Toppling Ten Fake Facts That Prop Evolution

nolidad

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So, do you believe in automatic dictation or do you believe that human writers put their knowledge about the world and personality in the text?

This is what I believe:

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Writing or speaking under the anointing of teh Holy Spirit does not make one an automaton.
 
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nolidad

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Irrelevant to the doctrine of creation and actually consistent with it as a matter of fact. All we know from Scripture is that the creation of the universe was, 'in the beginning', not reference to a chronological time. Creation week starts some time latter, perhaps seconds, perhaps billions of years later. The Big Bang theory is based on the expansion of the universe that is observed postulated backwards, it's a mathematical model nothing more. What is more, God spoke that there it was, it makes sense that the universe had a starting point.


If it is, it does not reflect on the historical narrative of Genesis 1 and I relish the opportunity to defend that biblically.


They observe decay rates over days, months and sometimes over years and project that over millions or billions of years. That's not science, that's supposition. In the short term many of the measurements are fairly reliable but irrelevant to the doctrine of creation.


Absurd.


For decades the evolutionists were telling us the DNA of bacteria evolved by mutation by natural selection. Then they discovered CRISPR-Cas9, guess what, there was a molecular mechanism that modified the immune system of bacteria and it is now the most powerful genetic editing tool in the world.

I think you have confused natural selection with intelligent design.


It does, the extent of the adaptive evolution involved is largely a matter of speculation. The fact that amphibians, whales and dolphins might be related remains an open question.



Lucy had a chimpanzee size brain as did the Taung child. There is no such thing as an ape man.


Agreed, nice to hear that from a fellow creationist for a change.

Yes, let me ask you a question. If God didn't create life in the first place, should be trust the promise of the gospel regarding eternal life?

Nice post btw, sorry I made such short work of it but I wanted to get to the points I thinks are vital.

Grace and peace,
Mark


Thanks!

I casme here recently form a secular thread. the evolutionists gave up because for every supposition the presented, I showed from real science why evolution/BB is untenable scientifically! Most still mocked, but none could refute my responses.
 
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nolidad

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Do you agree that it actually does not matter and what matters is the fruit of Spirit? Will God interrogate us regarding Genesis and evolution? If not, are these fights worth the effort?

Well I could give you the long answer as to why!

But to condense it: If we allegorize Genesis 1-11 as myths and parables- Christianized apostate society has shown they will take that inch and go a mile with it!

Within "Christendom"

60% do not believe in hell
30% do not believe in the physical resurrection
40% believe there are many paths to heaven.

On a thread discussing creation/evolution yes it is worth the effort! Jesus believed it taught it and said nothing will pass from His Word.

If one is asking how to e saved- then this kind of discussion goes to the back burner!

But doctrine matters. Doctrine simply defined is what God has said on a manner. He said He created in six days and each after its kind and then gave a genealogy to show it was about 6K years ago.

The biggest reason peopel cling to evolution is not because science has shown it the best answer (for it hasn't) but that they think it absolves them from accountability to the living God!
 
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nolidad

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Irrelevant to the doctrine of creation and actually consistent with it as a matter of fact. All we know from Scripture is that the creation of the universe was, 'in the beginning', not reference to a chronological time. Creation week starts some time latter, perhaps seconds, perhaps billions of years later. The Big Bang theory is based on the expansion of the universe that is observed postulated backwards, it's a mathematical model nothing more. What is more, God spoke that there it was, it makes sense that the universe had a starting point.


If it is, it does not reflect on the historical narrative of Genesis 1 and I relish the opportunity to defend that biblically.


They observe decay rates over days, months and sometimes over years and project that over millions or billions of years. That's not science, that's supposition. In the short term many of the measurements are fairly reliable but irrelevant to the doctrine of creation.


Absurd.


For decades the evolutionists were telling us the DNA of bacteria evolved by mutation by natural selection. Then they discovered CRISPR-Cas9, guess what, there was a molecular mechanism that modified the immune system of bacteria and it is now the most powerful genetic editing tool in the world.

I think you have confused natural selection with intelligent design.


It does, the extent of the adaptive evolution involved is largely a matter of speculation. The fact that amphibians, whales and dolphins might be related remains an open question.



Lucy had a chimpanzee size brain as did the Taung child. There is no such thing as an ape man.


Agreed, nice to hear that from a fellow creationist for a change.

Yes, let me ask you a question. If God didn't create life in the first place, should be trust the promise of the gospel regarding eternal life?

