Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

[mkgal1]

Keras ~ I'm guessing, since you hit "agreed" on my post #513, that you only read where I quoted a belief that I disagree with and didn't read that entire post - correct?

 

[mkgal1]

We all live in a world far from the ideal as it will be when Jesus reigns. God has given Jesus the Kingly authority, Psalms 2 and 110, we await the fulfilment of everything prophesied for the end times, before the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.

Noted that's your stance.

However, I agree with the Orthodox faith that He has defeated His last enemy of death and we don't have to wait for that.

 

[parousia70]

The last days is the whole period from Christ until the end time and the return of Christ. Imagine the last half of a football game. Its just as long as the first half...but it's the last half. Regarding the biblical 'game' it's simply a 'first and last' thing, divided by the time of Christ.

....and the Last Hour?
How long is that and when did it start?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I actually brought that up on this other thread if you/others are interested

No, we are not interested in preterist nonsense!
Bringing up all that past stuff is not helpful to us today, as we face all the dramatic and earth shaking events of the end times.
.

There may be some here that are interested in past fulfillment/preterism.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

1914: How to Enjoy the Bible "The words are exactly the same in both passages (in the Greek): "He that endureth to the END the same shall be saved." The command is continued in the next verse (10:23): "But when they persecute you in this city flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of Man be come." (Greek, elqh (elthe), shall have come.) If this coming be the same as the destruction of Jerusalem (as is generally supposed) then it is perfectly certain that the Twelve could not have gone on proclaiming the kingdom as being "at hand" for nearly forty years after it had been rejected, and the King crucified!"

As an aside, there are also some here that are not interested, nor agree, with futuristic nonsense..........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Poll results as of today:

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?
Edit

1. 
   No
   28 vote(s)
   43.8%
2. Yes
   32 vote(s)
   50.0%
3. I don't know
   4 vote(s)
   6.3%
4. Other
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%

 

[mkgal1]

No, we are not interested in preterist nonsense!

......as my dad used to say, "Who is 'we' - do you have a frog in your pocket?".

 

[mindlight]

The kingdom of Israel is a kingdom, not a democracy. If you haven't brought back the kingdom, then you haven't brought back ancient Israel. David was specifically promised that his line would reign over Israel forever. Do you see that happening in what is called Israel, today? Is there any chance of it happening? No, but we do have a king from the line of David who rules over spiritual Israel, and his name is Jesus.

A King that a Messianic Jew recognises as His own

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mkgal1 said: ↑
I feel the need to preface this post with the disclaimer that most of this "end time" study is very new to me (within the last few months) - so, while I may be quite a bit behind a lot of you and am a bit wobbly, this isn't the ONLY view I've been exposed to.

I believe you're of this belief and would agree with this (am I correct?):

OldWiseGuy said: ↑
Interesting, but hardly relevant to the birthright promise, which was to be conferred to Joseph after all the events of the "former days" , and the death of Christ.

As stated before the conferring of the birthright blessing has everything to do with the latter day preaching of the gospel.

That said Christ will indeed possess both when he returns and will share both with mankind in the millennium. The resurrected disciples will share rulership, the scepter, with Christ, and the whole earth will enjoy the blessings of abundance.

mkgal1 said: ↑
It may not be relevant to YOUR understanding of the birthright promise - but it has everything to do with it.
Matthew 21:38 ~ But when the tenants saw the Son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’
ISTM that you're quoting beliefs from the LDS manual.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I actually brought that up on this other thread if you/others are interested

keras said: ↑
No, we are not interested in preterist nonsense!

......as my dad used to say, "Who is 'we' - do you have a frog in your pocket?".

We will have to let the readers discern ........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus going out of the Temple
Mark 13:1
And of His going out<1607> of the Temple
Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple

Matthew 24:
11 And many false prophets shall be being roused<1453> and shall be deceiving<4105> many.
12 And because the being multiplied the lawlessness<458>, shall be being cooled<5594> the love of the many.

Matthew 24
24 For shall be roused false christs and false prophets,
and shall be giving great signs and miracles, so as to deceive, if possible, the Elect.
25 Behold! I have declared before to ye.

Mark 13:
22 Shall be roused false christs and false prophets
and they shall be giving signs and miracles, toward the to be deceiving, if possible, also the Elect.
23 Ye yet be being aware. Behold! I have declared before to ye all.

