3 People Groups Going into the Lake of Fire

[aiki]

OK, I found it.

I see absolutely no implication at all "coward" means lack of faith. Seriously, how do the terms "timid/fearful" do as you claim, and imply "cowardly" means "faithless"?

Please read what I wrote more carefully. Let me quote myself:

"...the word you render "cowardly" (deilos) is actually a term broader in its meaning, including "fearful" or "timid" and, by implication, "faithless."

As you can see here, I did not write, "cowardly means lack of faith." I wrote instead that the Greek term "deilos" has a broader meaning than that which the OP had allowed.

Some world-wide will take it out of ignorance.

How, then, can they be held guilty of the evil of taking it? Really, from all that I read in Scripture of the Mark, its meaning will not be something people will mistake. And this is why they are condemned for taking it. But, again, Scripture never speaks of genuine believers taking the Mark.

Then, there's the normal case where families are starving to death because they cannot buy nor sell ... and they choose life over death ...
and will be hoping for the best!

And here is more of your fiction. You are imagining true believers compromising and taking the Mark and then making assertions based upon your imaginings. Your imaginings, though, don't constitute solid ground for your assertion.

The antichrist is alive and well on planet earth,
and will soon be revealing himself.

The spirit of anti-christ has existed in the world at least since the founding of the Church. (1 John 4:3) When he may come is of little concern to me. God's always in control no matter what the devil may do.

FYI, the Lord God has called many of His people to WARN the rest of His people about such things as NT verses which are His warnings!

There is a fine line between fear-mongering and warning. You appear to stand in the former rather than the latter position.

These "called" people are His prophets and watchmen.
If that's not okay with you, why don't you complain to Him about it.

What have you done to establish yourself in either role? Are you a prophet? How has God made it clear that you are? Have you called down heavenly fire upon pagan priests and their demonic offerings? Have you raised anyone from the dead? Have you confronted kings about their secret sin? As far as I'm concerned, present-day "prophets" are all charlatans, false prophets leading astray the foolish and ignorant within the Church. I don't have to complain to God about them but, rather, expose and resist them.

 

[Ronald]

It never ceases to amaze me how those who don't want to see cannot see.

Here it is again, and please pay close attention to the terminology, it's there for a reason.

"They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

The scripture said they "believed" and before you actually try to make something else out of that term, the following verse defines the term "believe" and drives the point home:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

So there is no doubt what "believe" there means, and that they were saved for awhile. But if that's not enough, they "fell away", what do you think they fell away from?

And I realize there are preachers out there that have gained the trust of many by teaching easy way salvation/what people want to hear, and they will look you right in the eye and tell you those in that verse were "Never saved to begin with" but it's clearly not the truth.

If you disagree, can you please tell me what the term "believe" there means? Also, what did they "fall away" from?

It never ceases to amaze me that people insist they understand when they don't. Did you notice that right in that verse it says " these have NO ROOT"? What does that mean to you. Can a tree grow with no roots? It may look normal, standing there for awhile, even get rained on and suck some water, but it won't really survive long without roots. Belief is a a word that can mean different things to people. It varies in substance. Belief can be weak or based on little knowledge - yet one can say, "Yah sure I believe in Jesus ... He was a good man, spoke wonderful words and He was a loving person ... I would like to be like Him ... but the Bible was written by man, has been changed and so what do we know for sure? I doubt He was capable of dying for everyone's sin or that He rose from the dead, but I believe what He said was good for us to follow ... so I go to Church and ... It just makes feel good about myself..."
Does this person have any roots?
WOULD you say he believes FULLY?

You must believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures. And your faith in Him will be tested as plants with no or shallow riits are.
Belief goes so far on our own strength, but IF you have the Holy Spirit, it goes all the way.

 

[BCsenior]

devin:
And who is not habitually sinning? ...
I kinda think everyone is habitually sinning
under the law.

Congratulations! Seriously!
You're the first to admit it.

Absolutely ... the NT teaches us that
ALL habitual (unrepentant) sinners
will NOT be going to heaven!

You have been taught incorrectly,
and your pastor(s) are in DEEP trouble.

People have been to heaven and returned.
People have been to hell and returned.
Many so-called "believers" are in hell.
Many pastors/shepherds are in hell.

Do NOT trust your church.
Trust the word of God.
Find out for yourself what the Truth is!

 

[devin553344]

Congratulations!

Well there's always Grace and love that might save us. Even though we don't deserve it

 

[BCsenior]

There is a fine line between fear-mongering and warning. You appear to stand in the former rather than the latter position.

You are living under the false assurance of
the "grace-only" doctrine!

Many NT verses stand as dire warnings
against such doctrines!

Later, you can always come to your senses
and heed God's warnings, whenever and
wherever they may come upon you.

 

[BCsenior]

Well there's always Grace and love that might save us. Even though we don't deserve it.

Devin, how many times in John 14 did Jesus say, "Those who love Me will obey My commandments."?

Devin, who gets to go to heaven who does
not love Jesus?

 

[Ronald]

Do you understand what being baptized with the Holy Spirit means?