Nice post btw, sorry I made such short work of it but I wanted to get to the points I thinks are vital.

Grace and peace,
Mark


Just want to let you know I totally disagree with all the ten premises posted by ICR (which they disagree with as well)

But as to the question you posed.

It is true more and more people because the Bible has been assaulted and clear unambiguous passages have been allegorized and doctrine muddied by allegorization question Jesus as the sole means of Salvation.
 
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trophy33

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True the Bible is not God, but it is God's Word just as if He was speaking directly to us.
Numbers 23:19 KJV
[19] God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it ? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
So, you believe that the whole Bible is dictated by God, word for word, and perfectly preserved till today?
 
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trophy33

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Well every issue is important.
Why?

If man evolved form ape like creatures that means that homo suffered death long before the fall and that nullifies the biggest reason for Jesus to come and die! The Bible is an integrated whole!
Jesus came to die to save us from eternal death, not from a physical one. The eternal death came through Adam, not the physical one.
 
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mark kennedy

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Why?


Jesus came to die to save us from eternal death, not from a physical one.
We are all condemned to die a physical death, those who alive at the return of Christ are an exception. Jesus promises eternal life, my question has long been, if we can't believe God created life in the first place what does that say about the promise of eternal life?
 
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trophy33

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We are all condemned to die a physical death, those who alive at the return of Christ are an exception. Jesus promises eternal life, my question has long been, if we can't believe God created life in the first place what does that say about the promise of eternal life?
Every Christian believes that God is creator of everything what exists. Its "how He created" what is being discussed. Whether Genesis is literal or symbolic.
 
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PaulCyp1

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You have two major problems here. First, you cannot prove anything from science unless you have at least a basic understanding of science, which you obviously do not. And second, you cannot prove anything in the Bible unless you understand the texts you are trying to prove, which you obviously do not.
 
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mark kennedy

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Every Christian believe that God is creator of everything that exist. Its "how He created" what is being discussed. Whether Genesis is literal or symbolic.
Ok, both the first five books of the Old Testament and the first five books of the New Testament are clearly written as history. Figurative interpretation requires figurative language and Genesis 1 has none.
 
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How can I show you hypotheses that are unproved as proven????

Well as for evolutionary hypotheses, other than speciation, none have been conclusively proven, nearly all evolutionary hypotheses have not even been observed or tested and found even remotely possible.

As for Creation- Gods Word said He created everything after its kind! Kind is genus and possibly even family(dog kind, cat kind etc) we cannot be sure. But we have never seen a cat become something other than a cat or a reptile ever become something other than a reptile!

I was responding to this "Evolution is an untested unobserved unprovable hypotheses that fails the scientific method of establishing facts." So I asked if you could give me a list of the scientific hypotheses that have been conclusively proven. Any scientific hypotheses. Don't limit yourself to evolutionary hypotheses. So again can you give me a list of the tested, observed, provable hypotheses that passes the scientific method of establishing facts?
 
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The Barbarian

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This article will review 10 false statements used to promote the belief that purely natural processes could accomplish what only a supernatural Creator can.

Since most of these were proposed by theists who thought God did it, you've already messed up.

1. The Universe Began with a Big Bang

And that's wrong. It was first proposed by a scientist who happened to be a Catholic priest, and was vigorously attacked by an atheist, who found the idea of a created universe offensive.

Many people talk about the Big Bang as if it’s a scientific fact, but it’s really a speculation. It has never been proven.

In fact, two scientists from Bell Labs accidentally verified it, when they found the predicted microwave background radiation from the initial expansion.

Even secular textbooks recognize Big Bang difficulties such as the horizon problem and the mature galaxy problem. If the Big Bang were true, the universe should not have such a stunning uniformity or “sameness” throughout its structure and temperature.

You've been misled. Badly:

First the lumps. Why is matter and energy distributed so unevenly when we observe the universe on scales ranging from the human-sized to the supergalactic? Why, in other words, should there exist huge concentrations of stuff — massive clusters of galaxies like the Virgo cluster, cosmic equivalents of New York City, teeming with energy and activity — separated by vast expanses of emptiness, nearly devoid of any matter at all?
Elegant Wiggles: Why the Universe Is Lumpy | HuffPost


The Big Bang would also mean that the galaxies farthest from Earth should look like baby galaxies. Instead, they look the same age as those near us.


2. The Earth Is 4.6 Billion Years Old
Secular scientists3 insist Earth formed through natural processes 4.6 billion years ago, but much evidence confirms our planet’s youth. At its current decay rate, for example, Earth’s magnetic field would have run down before 100,000 years.

