Convince me of Annihilationism

[justbyfaith]

These discussions are typically with people who are followers of Jesus. They're troubled that their Christian beliefs don't seem consistent with the picture Jesus gives us of God.

The concept of eternal flames is not contrary to the concept of a loving God.

Jesus offers us, at the Cross, the option of having our sin dealt with.

There is a cry out for eternity to be without pain, suffering, crying, sorrow, or death; but sin is the cause of all of these things.

If we will not surrender to the righteousness of Christ, and give our sins to Him so that they are removed from us, the fact of the matter is, all sin is going to be cast into the lake of fire; and, if we will not be separated from our sin, it is still going to be cast there, in order that heaven might truly be heavenly.

If a man does not surrender his sin to Christ, then he is deserving of punishment of the lake of fire. Because the Lord has done everything possible to redeem that person, and they rejected the solution, because they wanted to keep their sin. So then, in their lives, Jesus died for nothing. And yet He still paid the cost for their redemption. So they are rejecting a costly gift because they prefer to live the way that they want to live, they do not want the Lord's righteousness that He offers them.

So they will dwell in eternity with those who are sinful; with murderers, rapists, molesters, etc., because when sin is separated from holiness so that heaven can be truly holy and heavenly, all sin will be lumped together in the same place, dwelling in those who would not be redeemed from it.

Fact is, no one knows if there would ever be an end to the suffering of eternal fire. We do know that the fire is not quenched and their worm does not die (Mark 9). So if the worm doesn't die there what makes you think you will? There is this idea that there will be nothing left but worms in hell, once everyone has been annihilated but the worms. But that is not much of a heaven for the worms.

 

[Der Alte]

Follow on to the previous post. The argument above is that since aion/aionios sometimes refer to something which is not eternal, aion cannot ever mean eternity and aionios cannot ever mean eternal, everlasting etc.
.....There are many instances in the Bible where hyperbole is used to make a point. For example Herod was not literally a "old fox" when Jesus called him one. James and John were not literally "sons of thunder" when Jesus called them that.
.....In the following verses the phrase "all the world" and "the whole world" refer to something which cannot be "all the world"/"the whole world." While these verses do not specifically prove anything about aion/aionios it does demolish the above argument that because aion/aionios sometimes refer to something which is not eternal they cannot mean eternity/eternal

Matthew 16:26
(26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? [Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25]​

Can a person literally inherit the "whole world?"

1 John 5:19
(19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.​

Was "the whole world" literally under the control of the evil one?

Revelation 12:9
(9) The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.​

Did Satan literally lead "the whole world" astray?

Revelation 13:3
(3) One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.​

Did "the whole world" literally follow the beast?

Genesis 41:57 And all the world came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe everywhere.​

Did "all the world" literally buy grain from Egypt?

Acts 17:6 But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city officials, shouting: "These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here,​

Did the disciples literally cause trouble "all over the world?"

Acts 19:35 The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: "Fellow Ephesians, doesn't all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?​

Did "all the world" literally know that Ephesus was the guardian of the pagan deity Artemis?

Acts 24:5 "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect.​

Was Paul literally stirring up riots "all over the world?"

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.​

Did Caesar literally tax "all the world?"

Acts 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth​

Did "all the world" literally worship the goddess Diana?

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Was the faith of the Romans literally spoken of throughout "the whole world?"
Let us use the fallacious aion/aionios argument on these verses. The word "world" cannot ever literally mean the entire planet earth because it is used to describe things that are not literally "the whole world" and "all the world."

 

[justbyfaith]

Sng 8:6, Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Sng 8:7, Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

 

[hedrick]

There are many instances in the Bible where hyperbole is used to make a point. For example Herod was not literally a "old fox" when Jesus called him one. James and John were not literally "sons of thunder" when Jesus called them that.
In the following verses the phrase "all the world" and "the whole world" refer to something which cannot be "all the world"/"the whole world." While these verses do not specifically prove anything about aion/aionios it does demolish the above argument that because aion/aionios sometimes refers to something which is not eternal they cannot mean eternity/eternal

Yes, I think that's right. My reading of lexicons and passages using the term is that aionios is eternal, but that often things are referred to as eternal that aren't literally going to go on forever. The consequences for this discussion may be similiar though.