Yes, once you truly repent, (turn to God) and truly believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day, then in prayer you ask for forgiveness of your sins, He will wash them away (past, present and future sins) by the blood of Christ, you then become a new creature, born again. Your spiritual compartment that was dead before is now alive in Christ. Now your temple can accommodate God. He takes up residence in you (baptises you). You are in Christ forever.
What does that mean and Who is the Holy Spirit? He teaches, guides, counsels, leads, gives truth, years, speaks, bears witness to Christ and glorifies Him, is wise, gives gifts, makes promises, loves us, fellowships with us, sanctifies us, answers prayers, justifies us, convicts us of sin, edifies us, chastises us, seals us, is all powerful, is everywhere and knows all things and will someday resurrect our earthly bodies into eternal bodies like Jesus has.

 

[Aldebaran]

You are living under the false assurance of
the "grace-only" doctrine!

Many NT verses stand as dire warnings
against such doctrines!

Later, you can always come to your senses
and heed God's warnings, whenever and
wherever they may come upon you.

What does Romans 10:9-13 mean to you?

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul couldn't be more clear on the subject.

 

[BCsenior]

Ronald, re: your post #87 ...
you really need to study these 2 threads:
Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

 

[devin553344]

Devin, how many times in John 14 did Jesus say, "Those who love Me will obey My commandments."?

Devin, who gets to go to heaven who does
not love Jesus?

Forgive me but I must raise the bar. So I add to that, who goes to heaven that doesn't love Jesus:

Matthew 19:24: Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God

And also please read the bold text below because I think you're just pointing at certain sins that you feel are important:

Matthew 25:35-46 King James Version (KJV)
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[BCsenior]

What does Romans 10:9-13 mean to you?

You're taking one passage against multiple NT
verses, which clearly warn of losing salvation.

Not only that, but the one word "believe"
means a whole lot more than a single word
can possibly mean!

You need to find out what
true saving belief really is!

And ditto for true saving faith.

 

[Aldebaran]

You're taking one passage against multiple NT
verses, which clearly warn of losing salvation.

Not only that, but the one word "believe"
means a whole lot more than a single word
can possibly mean!

You need to find out what
true saving belief really is!

And ditto for true saving faith.

There are plenty more passages that say the same thing. They've been shown to you many times in other threads. Why are you ignoring those?

I think Paul explained what "believe" means pretty well in that passage. As I said, Paul couldn't be more clear on the subject.

 

[aiki]

You are living under the false assurance of
the "grace-only" doctrine!

No, I'm not. I don't have "false assurance"; I have the love and grace and faithfulness of God extended to me in and through Christ, not the craven fear you try to urge in others.

Many NT verses stand as dire warnings
against such doctrines!

There is not one verse in the NT about our relationship to God that urges us to fulfill the First and Great Commandment (Matthew 22:36-38) by way of a motive of fear. In fact, the apostle John says that fear and love cannot co-exist together and that mature love for God casts out fear! (1 John 4:16-19) The apostle Paul also makes it very clear that all that we say, and know, and do come to nothing spiritually if they aren't coupled to love. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) So, you go ahead and try to frighten people into obedience to God, but understand that you do so in contradiction to Paul, John and Christ himself!

Later, you can always come to your senses
and heed God's warnings, whenever and
wherever they may come upon you.

And perhaps one day you will actually understand the love that God has for you and begin to preach it to others as you ought. I'll pray to that end.

 

[BCsenior]

I have the love and grace and faithfulness of God extended to me in and through Christ, not the craven fear you try to urge in others.

Do God's warnings produce "craven fear"?
If there, is that what they'd be there for?

Perhaps I should be asking ...

Do you see any dire warnings directed
at everyone in the 4 gospels?

Do you see any dire warnings directed
at church members in the NT epistles?

 

[Dave L]

Do God's warnings produce "craven fear"?
Is that what they're for?

Perhaps I should be asking ...
Do you see any warnings directed
at church members in the NT?
In the gospels?
In the epistles?

If you heed the warnings you can have faith God saved you. If you do not heed them, he probably did not.

 

[BCsenior]

If you heed the warnings you can have faith God saved you. If you do not heed them, he probably did not.

El Davido,
You know after all of these years that
I'm only interested in those who
do NOT heed the warnings!

 

[Dave L]

El Davido,
You know after all of these years that
I'm only interested in those who
do NOT heed the warnings!

Only the born again heed the warnings and overcome.

 

[BCsenior]

Only the born again heed the warnings and overcome.

Yes, el Davido, only the born again
heed the warnings and overcome,
butski ... IMO ...
NOT all born again heed the warnings
and overcome!

Oh wait, I forgot ...
God overrides/trashes our free-will
and makes us heed the warnings
and makes us be overcomers!

Sorry, I forgot.
Guess it's 'cause I don't FEEL like a robot.
Iz I one, Davido?
Maybe when I grow up ... and mature a bit.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, el Davido, only the born again
heed the warnings and overcome,
butski ... IMO ...
NOT all born again heed the warnings
and overcome!

John says they do.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)

 

[BCsenior]

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)

I've already explained that Johnny is talking ONLY about overcoming "the world".

You also need to overcome sin, the devil, etc.