Eve came from Adam, evolution does not allow this

[-57]

The point is their disobedience and that they wanted to have knowledge, to be like gods, not that it was a literal tree. The point of Genesis is not to teach us botany.

the Bible says there were trees in the garden. Was your garden a desert?

 

[dad]

So, you do not agree that to understand those human authors you should learn about their background, language, style of writing?

To be saved, we just need to believe. Now some want to delve deeply into various aspects of the bible, so they might try to add to their experience by learning nuances and history and etc. This involves first believing what we read, and anything else is icing on the cake. One may not use nuances to overrule or take away things such as Adam and Eve or the flood that killed most life on earth, or miracles, or people...etc. A bit like paint on a house, you can't make a house out of paint, the paint just brings out, hopefully some detail and beauty, and improves the experience.

If you would write something and used words like "calvinism, OSAS, superman, ironman, batman, social media, UFO, FBI, theory of relativity, European union, Facebook" and somebody in 1000 BC would read that, how could he understand what you mean? He would need to first learn about your culture and language.

They had words that covered the concepts.

Or you could use writing style/genre unknown to him, for example you could rewrite some Shakespeare play to be a polemic, more godly play - he would not understand that, he would think you are writing about something you witnessed.

One could play all kinds of games. However since the bible is from God we can relax.

Why dont you agree with such simple concept? Oh, because it would put your surface literal reading of their literature away.

The idea of leaning to man's wisdom to weld and rewrite, and blast God's word into submission is not a good idea.

Hints:
- are there words in Genesis, commonly used in their culture to symbolize something?

Irrelevant. If God says He made a woman from the man, it doesn't matter what pagan meanings for woman or man are! If He says there was a tree, and the man ate fruit, then it doesn't matter what mind bending other possible meanings you can dredge up for tree or fruit if all you do with them is try to replace the truth of Scripture with THEM.

- are there any similar pagan writings about creation, Flood etc. the Genesis authors knew about and tried to be polemical against?

One would suspect that the poor pagans had some story, however messed up of actual events like the flood! Turns out they do.

 

[JacksBratt]

But I’m now calling you are anyone else out because of your interpretation. I don't understand how you can say that since I have said throughout this thread that you are free to your interpretation of scripture just as I am free to my interpretation.

Ok, the difference here is that when I take the bread and the cup, it is physically obvious that it is not blood, nor is the bread flesh. Combine that with the fact that Jesus was physically there when He made the statement and His disciples were not freaked out be eating another human....

Compare that to the simple historical account of the creation being six days.

There is no relation between the two.

 

[Archivist]

Ok, the difference here is that when I take the bread and the cup, it is physically obvious that it is not blood, nor is the bread flesh. Combine that with the fact that Jesus was physically there when He made the statement and His disciples were not freaked out be eating another human....

Compare that to the simple historical account of the creation being six days.

There is no relation between the two.

Interesting, because when I take the cup it is blood. When I take the bread it is flesh.

So you are saying that the words of our savior are irrelevant?

 

[dad]

I think you should just drop it dad because not only have you been completely dishonest with your arguments but you are repeating what already been answered.

I know you are, but what am I?

Being inspired by the Holy Spirit doesn't mean the writers where dictated. There is 0 reason for anybody to assume the Holy Spirit gave these men a package deal by including a complete guide to everything about the Physical universe.

People God gives part of the picture to do not need to see it all.

The 3 of you have shown how low your respect (or just understanding) is for intellectualism.

When people exalt their pipsqueak little wisdom or attempts at wisdom OVER God and His word to man, their stinking efforts wreak to high heaven. Like filthy mentrous rags.

And what's worse is that you enforce yourselves by repping your arguments to have this "holy

credibility" (being Bible believers) just for discrediting the value of evidence.

Why abuse the English language and all that is decent and good in the world by even using the word evidence!? You thought you had evidence Paul and Jesus and Peter and Genesis and Psalms were wrong about creation or the way God made woman etc!!!!!!? That is delusional.

 

[Archivist]

When people exalt their pipsqueak little wisdom or attempts at wisdom OVER God and His word to man, their stinking efforts wreak to high heaven. Like filthy mentrous rags.

Still waiting for an answer to my question, dad. Are the elements of Holy Communion the body and blood of Jesus? He said they were.

 

[dad]

No, as I have said multiple times, Paul was reading Genesis according to the understanding of his time.

Which you think was mistaken. God, then was limited to some mistaken understanding with the apostles. I see.

Now, you still have not answered my question. Is Holy Communion the actual body and blood of Jesus?

It represents His sacrifice. Did you think the blood of lambs in Egypt or sacrifices of Israel were actually salvation, or representing Jesus who would come one day? The message in the bible is that only through Jesus can we be saved, because He died for us. That does not mean there was no lambs sacrificed, no temple, no priesthood etc etc. No way can you use representations to wave away creation or Eve.

 

[dad]

As a Christian how could I see the body and blood of Jesus as allegory? You are, of course, free to your own interpretation of the Gospel.

Let me get this straight, when drinking wine in remembrance of Jesus you actually think you are drinking human blood!? But you also think there was no real Eve the mother of all living. Interesting.

I think we could scientifically test your latter claim!