Aside from the fact that "eternal" sometimes isn't, in the OT we sometimes have images of eternal fire consuming the bodies of people who are already dead. It's the fire, not the dying that is eternal. Finally, sometime it seems to be talking about results, not process. E.g. Heb 6:2 speaks of eternal judgement. Probably the judgement doesn't go on forever.

To be honest, I wonder even about "eternal life." I can't help wondering whether time is the same for God and for us. Is eternal life really life with the same kind of linear time we now experience that goes on forever? Would I even want that?

 

[Butch5]

Here is the big hole in your argument. If αἰώνιος/aionios does not mean eternal and αἰών/aion does not mean eternity, which Greek word do you think does?
After having seen this fallacious argument over and over and over I decided to verify it for myself. Since those who make this argument will not accept any Greek authority which proves them wrong, e.g. Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich[BDAG] one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available, I reviewed every occurrence of each word in the NT.
In twenty one [21] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.

List of verses:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33, Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26.​

…..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

[1]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[2]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.

[3]Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]​

In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

[4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[5]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.​

In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only lasts a little longer which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.​

In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[7]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Petr, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”

[8]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”

[9]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”

[10]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[11]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[12]1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”

[13]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”

[14]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.​

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”

[15]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.​

In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and be immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[16]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”

[17]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.

[18]John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[19]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[20]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​

In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[21]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.​

In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[22]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."​

According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ ου μη/ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying whoever obeys Him will die, i.e. see death, unto the age, by definition aion means eternity.

Do you cut and paste this into every single thread dealing with this subject? There's no hole in the argument as I've proven to you time and again.

 

[Butch5]

Doesn't Annihilationism change the doctrine of the atonement? What did Jesus suffer on behalf of sinners? What did he bear on the cross that we wouldn't have to for an eternity?

I don't think it changes it. However, which model of the atonement you hold will be affected differently.

 

[Butch5]

The bible appears to state two different ideas regarding annihilation-ism. First it speak of the second death and second it says torment is eternal. So I'm really confused on the issue. Maybe I'll just have to wait to find out? And that's OK with me

It doesn't speak of eternal torment. It's in the English Bible because aion is mistranslated. The word aion means an age. What's happened is that translators have read their theology back into the Scriptures. For instance, if a passage says that God will sit on His throne aion. Translators will think God sits on His throne forever, therefore aion must mean forever. However, sometimes they miss figures of speech and colloquialisms. For instance, suppose I said, God is eternal so He'll be around for awhile. You understand what I'm saying. Does my statement now mean that "awhile" is defined as eternity? Obviously not. We know that that's a figure of speech. But this is what has happened to the word aion. People have read eternity back into it. We know that aion doesn't mean eternal because Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. If it meant eternal it wouldn't end. He also spoke of this aion and the aion to come. Again, if we replace aion with eternity it makes no sense, this eternity and the eternity to come? However, if by aion Jesus means age, such the church age we're in and the age to come, the kingdom it makes perfect sense.

 

[Butch5]

Just give me all the verses you have compiled that you believe can be interpreted as Annihilationism.

Is there a particular aspect of the doctrine that you're interested in?

 

[hedrick]

I haven't found lexicon support for aionion meaning "an age." What I have found is that a variety of additional implications came, based on context. In some uses it can be lifelong. But they're based on the original literal meanings. TDNT identifies several:

* of God
* of divine possessions and gifts
* of the object of eschatological expectations, e.g. Heb 9:15, eternal inheritance

Some uses focus on aspects that aren't temporal at all, whether everlasting or of an age. On the other hand, I believe the literal meaning is still there in the background. But there are certainly non-literal uses. E.g. eternal judgement is not judgement that lasts forever, but perhaps the results do. In Ps 23:7 we have "everlasting doors." It's clear that the doors of the Temple aren't still there. But probably this was the same kind of non-literal as various "eternal flames," which clearly won't actually last forever.