Fortunately, we can determine the strength of the Earth's magnetic field well into the past; it leaves traces in minerals that were melted and solidified at the time. Turns out, it fluctuates a lot over time; sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker. The guys who fed you that one were just profoundly ignorant of the way it works.

Earth’s fossils, coal, and diamonds are supposedly millions of years old, yet they all contain short-lived radiocarbon atoms that can last no more than 100,000 years.

This only happens were there is both nitrogen and radioactive materials in the area. Nitrogen, when struck by ionizing radiation, will form carbon-14. So not surprising. Diamonds, for example, often have nitrogen atoms in their crystal lattices, and kimberlite, in which diamonds form, contains uranium and thorium isotopes.

Questions to consider: If Earth is billions of years old, why does it still have a magnetic field?

Because the iron/nickel core of the Earth is still liquid, and therefore moves by convection, which produces a magnetic field. Mars once had a magnetic field, but when the core solidified, it stopped.

Why is short-lived radiocarbon found in Earth’s natural resources that are supposedly millions of years old?

Because carbon-14 is produced when nitrogen is impacted by ionizing radiation, both of which are present in the Earth.

Nobody—not even geologists—can directly measure the age of a rock. None of us watched Earth’s rock layers form. So, when researchers measure isotopes in rocks, they have to use assumptions to convert isotope ratios into time estimates. They assume a consistent decay rate, how much of which isotope was there in the first place, and whether or not this or that isotope leaked into or out of the rock before or after it hardened.

Since the date of the eruption that buried Pompeii was accurately dated by argon/argon methods, we know they work.

Isotope-based “dates” for the same rock sample don’t always agree, so scientists must decide which results to keep and which to ignore.

You've been misled about this, as well.
One of the main objections to radiometric dating (on the part of young earth creationists) is that radiometric ages do not agree with each other or that contamination renders ages meaningless. In fact, the claim is partially true. Early mass spectrometers were not as sensitive as machines today and the methods for separating, cleaning and analysis were less sophisticated. Although ye-creationists like Snelling talk about contamination of isotopic systems as if it were a foreign concept to modern geology, most geochronologists routinely check for possible contamination using a variety of methods. In addition, geologists recognized that rocks could be contaminated with excess daughter or parent or loss of parent/daughter that would also affect the age as determined by radiometric methods. Creationists have seized upon these discoveries and held them forth as evidence that radiometric dating is inaccurate. But is this the case? Simply put each radiometric system is based on the assumption that each system has a different half-life (derived from the decay 'constant' which is simply the length of time it takes for 1/2 of the radioactive parent to decay to a stable daughter). In addition to variable half-lives, each mineral will 'close' at different temperatures (closure, is simply defined as the point where no daughter/parent is lost or gained*). There are a number of different methods that geologists use to check for loss/gain and these are incorporated into most analyses (isochron methods, stepwise degassing etc). If radiometric decay rates are not constant and rocks behave as open systems, it would be the exception, rather than the rule, for ages to agree with one another. Here are a few examples in the recent literature of radiometric age determinations on the same rocks (using different isotopic methodsa).
One of the main objections to radiometric dating

Read the data and learn.

ICR’s Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth (RATE) multi-year study found strong evidence that secular geologists use bad science to date rocks.

One of their common practices, is to take a very recent sample of hardened lava, which contains xenochrysts (material that remained unmelted in the eruption). This then would give an ancient date for the eruption, and creationist would do a victory lap.

Questions to consider: How can we trust radioisotope dating for rocks that formed in the past if it often gives incorrect dates for rocks of known age?

Because it doesn't often give incorrect dates. (assuming one isn't ignorant of how to sample, or trying to deliberately get a bad result)

When isotope-based dates don’t agree, how do scientists decide which one is right?

That requires finding the source of the error. Such as Gentry's inclusion of xenochrysts in dacite taken from Mt. St. Helens. In his case, it appears to have been intentional, not an error.

4. Scientists Are Close to Creating Life from Non-Life
Scientists have spent at least a century trying to create biological life from chemicals, yet they haven’t made even one DNA molecule.

For The First Time, Scientists Have Made Synthetic DNA

22 FEB 2019

Earth might have a dizzying array of life forms, but our biology ultimately remains a solitary data point - we simply don't have a reference for life based on DNA different from our own. Now, scientists have taken matters into their hands to push the boundaries on what life could be like.