 

[trophy33]

To be saved, we just need to believe. Now some want to delve deeply into various aspects of the bible, so they might try to add to their experience by learning nuances and history and etc. This involves first believing what we read, and anything else is icing on the cake. One may not use nuances to overrule or take away things such as Adam and Eve or the flood that killed most life on earth, or miracles, or people...etc. A bit like paint on a house, you can't make a house out of paint, the paint just brings out, hopefully some detail and beauty, and improves the experience.
They had words that covered the concepts.
One could play all kinds of games. However since the bible is from God we can relax.
The idea of leaning to man's wisdom to weld and rewrite, and blast God's word into submission is not a good idea.
Irrelevant. If God says He made a woman from the man, it doesn't matter what pagan meanings for woman or man are! If He says there was a tree, and the man ate fruit, then it doesn't matter what mind bending other possible meanings you can dredge up for tree or fruit if all you do with them is try to replace the truth of Scripture with THEM.

One would suspect that the poor pagans had some story, however messed up of actual events like the flood! Turns out they do.

All your ideas and answers here are wrong, because you ignore human writers, their culture and language and think that God dictated whole the Bible in some kind of universal language so you can get everything without any effort or learning.

 

[trophy33]

the Bible says there were trees in the garden. Was your garden a desert?

I did not have any garden.

 

[dad]

All your ideas and answers here are wrong, because you ignore human writers, their culture and language and think that God dictated whole the Bible in some kind of universal language so you can get everything without any effort or learning.

That's nice.

 

[trophy33]

JOHN 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

It is not about animals, its only about rational people who are able to understand the message.

 

[Archivist]

Which you think was mistaken. God, then was limited to some mistaken understanding with the apostles. I see.

You are good at making stuff up as I said no such thing.

It represents His sacrifice. Did you think the blood of lambs in Egypt or sacrifices of Israel were actually salvation, or representing Jesus who would come one day? The message in the bible is that only through Jesus can we be saved, because He died for us. That does not mean there was no lambs sacrificed, no temple, no priesthood etc etc. No way can you use representations to wave away creation or Eve.

So when one or more unknown Bronze Era individuals write two conflicting accounts of creation we are to believe them absolutely, but when Jesus tells us something it is just a representation.

 

[Archivist]

Let me get this straight, when drinking wine in remembrance of Jesus you actually think you are drinking human blood!? But you also think there was no real Eve the mother of all living. Interesting.

I think we could scientifically test your latter claim!

And you are ignoring the plain meaning of the words of our Savior, while believing an allegory as factual. Interesting.

You said earlier that you were a Bible believer. Why do you choose to not accept this portion of the New Testament?

 

[-57]

So when one or more unknown Bronze Era individuals write two conflicting accounts of creation we are to believe them absolutely, but when Jesus tells us something it is just a representation.

I've heard anti-Genesis people make that claim. I've looked into it several times and always find that claim to be false.

 

[-57]

I've posted this several times and not one of the Theo-Evos want to answer the question.

The following is condensed from Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melki, Jannai, Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Nahum, Esli, Naggai, Maath, Mattathias, Semein, Josech, Joda, Joanan, Rhesa, Zerubbabel, Shealtiel, Neri, Melki, Addi, Cosam, Elmadam, Er, Joshua, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi, Simeon, Judah, Joseph, Jonam, Eliakim, Melea, Menna, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Boaz, Salmon, Nahshon, Amminadab, Ram, Hezron, Perez, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Terah, Nahor, Serug, Reu, Peleg, Eber, Shelah, Cainan, Arphaxad, Shem, Noah, Lamech, Methuselah, Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, Kenan, Enosh, Seth, Adam, God.

Can you point out where the genealogy goes from Fact to fiction?

 

[Archivist]

I've heard anti-Genesis people make that claim. I've looked into it several times and always find that claim to be false.

The order of creation differs between the two accounts, so you couldn't have spent much time looking into it.

So, are the elements of Holy Communion the body and blood of Jesus? He said they are.

 

[Cis.jd]

I've posted this several times and not one of the Theo-Evos want to answer the question.

The following is condensed from Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melki, Jannai, Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Nahum, Esli, Naggai, Maath, Mattathias, Semein, Josech, Joda, Joanan, Rhesa, Zerubbabel, Shealtiel, Neri, Melki, Addi, Cosam, Elmadam, Er, Joshua, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi, Simeon, Judah, Joseph, Jonam, Eliakim, Melea, Menna, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Boaz, Salmon, Nahshon, Amminadab, Ram, Hezron, Perez, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Terah, Nahor, Serug, Reu, Peleg, Eber, Shelah, Cainan, Arphaxad, Shem, Noah, Lamech, Methuselah, Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, Kenan, Enosh, Seth, Adam, God.

Can you point out where the genealogy goes from Fact to fiction?

This has not only been explained to you but dumbed down over and over again. Metaphors don't mean the story is fiction or the events and people never existed. It's the details about them that are articulated artistically or based on the understanding of the culture during that time.

You've been told, not just here, but in your own thread yet you are still repeating the same questions showing your remaining ignorance of what you are talking about.

 

[dad]

You are good at making stuff up as I said no such thing.

If Paul was echoing mistaken ideas of his time rather than God....it is what it is.

So when one or more unknown Bronze Era individuals write two conflicting accounts of creation we are to believe them absolutely, but when Jesus tells us something it is just a representation.

Only one creation order...chap two is details after the fact..nit some other order. But we see your contempt for people long ago that the Almighty used to write scripture.

 

[dad]

And you are ignoring the plain meaning of the words of our Savior, while believing an allegory as factual. Interesting.

You said earlier that you were a Bible believer. Why do you choose to not accept this portion of the New Testament?

The fruit of the vine was referred to after the prayer...it was still wine not blood. We need some sense of reality and context and the spirit of God gives it to us if we are sincere.