Just how literal that eternity is meant in some of these expressions is up for discussion, but non-literal uses of the word don't change its original meaning to something else.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you cut and paste this into every single thread dealing with this subject? There's no hole in the argument as I've proven to you time and again.

Wrong! You have NOT proven anything to me or anyone else. Assumptions, presuppositions and empty assertions are not proof.
Cut and paste implies something was copied from an unidentified source in-toto and presented as one's own writing. In that sense I never "cut and paste" anything. If I quote a source I clearly identify the source. But the post you are calling "cut and paste" was all my own research. This is my "job" so I have more than ample time to do all the necessary research.
Despite your claims to the contrary you have not even tried to address the 23 verses I quoted above.
And just for your edification my posts, while addressed to specific posters, are for the benefit of anyone who might be deceived by all the false teaching posted in this forum.

 

[Butch5]

Wrong! You have NOT proven anything to me or anyone else. Assumptions, presuppositions and empty assertions are not proof.
Cut and paste implies something was copied from an unidentified source in-toto and presented as one's own writing. In that sense I never "cut and paste" anything. If I quote a source I clearly identify the source. But the post you are calling "cut and paste" was all my own research. This is my "job" so I have more than ample time to do all the necessary research.
Despite your claims to the contrary you have not even tried to address the 23 verses I quoted above.
And just for your edification my posts, while addressed to specific posters, are for the benefit of anyone who might be deceived by all the false teaching posted in this forum.

Wow, you've got this scripted don't you. "Wrong!" is always the first word in your corresponding post.

Cut and paste means you highlighted text in a document, hit coy and then pasted it elsewhere. Saying it's from an unidentified source and presented as one's own work would be plagiarism. I made no such claimed. As I

Wow, it's like this really is scripted. As I've said before, I've addressed your verse and shown the logical contradiction in your argument. But, feel free to present it, one more time.

 

[Butch5]

I haven't found lexicon support for aionion meaning "an age." What I have found is that a variety of additional implications came, based on context. In some uses it can be lifelong. But they're based on the original literal meanings. TDNT identifies several:

* of God
* of divine possessions and gifts
* of the object of eschatological expectations, e.g. Heb 9:15, eternal inheritance

Some uses focus on aspects that aren't temporal at all, whether everlasting or of an age. On the other hand, I believe the literal meaning is still there in the background. But there are certainly non-literal uses. E.g. eternal judgement is not judgement that lasts forever, but perhaps the results do. In Ps 23:7 we have "everlasting doors." It's clear that the doors of the Temple aren't still there. But probably this was the same kind of non-literal as various "eternal flames," which clearly won't actually last forever.

Just how literal that eternity is meant in some of these expressions is up for discussion, but non-literal uses of the word don't change its original meaning to something else.

That's why I say it can't mean eternity. Its' translated as an age often. As I said, I believe that eternal is read back into the definition. If the definition of aion is an age then ages of ages would be a very long time. If we go back to Olam the Hebrew word found in the OT which is translated as aion in the Septuagint. We find that Olam was used of both time and distance. If we look at it from a Jewish perspective, a walk through life, we find that olam meant over the horizon. Here's link to a short definition of olam. This concept of the Olam was translated in the Septuagint as aion. The translators were trying to convey the concept of Olam into Greek. LIke Olam, aion is a long period of time into the future or past. However, this concept is lost in English when aion is translated as eternity. Eternity doesn't carry the idea that olam and aion had.

