation" which is when God decides one's fate - heaven or hell.

Concerning "initial salvation" they will agree that it is by faith alone. And so based on that fact they'll claim to believe in salvation by faith apart from works. But that is misleading. Here's the Catholic Catechism concerning "Final Salvation".

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments
The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them; the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.

A idea of which many of us refer to as "salvation by works". By "Commandments" they actually go much further than simply the 10 commandments. For example according to Catholics it's a mortal sin to use a condom during sex. (Can't find that in the 10 commandments) You have to become a Catholic to learn all the plethora of rules and regulations that Catholicism classifies as "commandments" upon which "Final Salvation" is contingent.

So you can see why Catholics may belittle those of us who read the Bible much differently.

 

[Xethea]

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

The reason I ask is because my ancestors (all the way up to my grandparents) were pagans--pretty hard core too, hiring mediums and fortune-tellers.

Usually, when I share testimony about how my parents got saved, people rejoice.

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

The Catholic stuff is false, highly. They've got salvation wrong, they replace a dude that you go to him to confess your sins and even call him "father," just like we would go to Jesus and ask him for forgiveness from our Heavenly Father, God. Plus all that ridiculous stuff about Mary. She's just a woman God chose to be the mother of Jesus. Great privilege, but she's just as human and equal to sin and salvation as any of us are. I'm not sure what you're really asking, but anything involving them isn't good. Just listen to what the Pope says and see what he's been doing, trying to say even Buddhists, Satanists, Muslims and other religions can be saved too, then they base it on love and such. Nonsense. People aren't saved believing in other gods and going against the word of God.

 

[Grip Docility]

There are significant differences in theology among Christians, particularly between Catholics and Evangelical non-Catholics like myself, even concerning essential matter of salvation.

For many of us upon coming to faith in Christ freedom from condemnation is guaranteed and the person is eternally secure in his fate, as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 And we find much scriptural support for this interpretation.

In contrast Catholicism parses between what they call "initial salvation" which is just the initial stage of th process of salvation culminating in "final salvation" which is when God decides one's fate - heaven or hell.

Concerning "initial salvation" they will agree that it is by faith alone. And so based on that fact they'll claim to believe in salvation by faith apart from works. But that is misleading. Here's the Catholic Catechism concerning "Final Salvation".

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments
The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them; the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.

A idea of which many of us refer to as "salvation by works". By "Commandments" they actually go much further than simply the 10 commandments. For example according to Catholics it's a mortal sin to use a condom during sex. (Can't find that in the 10 commandments) You have to become a Catholic to learn all the plethora of rules and regulations that Catholicism classifies as "commandments" upon which "Final Salvation" is contingent.

So you can see why Catholics may belittle those of us who read the Bible much differently.

That’s a good way to ensure a congregation grows.

 

[ChicanaRose]

So just to be clear to all...I am happy for Catholics that they are Catholics.

I just struggle with some of them who are not equally happy for me and my parents but keep insisting to pray that my parents will come to the fullness of truth.

 

[Grip Docility]

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

Tux... I hope to God that you're not calling "The Creation" the "Narrow Gate".

When Jesus said this... "John 14:6"... He meant that He was "The Way" as in this...

Jesus is the Tabernacle... and when He said this... about "coming to the Father"... He meant that He is the Gate Way to the Tabernacle... and when you see inside the Tabernacle... You see this...

Which Jesus is the very "Effulgence" of the "Glory".

Now... if you don't realize that He meant... This...

And seriously think the "Brick and Mortar" Gathering of men are the "Narrow Way"...

You have just exalted the Creation above the Creator. (Romans 1)

But I'm sure I misunderstood you... right?

 

[Tone]

So just to be clear to all...I am happy for Catholics that they are Catholics.

I just struggle with some of them who are not equally happy for me and my parents but keep insisting to pray that my parents will come to the fullness of truth.

How are you even interacting with them...family (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus was crucified because it was His plan to inaugurate the New Covenant in His blood, not because of "attitudes".

So is there a reason why Jesus wept when he came into Jerusalem and they did not know that it was their visitation?

Jesus was crucified because the religious elite were threatened by Him and wanted to remain the moral authority.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you get more excited with the fact that the person is following the LORD;
or with the fact that the person now "gets" your denominational theology?

The reason I ask is because my ancestors (all the way up to my grandparents) were pagans--pretty hard core too, hiring mediums and fortune-tellers.

Usually, when I share testimony about how my parents got saved, people rejoice.

This has not been the case with hardcore Catholics. It's like my parents are not "good enough" for them because they are Protestants.

Why is it that I receive from them comments like:

"Well, that's a great start for your parents. But let's pray that they will come to the fullness of truth through the Catholic church"

?

When was I growing up, I thought of Catholics as people born into a religion, but didn't really understand it very well because that was my general experience of Catholics growing up. I think you can find a similar element in Protestant churches as well.

Your question, Is Salvation enough? Is a good one, but the question remains if all people attending said churches are actually born again by the Holy Spirit. Also if the hardcore people you were interacting with were born again or only born into the religion, and only had the religion ... it is hard to say, because they are not here to discuss with us.

Being born again, really isn't enough though, we need to keep growing, keep maturing, continue in the heavenward direction.

When we get into a stagnant state where all people focus on is square one of salvation, there are less opportunities to continue maturing or growing. And less and less places for those living daily in the spiritual reality of Christ to find fellowship due many groups having a satisfaction with just one experience of God.

so no, it is not enough.

 

[ChicanaRose]

How are you even interacting with them...family (if you don't mind my asking)?

I am a former Catholic convert (went through RCIA and left several years later) so I still have connections to people from the Church.