Luke 21:8
The yet He said "be being aware! no ye may be being deceived.
For many shall be coming upon the Name of Me, saying 'I am' and 'the time/season is nigh'
No then be being gone after them.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Amongst the tragical events which at this time occured, the following is more particularly deserving of notice : a false prophet, pretending to a divine commission, affirmed that, if the people would repair to the Temple, they should behold signs of their speedy deliverance.
Accordingly about six thousand persons, chiefly women and children, assembled in a gallery, that was yet standing, on the outside of the building.
Whilst they waited in anxious expectation of the promised miracle, the Romans with the most wanton barbarity, set fire to the gallery ; from which, multitudes; rendered frantic by their horrible situation, precipitated themselves on the ruins below, and were killed by the fall : while, awful to relate, the rest, without a single exception, perished in the flames.

So necessary was our Lord's second premonition not to give credit to "false prophets," who should pretend "to shew great signs and wonders." In this last caution, as the connexion of the prophecy demonstrates, he evidently refers to the period of the siege, but in the former to the interval immediately preceeding the Jewish war. (Vide Matt. xxiv. Compare 5, and 23, 24, 25, 26, verses.),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.
===============================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Rev 18:
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying "Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
18 And they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her firing/burning<4451>, saying, "What like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
================================
EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA/LAKE OF FIRE"

Ezekiel 22:17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver.
19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger<639> and in My fury<2534>, and I will leave [you there] and melt you.
21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath<5678>, and you shall be melted in its midst. 22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst;
then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury<2534> on you.'

 

[mkgal1]

we I await the fulfilment of everything prophesied for the end times

For the sake of clarity - would you post a list of what YOU are waiting for to be fulfilled that hasn't been already?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

keras said: ↑
we I await the fulfilment of everything prophesied for the end times

For the sake of clarity - would you post a list of what YOU are waiting for to be fulfilled that hasn't been already?

The Jews also have a list.
One example is that they make mention of the time statements of Jesus concerning the KoG.

Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus

Messiah's Qualifications
Messiah is a prophet, a scholar and a pious king. Jesus made a prediction that "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15)
That was 2000 years ago, has the kingdom of God come? Do you call the holocaust, Pol Pot and Stalin a world in which the kingdom of God has come? Jesus was not a great scholar - one of the requirements of the Messiah. Was Jesus a king? He was not anointed as king by a prophet (as was the rule in Jewish kings), he was not appointed by any judicial body as a leader and he did not rule over the Jewish people nor was he accepted by them. He was arrested, tortured and killed by the Romans like a common criminal. He had no army or government. The answer to my question is an obvious, "no..........................
==============================
According to Luke 21:31 the KoG would appear AFTER the destruction of the Jew's carnal kingdom, the OC Temple and Priesthood 70AD

Luke 21:31 Kingdom of God comes

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:32
Yet from the fig-tree be ye learning! the parable:
Whenever already its branch may be becoming tender, and the leaves may be sprouting<1631>,
ye are knowing that nigh the summer
Mark 13:28
‘Yet from the fig-tree, be ye learning the parable.
When the branch of it tender may be becoming, and may be sprouting<1631> the leaves,
ye are knowing that nigh is the summer
Luke 21:
29 And He told a parable to them. Be seeing the fig-tree and all the trees,
30 whenever they should be budding<4261> already observing from yourselves
ye are knowing thru that already nigh is the summer
31“So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

 

[mkgal1]

From the above link:

Quoting article:
Messianic Predictions

The main predictions concerning the Messiah are that he will bring peace to the world, gather the Jewish people from their exile to the land of Israel and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. After Jesus' appearance, the Temple was destroyed, the Jews were exiled all over the world and we have not even had one day of peace in the past 2,000 years. (Many of the wars in fact were started and fought by followers of Jesus) These events are enough to show that he was not the messiah. - Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus

Ironically, I see the same convictions stated in this thread - but, instead of arguing that He isn't the Messiah, it's being argued that He will fulfill prophecy later.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So you're suggesting that Christ does NOT already have the birthright nor the scepter? That you are waiting for the fulfillment of that off in the future (based on your use of future tense)?

Yes. Shiloh hasn't come yet. Owning something and possessing it can be two different things. I own the money in my bank accounts but someone else possesses it, until I go to the bank and claim it.

I believe the Queen of England sits on the throne of David, keeping it warm for Christ, should he return during her reign.

Jesus is heir of all things but not yet the inheritor of all things.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I guess I'm not making my point very clear.

Originally, I had posted these verses (and posted that when I read what Jesus said - I believe Him):

Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; and Luke 21:32 ~ Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” ~ Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?​

......and then you responded with this:



.....to which I responded with this post:



......and then you posted this in response (which seems to completely miss my point and has nothing to do with my post):

Sorry, I was still responding to Matt 10.

 

[jgr]

Yes. Shiloh hasn't come yet. Owning something and possessing it can be two different things. I own the money in my bank accounts but someone else possesses it, until I go to the bank and claim it.l

I believe the Queen of England sits on the throne of David, keeping it warm for Christ, should he return during her reign.