 

[Der Alte]

Says nothing of eternal torment.
Says nothing of eternal torment.
That last one speaks of eternal punishment not eternal torment. The fate of the unsaved is the second death, and that punishment is eternal...to be dead eternally.
So, none of these passages speak of anyone being tormented alive for eternity.

Jesus is quoted as using the word for "death" 17 times. If He had intended to say "eternal death" in Matt25:46 there is no logical reason He said "punishment" instead of "death."
If "eternal punishment" does not mean "eternal punishing" then "eternal life" does not mean "eternal living." Can you see the error in that reasoning?
There is not one single verse which says that the unrighteous literally die then they literally die a second death.
What did "eternal punishment" mean to the early church.

“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection they knew everyone died old, young, men, women, children even infants and they knew it was permanent. Would they have understood the "eternal punishment" was "eternal death?" Justin Marty did not think "eternal punishment" meant "eternal death!"

 

[Der Alte]

That's why I say it can't mean eternity. Its' translated as an age often. As I said, I believe that eternal is read back into the definition. If the definition of aion is an age then ages of ages would be a very long time. If we go back to Olam the Hebrew word found in the OT which is translated as aion in the Septuagint. We find that Olam was used of both time and distance. If we look at it from a Jewish perspective, a walk through life, we find that olam meant over the horizon. Here's link to a short definition of olam. This concept of the Olam was translated in the Septuagint as aion. The translators were trying to convey the concept of Olam into Greek. LIke Olam, aion is a long period of time into the future or past. However, this concept is lost in English when aion is translated as eternity. Eternity doesn't carry the idea that olam and aion had.

Have you ever actually read a Greek or Hebrew lexicon? I won't bother with quoting Brown, Driver, Briggs [BDB] one of, if not, the most highly accredited Hebrew lexicons available.
You evidently place your assumptions/presuppositions above any credible language source.
As I did with aion and aionios I also reviewed every occurrence of olam and ad in the OT. Would you like to guess what I found?
…..Thirty eight [38] OT verses where the words “olam/ad” corresponds to or is contrasted with adjectives and adjectival phrases which describe/define the word “olam/ad” as eternal, everlasting etc.

Exodus 3:15
(15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever,[עולם/olam] and this is my memorial unto all generations.​

In this vs. “name olam” corresponds to “unto all generations.” “Age(s),”a finite period, does not correspond to “unto all generations,”“for ever” does.

Psalms 21:4
(4) He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[עד/ad]​

In this vs. “olam” and “ad” corresponds to “length of days”. “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to length of days, “for ever and ever” does.

Psalms 45:17
(17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[עד/ad]​

In this vs. “olam” and “ad” corresponds to “in all generations,” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “in all generations,” “for ever and ever” does.

Psa 33:11
(11) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, [ עולם] the thoughts of his heart to all generations.​

In this vs. “standeth olam” corresponds to “to all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.

Psa 146:10 The LORD will reign for ever, [עולם/olam] Thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Hallelujah.[“ all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]​

In this vs. “reign olam” corresponds to “unto all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.

Psa 37:28
(28) For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: [ עולם/olam] but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.​

In this vs. “preserved olam” is contrasted to “the wicked shall be cut off,””age(s),”a finite period, is not opposite of “the wicked shall be cut off,” “for ever” is.

Ecc 3:14
(14) I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever:[ עולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.​

In this vs. עולם/olam corresponds to. “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts. “Age(s),“a finite period, does not correspond to “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts, “for ever” does.

Isa 51:6
(6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished.​

In this vs. “salvation olam” corresponds to “shall not be abolished”, “age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “shall not be abolished,” “forever” is.

Isa 51:8
(8) For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my salvation from generation to generation.​

In this vs. “righteousness olam” corresponds to “from generation to generation” “age(s),”a finite period, does not correspond to “from generation to generation.” “for ever” does.