5. You Even Share Ancestry with Earthworms

In fact, you share most of your genes with earthworms. And if you look at all the phyla, you find that you get the same family tree with genetics that Linnaeus got with phenotypes over a hundred years ago. And we know it works, because we can check it with organisms of known descent.

Evolutionists cannot agree on any of the proposed transitional creatures found among the fossils.

No, that's false. Even your fellow YE creationist, Kurt Wise, admits:
Of Darwinism’s four stratomorphic intermediate expectations, that of the commonness of inter-specific stratomorphic intermediates has been the most disappointing for classical Darwinists. The current lack of any certain inter-specific stratomorphic intermediates has, of course, led to the development and increased acceptance of punctuated equilibrium theory. Evidences for Darwin’s second expectation - of stratomorphic intermediate species - include such species as Baragwanathia27 (between rhyniophytes and lycopods), Pikaia28 (between echinoderms and chordates), Purgatorius29 (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul30 (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids). Darwin’s third expectation - of higher-taxon stratomorphic intermediates - has been confirmed by such examples as the mammal-like reptile groups31 between the reptiles and the mammals, and the phenacdontids32 between the horses and their presumed ancestors. Darwin’s fourth expectation - of stratomorphic series - has been confirmed by such examples as the early bird series,33 the tetrapod series,34,35 the whale series,36 the various mammal series of the Cenozoic37 (for example, the horse series, the camel series, the elephant series, the pig series, the titanothere series, etc.), the Cantius and Plesiadapus primate series,38 and the hominid series.39 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact. It certainly CANNOT said that traditional creation theory expected (predicted) any of these fossil finds.
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j09_2/j09_2_216-222.pdf

Questions to consider: Is there a single scientific paper that documents the transformation of one kind of organism into a completely different kind?

If so, evolutionary theory would be in big trouble. Each step, as Wise notes, appears as a slightly different kind; when they are all lined up, we see completely different kinds at the beginnings and ends of the series.

What do the many different ancestries scientists compose for the same set of creatures suggest about the process of crafting them?

The statement says much about the lack of integrity on the person who wrote that misrepresentation. In fact, there are often disagreements about details, but as genetic data accumulates, we see general agreement on major forms.

6. Changes to Bacteria and Virus DNA Show Evolution in Action
Questions to consider: If no new functions evolve after 50,000 bacterial generations, is there any reason to think they would ever evolve?

In fact, Barry Hall discovered that a culture of E. coli evolved an new, irreducibly complex enzyme system in a few months. A population of Italian lizards evolved a new digestive organ as well as other new features in a matter of years. Would you like to learn about those?

7. Natural Selection Gives Creatures an Appearance of Design
In truth, scientists have never seen natural selection generate a new feature, much less an organ system, in a plant or animal.

See no. 6, above. You've been misled, once again.

Questions to consider: How does an environment re-engineer creature features?

It doesn't. Natural selection causes it to evolve. Engineers now copy evolutionary processes, when they can't design a system as they'd like. Would you like to learn about those?

What about air could plan and engineer the aerodynamic qualities of a feather?

See above.

Why doesn’t air give all creatures feathers?

It doesn't.

Since nobody has actually seen natural selection craft new designs,

See no. 6. It causes the evolution of new features. Would you like to learn about some more of them?

8. Whale Fossils Show Evolution

Museums have labeled Pakicetus as a whale ancestor since the 1980s, when only its skull was known. In spite of the 2001 discovery of a full-body Pakicetus fossil with legs rather than fins, museums continue to display this fake fact.

They lied to you about that. The reason Pakicetus was considered a whale ancestor was it had the skull of a whale. It was somewhat surprising that a whale would have legs, but since then, more fossil species of whales with legs have been found, showing the evolution of these animals. Would you like to see some examples that show how various features evolved over time?

Evolutionists teach that this walking mammal somehow evolved into a whale. Speaking of whales, some speculated that their “hip bones” were useless leftovers from when whale ancestors had legs. But further study showed these pelvic bones are vital for underwater mating.

You were misled again. Basilosaurus, for example had hip bones and vestigial leg bones. And since we occasionally see vestigial legs on dolphins or whales, (in neither case are they needed for mating) your belief is demonstrably wrong.

Questions to consider: How many body features would have had to change for Pakicetus to turn into a whale?

It is a whale. But to become modern whale,the nostrils would have to move backwards to the top of the head.
25929.gif


Legs would first have to become flipper-like, and then give way to flukes for swimming. Would you like some more evidence for the changes?