Jesus is heir of all things but not yet the inheritor of all things.

Dictionary definition of "own":
1. have (something) as one's own; possess.

Dictionary definition of "possess":
1. have as belonging to one; own.

The two words are synonymous, nor is there any Scripture which states or implies that they are different.

Christ took immediate ownership and possession at His death of all that had been bequeathed to Him by His Father. (Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 1:2). Nothing awaits.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The end wasn't their lifetime - it was the coming of the Son of Man (a reference to the prophecy of Daniel).

Of course. Jesus' statement was a cryptic allusion to a far future date of his return.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mkgal1 said: ↑
I believe these were fulfilled in Jesus' birth. "Line of Judah"; "Son of David"; "Son of Abraham"; "Root of Jesse"..............

OldWiseGuy said: ↑
That was the 'scepter' promise. The birthright is a different promise.

1 Chronicles 5:2
For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's...

The birthright promise has nothing to do with the scepter promise, although many conflate the two. What the birthright promise did however, was create an environment for the gospel to be preached in it's fullness. In other words God's word took root in those nations to whom the birthright promise was enjoyed in it's fullness.

mkgal1 said: ↑
I feel the need to preface this post with the disclaimer that most of this "end time" study is very new to me (within the last few months) - so, while I may be quite a bit behind a lot of you and am a bit wobbly, this isn't the ONLY view I've been exposed to.

I believe you're of this belief and would agree with this (am I correct?):

Quoting "The Trumpet" article:
In passing on the birthright promise the dying Jacob (Israel) said of Ephraim and Manasseh, sons of Joseph, “… let my name be named on them” (Genesis 48:16). Hence it is they—the descendants of Ephraim (the British) and Manasseh (Americans)—not the Jews, who are referred to in prophecy under the names of Jacob or Israel. Continuing, Jacob added, “… and let them grow into a multitude.”......................

OldWiseGuy said: ↑
As stated before the conferring of the birthright blessing has everything to do with the latter day preaching of the gospel.

That said Christ will indeed possess both when he returns and will share both with mankind in the millennium.

mkgal1 said: ↑
So you're suggesting that Christ does NOT already have the birthright nor the scepter? That you are waiting for the fulfillment of that off in the future (based on your use of future tense)?

Yes. Shiloh hasn't come yet. Owning something and possessing it can be two different things. I own the money in my bank accounts but someone else possesses it, until I go to the bank and claim it.l I believe the Queen of England sits on the throne of David, keeping it warm for Christ, should he return during her reign.
Jesus is heir of all things but not yet the inheritor of all things.

Oh my. Just when I think I have heard it all...........

Did you come up with that all by yourself? I gotta admit, I have never heard of that view until now.

Galatians 4:3
so also we, when we were babes, under the elements of the world were in servitude, 9 and now, having known God -- and rather being known by God -- how turn ye again unto the weak and beggarly elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude? 25 for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and and is together-elemental to the Jerusalem that now is, and is in servitude with her children,

She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns

Rev 18:7Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'

This is describing Mystery Babylon whom God despises and uses the Beast to destroy her.

It's a kind of riddle. She boasts, so she is proud. She considers herself a queen. Since every queen has a king, who is the King? Obviously, the King is dead but strangely she doesn't consider herself a widow and says she'll never mourn. Why? If she considers herself the all-powerful queen/bride of a RISEN KING (Christ), then she is truly not a widow and will never mourn.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
7 As much as glorifies herself, and indulges be giving to her tormenting and mourning that in her heart she is saying
'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

Lam 1:1
How deserted lies the City, once so full of people!
How like a widow is She, who once was great among the nations!
She who was Queen among the provinces has now become a slave.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.

 

[jgr]

Oh my. Just when I think I have heard it all...........

Did you come up with that all by yourself? I gotta admit, I have never heard of that view until now.

Interpretation by imagination hath no boundaries.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Dictionary definition of "own":
1. have (something) as one's own; possess.

Dictionary definition of "possess":
1. have as belonging to one; own.

The two words are synonymous, nor is there any Scripture which states or implies that they are different.

Christ took immediate ownership and possession at His death of all that had been bequeathed to Him by His Father. (Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 1:2). Nothing awaits.

Nothing except the kingdoms of the world. Also the Kingdom of God is in the hands of the church until Christ returns as Lord.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

What I mean by possess is having something in your possession. Jesus is heir to all things, but not yet the possessor of all things.


Definition of possess
transitive verb

1a : to have and hold as property : own

2a : to seize and take control of : take into one's possession

 

[jgr]

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Present tense. True when spoken.

 

[jgr]

but not yet the possessor of all things.

Scripture?