Dan 7:14
(14) He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting [ עולם] dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.​

In this vs. “olam dominion” corresponds to “will not pass away” and “never be destroyed.” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “will not pass away,””never be destroyed,” but “everlasting dominion” does.

Jer 23:40
(40) I will bring on you everlasting disgrace [ עולם]—everlasting shame [ עולם] that will not be forgotten."​

In this vs. “olam disgrace and shame” corresponds to “will not be forgotten.” “age(s) a finite period, does not correspond to “will not be forgotten,””everlasting” does.

Jer 50:5
(5) They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting [ עולם] covenant that will not be forgotten.​

In this vs. “olam covenant” corresponds to “will not be forgotten,””age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “will not be forgotten,” ”everlasting” does.

Exo 27:21
(21) In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.​

In this verse עולם/olam corresponds to “unto their generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “unto their generations,” “for ever” does.

Exo 30:21
(21) So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.​

[“throughout their generations “ also Lev 10:9, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:41, Num 10:8, 15:15, 18:23, Psa 145;13, Ex 40:15, Lev 7:36][/indent]
In this verse “statute עולם/olam” corresponds to “die not” and “throughout their generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “die not” and “throughout their. Generations,” “forever” does.

Psa 45:17
(17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[ עד/ad][“in all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]​

.
In this verse עולם/olam and . עד/ad corresponds with “in all generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “in all generations,” “for ever and ever” does.

Psa 148:6
(6) He hath also stablished them for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[ עד/ad] he hath made a decree which shall not pass.​

In this verse עולם/olam and עד/ad are corresponds to “shall not pass.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not pass.” “forever and ever” does.

Isa 55:13
(13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting [ עולם/olam] sign that shall not be cut off.​

”
In this verse “ עולם/olam sign” corresponds with ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting does.

[26]Isa 56:5
(5) Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting [ עולם/olam] name, that shall not be cut off.​

In this verse “ עולם/olam name” corresponds to ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting” does.

Jer 32:40
(40) And I will make an everlasting “[עולם/olam] covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.​

In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” corresponds to “I will not turn away” and ”they shall not depart from me.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “I will not turn away” and “they shall not depart from me.” “everlasting” does.

Jer 50:5
(5) They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual [עולם/olam] covenant that shall not be forgotten.​

In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” corresponds to ”shall not be forgotten” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be forgotten.” “perpetual covenant” does.

Lam 5:19
(19) Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; “[עולם/olam] thy throne from generation to generation.​

In this verse “עולם/olam” corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Dan 4:3
(3) How great are His signs! and how mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting [עלם/alam] kingdom, and His dominion is from generation to generation.[עם־דר ודר/am-dor w’dor]​

In this verse [עלם/alam] corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Dan 4:34
(34) And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, [עלם/alam] whose dominion is an everlasting [עלם/alam] dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:​

In this verse [עלם/alam] corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Jer 10:10-11
(10) But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal [עלם/alam] King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
(11) "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'"​

In this passage the living God, the eternal [עלם/alam] King has been contrasted with false gods which perish “the Living God the age(s)” is not the opposite of false gods that perish, the living God, the eternal is.

Isa 9:6-7
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting [עו/ ad] Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. [עולם/olam] The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

In this passage עולם/olam and עו/ad are paired with “shall be no end.” By definition עולם/olam and עו/ad mean “everlasting/shall be no end.”

 

[Der Alte]

Wow, you've got this scripted don't you. "Wrong!" is always the first word in your corresponding post.

Once again Wrong! I only say wrong when something is deliberately and egregiously incorrect.

Cut and paste means you highlighted text in a document, hit coy and then pasted it elsewhere. Saying it's from an unidentified source and presented as one's own work would be plagiarism. I made no such claimed.

Still more egregiously incorrect accusations. Anything I post here is my own work unless I state otherwise. As I said "cut and paste" according to Merriam-Webster means "pieced together by excerpting and combining fragments from multiple sources." Which usually has the connotation "plagiarized." Nothing I post fits this description. In my aion/aionios and olam/ad posts the only thing copied are the scripture verses everything else are my words.