How could a transitional creature with some dog-like parts and some whale-like parts survive in the wild?

Pakicetus, Ambulocetus, etc. all were like that, and did very well.

Since scientists have disproved the idea of whale hip bones,

Both whales and dolphins have pelvic (hip) bones, evolutionary remnants from when their ancestors walked on land more than 40 million years ago. Common wisdom has long held that those bones are simply vestigial, slowly withering away like tailbones on humans.

New research from USC and the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County (NHM) flies directly in the face of that assumption, finding that not only do those pelvic bones serve a purpose, but their size and possibly shape are influenced by the forces of sexual selection.
Whale reproduction: It’s all in the hips

They are "vestigial", because they no longer have their original function. But as Darwin pointed out, vestigial organs are often evolved to a new purpose. And that's what happened in whales.


why should we believe whales ever had legs at all?

Occasionally, vestigial legs still appear on whales or dolphins.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1310010/pdf/janatphys00156-0001.pdf

9. Fossil Ape-Men Prove Human Evolution
Museum displays showed Lucy with human feet against fossil evidence. In 2018, a baby Lucy fossil was discovered, and it had a curved, ape-like big toe. Lucy is an extinct form of ape—with no human parts.

You were lied to on this one. In fact, apes have very curved digits. We have only slightly curved digits. Australpithecines like Lucy had digits transitional between apes and humans.

fourth-proximal-pedal-phalanges.png

They are transitional in many other ways as well. Would you like me to show you some more of them?

Questions to consider: Can you name a particular fossil that evolutionary experts all agree was an ape transitioning into a human?

Australopithecines. Interestingly enough, it's much harder to get creationists to all agree on which of these fossils are humans and which are apes. Would you like to take the challenge yourself?

10. Humans and Chimps Share 98% Genetic Identity
Depending on how you do the analysis, our genes line up between 98 and 92%. If you use non-coding DNA (which creationsits call "junk DNA"), it's more like 85%. But what ever way you do it, humans and chimpanzees are genetically more alike than either is related to any other ape.
 
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trophy33

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Figurative interpretation requires figurative language and Genesis 1 has none.
Genesis 1 and 2 have plenty of figurative language.

You are just forcing yourself to read it literally (like "days", "dust", "breath of life", "rib" etc.).
 
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mark kennedy

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Genesis 1 and 2 have plenty of figurative language.

You are just forcing yourself to read it literally (like "days", "dust", "breath of life", "rib" etc.).
No, figurative language contains a like or as or the equivalent the majority of the time. What your doing is called allegorizing the text. The entire book of Genesis, in fact the Pentetauch are written as historical narrative. Occasionally there is figurative language but there just happens to be none of that in Genesis 1.
 
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I know about comparative language and Genesis 1 doesn't have any.
You are still trying to limit Genesis to some simple and clear rules. But Genesis is obviously an amalgamation of various styles.

If you do not see repetitions, 7 days, talking snake, dust, rib, breath of life, firmanent, trees etc. as signs of not too scientific/literal text, then its your decision, but hardly a probable one.
 
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mark kennedy

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You are still trying to limit Genesis to some simple and clear rules. But Genesis is obviously an amalgamation of various styles.

If you do not see repetitions, 7 days, talking snake, dust, rib, breath of life, firmanent, trees etc. as signs of not too scientific/literal text, then its your decision, but hardly a probable one.
With science you have rules for interpreting natural phenomenon, when interpreting something translated from another language there are rules. You mention the talking snake but that's not what he is called, he is called the 'serpent', effectively using it as a proper name. We know this from Revelations:

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. (Rev. 20:2)
Now one could easily surmise the Devil being called the 'Serpent' is figurative on some level. But Adam's name means 'red', the idea being he was made from some reddish brown soil or clay. Indeed there are occasions where figurative language is used, the ancient Hebrews were quite fond of it. You just have none of that in Genesis 1. The firmament by the way, just means the expanse above, with another one below, the heavens themselves and the atmosphere that is made during creation. Genesis 1 creates no interpretive challenges, you either believe it or you don't but the figurative interpretation has no basis in the text since there is no comparative language.
 
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I will try to say this as politely as i can.

If you want to have credibity when you discuss Evolution then you must do 2 things:

1. Pass a course in Calculus at the level of 1st year university

2. Pass a course in Biology at the level of 1st year University.

Without this background, you will not have an understanding of what evolutionary science is saying.

So there is your starting point.

BEST wishes and Blessings
 
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