Wow, it's like this really is scripted. As I've said before, I've addressed your verse and shown the logical contradiction in your argument. But, feel free to present it, one more time.

There is no, zero, none logical contradictions in any of my posts and once again I repeat you have NOT proved any of my posts to be wrong in any way.

 

[Butch5]

Have you ever actually read a Greek or Hebrew lexicon? I won't bother with quoting Brown, Driver, Briggs [BDB] one of, if not, the most highly accredited Hebrew lexicons available.
You evidently place your assumptions/presuppositions above any credible language source.
As I did with aion and aionios I also reviewed every occurrence of olam and ad in the OT. Would you like to guess what I found?
…..Thirty eight [38] OT verses where the words “olam/ad” corresponds to or is contrasted with adjectives and adjectival phrases which describe/define the word “olam/ad” as eternal, everlasting etc.

Exodus 3:15
(15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever,[עולם/olam] and this is my memorial unto all generations.​

In this vs. “name olam” corresponds to “unto all generations.” “Age(s),”a finite period, does not correspond to “unto all generations,”“for ever” does.

Psalms 21:4
(4) He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[עד/ad]​

In this vs. “olam” and “ad” corresponds to “length of days”. “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to length of days, “for ever and ever” does.

Psalms 45:17
(17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[עד/ad]​

In this vs. “olam” and “ad” corresponds to “in all generations,” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “in all generations,” “for ever and ever” does.

Psa 33:11
(11) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, [ עולם] the thoughts of his heart to all generations.​

In this vs. “standeth olam” corresponds to “to all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.

Psa 146:10 The LORD will reign for ever, [עולם/olam] Thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Hallelujah.[“ all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]​

In this vs. “reign olam” corresponds to “unto all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.

Psa 37:28
(28) For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: [ עולם/olam] but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.​

In this vs. “preserved olam” is contrasted to “the wicked shall be cut off,””age(s),”a finite period, is not opposite of “the wicked shall be cut off,” “for ever” is.

Ecc 3:14
(14) I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever:[ עולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.​

In this vs. עולם/olam corresponds to. “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts. “Age(s),“a finite period, does not correspond to “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts, “for ever” does.

Isa 51:6
(6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished.​

In this vs. “salvation olam” corresponds to “shall not be abolished”, “age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “shall not be abolished,” “forever” is.

Isa 51:8
(8) For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my salvation from generation to generation.​

In this vs. “righteousness olam” corresponds to “from generation to generation” “age(s),”a finite period, does not correspond to “from generation to generation.” “for ever” does.

Dan 7:14
(14) He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting [ עולם] dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.​

In this vs. “olam dominion” corresponds to “will not pass away” and “never be destroyed.” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “will not pass away,””never be destroyed,” but “everlasting dominion” does.

Jer 23:40
(40) I will bring on you everlasting disgrace [ עולם]—everlasting shame [ עולם] that will not be forgotten."​

In this vs. “olam disgrace and shame” corresponds to “will not be forgotten.” “age(s) a finite period, does not correspond to “will not be forgotten,””everlasting” does.

Jer 50:5
(5) They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting [ עולם] covenant that will not be forgotten.​

In this vs. “olam covenant” corresponds to “will not be forgotten,””age(s),” a finite period, does not correspond to “will not be forgotten,” ”everlasting” does.

Exo 27:21
(21) In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.​

In this verse עולם/olam corresponds to “unto their generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “unto their generations,” “for ever” does.

Exo 30:21
(21) So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.​

[“throughout their generations “ also Lev 10:9, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:41, Num 10:8, 15:15, 18:23, Psa 145;13, Ex 40:15, Lev 7:36][/indent]
In this verse “statute עולם/olam” corresponds to “die not” and “throughout their generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “die not” and “throughout their. Generations,” “forever” does.

Psa 45:17
(17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[ עד/ad][“in all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]​

.
In this verse עולם/olam and . עד/ad corresponds with “in all generations.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “in all generations,” “for ever and ever” does.

Psa 148:6
(6) He hath also stablished them for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[ עד/ad] he hath made a decree which shall not pass.​

In this verse עולם/olam and עד/ad are corresponds to “shall not pass.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not pass.” “forever and ever” does.

Isa 55:13
(13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting [ עולם/olam] sign that shall not be cut off.​

”
In this verse “ עולם/olam sign” corresponds with ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting does.

[26]Isa 56:5
(5) Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting [ עולם/olam] name, that shall not be cut off.​

In this verse “ עולם/olam name” corresponds to ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting” does.

Jer 32:40
(40) And I will make an everlasting “[עולם/olam] covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.​

In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” corresponds to “I will not turn away” and ”they shall not depart from me.” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “I will not turn away” and “they shall not depart from me.” “everlasting” does.

Jer 50:5
(5) They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual [עולם/olam] covenant that shall not be forgotten.​

In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” corresponds to ”shall not be forgotten” “Age(s)” does not correspond to “shall not be forgotten.” “perpetual covenant” does.

Lam 5:19
(19) Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; “[עולם/olam] thy throne from generation to generation.​

In this verse “עולם/olam” corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Dan 4:3
(3) How great are His signs! and how mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting [עלם/alam] kingdom, and His dominion is from generation to generation.[עם־דר ודר/am-dor w’dor]​

In this verse [עלם/alam] corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Dan 4:34
(34) And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, [עלם/alam] whose dominion is an everlasting [עלם/alam] dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:​

In this verse [עלם/alam] corresponds to “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not correspond to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.

Jer 10:10-11
(10) But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal [עלם/alam] King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
(11) "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'"​

In this passage the living God, the eternal [עלם/alam] King has been contrasted with false gods which perish “the Living God the age(s)” is not the opposite of false gods that perish, the living God, the eternal is.

Isa 9:6-7
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting [עו/ ad] Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. [עולם/olam] The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

In this passage עולם/olam and עו/ad are paired with “shall be no end.” By definition עולם/olam and עו/ad mean “everlasting/shall be no end.”

Ok, I'll take your first one and show you how your'e reading into the definition.

Exodus 3:15
(15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this ismy name for ever,[עולם/olam] and this is my memorial unto all generations.
In this vs. “name olam” corresponds to “unto all generations.” “Age(s),”a finite period, does not correspond to “unto all generations,”“for ever” does.


Show me where all generations is defined as eternal. You can't, you're just assuming it and reading back into definition.

34 For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them unto Aaron the priest and unto his sons by a statute for ever from among the children of Israel.
35 This is the portion of the anointing of Aaron, and of the anointing of his sons, out of the offerings of the LORD made by fire, in the day when he presented them to minister unto the LORD in the priest's office;
36 Which the LORD commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute for ever throughout their generations.
37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;
38 Which the LORD commanded Moses in mount Sinai, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai. (Lev. 7:34-38 KJV)

Red=olam

Here we have these statutes being described as forever throughout their generations. Does this mean eternal? No, it doesn't Jesus said that the Law and the Prophets were until John.

15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Lk. 16:15-16 KJV)

Paul said that the Aaronic Priesthood was changed.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Heb. 7:11-12 KJV)

Jesus said the Law and the Prophets were until John and Paul said that the Aaronic Priesthood had been changed. So clearly the statutes in the Law mentioned in Lev. 7 and the Aaronic Priesthood are NOT eternal. Thus, olam does not mean eternal. And, this is said to be throughout their generations. So clearly throughout their generations does not mean eternity.

 

[Butch5]

Once again Wrong! I only say wrong when something is deliberately and egregiously incorrect.

Still more egregiously incorrect accusations. Anything I post here is my own work unless I state otherwise. As I said "cut and paste" according to Merriam-Webster means "pieced together by excerpting and combining fragments from multiple sources." Which usually has the connotation "plagiarized." Nothing I post fits this description. In my aion/aionios and olam/ad posts the only thing copied are the scripture verses everything else are my words.

There is no, zero, none logical contradictions in any of my posts and once again I repeat you have NOT proved any of my posts to be wrong in any way.

Knock, knock, knock...time to wake up.

 

[mmksparbud]

(speaking as a man) I'm feeling cognitively dissonant.

I want to believe in Annihilationism Annihilationism - Wikipedia. I want to believe scriptures such as Psalms 37:10 Psalms 37:20 Psalms 37:36 refer to the eternal state of sinful man rather than speaking only about life here on earth.

In Genesis 4:13 Cain cries out that his punishment is more than he can bear. The Lord alleviates his punishment by warding off those who would seek his life.

Revelation 22:15 occurs after creation of the New Heavens and Earth, and it states "but outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie." Why mention those outside the Kingdom in such a way as though they were still practicing these sinful habits after Death and Hell have been cast into the Lake of Fire?

As a child of God, those that hold contempt in their hearts toward my Lord Jesus Christ are my enemies as per Psalms 139:22. Though I believe it is in accordance with Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:35 that we pray for them anyway. May God be merciful even to those wicked when they come before Him in judgement.

​

We never were created immortal. We are given immortality. Not even Adam and Eve were immortal-

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

They were driven from the garden to prevent them eating of the tree and living forever in sin. After the resurrection we get the tree back:

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Nowhere does the bible say eternal life will be given to the lost. We are not going to shovel fruit from the tree of life to the lost so they can live forever in torment!
We are given immortality as a gift from God.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co_15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Only the Godhead is immortal:
Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[ewq1938]

The nature of the everlasting punishment is that there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. The duration of it is that it will be everlasting.

No, the punishment is what is everlasting and the punishment is the second death not torture. It never says wailing and gnashing of teeth is everlasting.

 

[nolidad]

I believe (my understanding of scripture) that the Bible the way it is typically interpreted that a person in hell suffers in hell. 1 Corinthians 15 says the last enemy he destroys is death. Ezekiel chapter 18 says he takes no pleasure when any one perishes.

I think an eternity of suffering is a long time to suffer but what do i know as a sinner right?

On the other hand if Jesus wanted to find a way to end a person's time suffering in hell he could use his lawyer/counseler skills to figure out a way.

If someone proved annihilationism to me it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

It's hard to be sure just what Jesus meant. During the 1st Cent it was common (though not the only view) for Jews to think that there was punishment that eventually ended, for most, with a few people being treated more seriously. Mat 13 is not necessarily permanent. Mat 25 is, but has the general problem of being sure what "eternal punishment" is. E.g. it could be the second death, as in the Rev. My feeling is that based on usage in the OT, "eternal punishment" isn't necessarily punishment that goes on forever. Again, I point to Is 66:44.

Well the wailing shall continue for ever. An intersting passage in the order ot is constructed is found in Rev. 20.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

We know hell is the grave that at the time Jesus walked was divided in three parts:

1. Abraham's Bosom/Paradise (where the repentant thief went when he died) the OT righteous dead went here for Jesus had not shed His blood yet! As it says in Ephesians when He ascended He led these folks to heaven.

2. The place of torments- where the lost went awaiting final casting into the lake of fire.

3. Tartarus- when the angels who sinned in Genesis 6 went and placed in chains awaiting the lake of fire.

There are now only two portions of hell(sheol/hades/grave) active. Torment and Tartarus.

But look at the order of things cast into th elake!

Death and the grave first! This casting is called the second death! Then with death and the grave destroyed- all the lost both of angels and men are cast into the lake of fire to suffere for eternity!