The Inspiration of Scripture

What the Bible says, God says.


  • Total voters
    106

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟677,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
No, the Lord had already formed the beasts of the field (Gen 2:19), it starts the chapter off with creation complete in it's vast array. The emphasis is that God had created life, seen again in the Psalms, Job, Isaiah and elsewhere. Gid is simply being praised for creation.

Strange, 2:5 says that no plant was yet in the earth. In verse 7 he makes the man and then he makes the plants and down in verse 19, he forms out of the ground every beast of the field and every bird of the air (very clearly after he's made the man). Doesn't sound at all like creation is complete at all when verse 5 begins the second creation account. What were all those earlier animals that he made in chapter 1 and why is every animal not really every animal?
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟677,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Really.... in response to actual scripture about God's word..
Do you realize that the Word of God existed before creation?
"In the beginning... was the Word"... remember that verse.

Also, I was not "God breathed" Adam was formed by God's hands and the breath of life was breathed into him.. Now, every human is still breathing from that breath.. right from Eve... But we were not spoke into existence.. Adam was formed and given a life and a soul with God's own breath.

I am not "God breathed".. I am human and I can repeat what God says.. but what I say is not profitable for much.

In the beginning was the Word is talking about a *person* (and guess who that was?). Not the bible. The bible was compiled a few centuries after the resurrection. Christ was never compiled or even created. He just is and was and always will be. He is God.
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟677,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
I literally just asked the same question lol. These are those of statements that confuse me. If this individual can explain to me how to look at things from the creators position that is absolutely amazing. This right here is where the non believers stay non believers. We think we know too much

Yep, I agree. I think that's why I keep pushing back on some of these ridiculous claims because it's the type of thing that sends unbelievers running for the hills. Back in Paul's day, we had people insisting that new converts to Christ needed to be circumcised. In our day, we have people insisting that new converts would need to be lobotomized of all reason. (And it was God who gave us our brains in the first place and they were a part of what he proclaimed to be "good".)
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Wrong.

Tradition is the English word used to translate the Greek " paradosis"
Which means the entirety of the faith handed down.

Because that is how faith was passed the New Testament: which is why Paul says " stay true to tradition we taught you"

It was a long time before there was a new testament , which was chosen because it aligned with tradition, and another millenium and a half before average joe could own one or read it.

Read iraneus , who describes the importance of it and succession bishop authority to the first church.

So not " catholic traditions" which is your misunderstanding but " paradosis" the entire church faith handed down. Jesus said " teach this" , so paradosis is what they taught.

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant"

I am not Protestant. I am a non-denominational Sola Scriptura Trinitarian Christian. I am not Protestant because they believe in Sola Fide (Faith Alone, i.e. Belief Alone - in regards to salvation), when the Bible teaches that faith is actually more than a belief alone, but faith is shown to be true or genuine by "works of faith" (James 2:18). James says we are justified by works (James 2:24); And Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that we need to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). So while we are saved initially and ultimately by God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5), His grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). It's not popular, but then again truth is never popular. While some Protestants attempt to agree that faith needs to have works, they don't believe certain grievous sins can separate a believer from God (if the believer generally lives a holy life). For they believe one is saved by having a belief alone on Jesus, and that works do not play a part in the salvation process, but they oddly believe they will have works if their faith is genuine. In other words, Protestantism sounds contradictory to me.

However, I am far from Catholic or Orthodox: I do not believe in following anything that is not in the Bible or anything that appears to conflict with the Bible.

Anyways, as for the word "traditions": Well, we can make all kinds of assumptions on what that word means until the cows come home, but the real way to determine what the word means is by looking at the context. The context or the surrounding verses or chapters do not in any ways suggest what you are saying here. In fact, nowhere in the New Testament does it teach that there was some additional passed down traditions that was to be kept separate from Scripture. It merely just happened that they taught by word of mouth as pastors do today, and they also written things down so as to preserve the teachings that the Lord gave to them. You cannot pass down information via by oral means. That never works. Even the Catholic church does not do that currently. They have a book that is their traditions. But again, there was no reference to some booked or scroll that was labeled as "traditions" that was something additional to Scripture. It would not even make sense to do that. Any teaching in written form in the NT simply would have been Scripture. Peter even referred to Paul's writings as Scripture. So anything written that came from the apostles would be Scripture. There is no such thing as a passed down oral tradition or some book called "traditions."

Jesus never quoted oral traditions, but He always quoted Scripture as His authority.

We have to also understand that they did not have Ipads, or paper notepads or an easy means to always write down things so easily. So they were forced to in some cases have the people refer to what they taught orally until they were able to write it down later (so that the information on their teaching would not be lost or corrupted).

For what would be the motivation to keeping an oral tradition that could be corrupted? It makes no sense. Have you ever heard of the game called "Telephone"? I played it once in elementary school when I was a kid back in the 80's.

Chinese whispers (Commonwealth English) or telephone (American English) [1] is an internationally popular children's game [2] in which players form a line, and the first player comes up with a message and whispers it to the ear of the second person in the line. The second player repeats the message to the third player, and so on. When the last player is reached, they announce the message they heard to the entire group. The first person then compares the original message with the final version. Although the objective is to pass around the message without it becoming garbled along the way, part of the enjoyment is that, regardless, this usually ends up happening. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly from that of the first player, usually with amusing or humorous effect. Reasons for changes include anxiousness or impatience, erroneous corrections, the difficult-to-understand mechanism of whispering, and that some players may deliberately alter what is being said to guarantee a changed message by the end of the line.

Source:
Chinese whispers - Wikipedia

The challenge of the game was to keep to the original message, but it turned out that the message changed and had errors in it when it had passed down from one person to the next by oral means. In other words, the idea that there would be a faithful means of passing down something orally is not reliable. It just wouldn't work. For there are already problems with people misinterpreting what God's Word says in written form. It would be even worse if one tries to do that by oral means.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GingerBeer

Cool and refreshing with a kick!
Mar 26, 2017
3,511
1,348
Australia
✟119,825.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yep, and the fact that the bible is the Word of God... and is what God says..

Tell me one thing that the bible says that is NOT what God said or wanted said or can be trusted to be solid truth?
Paul's disavowal of the thing he was saying as his own saying and not from God; is that what you wanted?
1 Corinthians 7:12-16 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Actually that is the witness of the early church fathers as they quoted Galatians and were nowhere near Galatia.
Name one... somebody from 150? 175? There are no church father quotes of Galatians before 100AD!
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,563
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Luke is telling the story in Acts 9. Paul is giving his eyewitness account in Acts 22.

Whose voice was heard in Acts 9? Was it Paul's or that of Jesus? We know in Acts 22, Paul identifies the Voice not heard as the Lord's. Therefore, we know for certain the voice heard in Acts 9 was not the Voice of Christ but Paul responding to Christ.
Doesn't matter, both were inspired by God to tell the story. Why is it different? Didn't God inspire them both?
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,577
45,468
67
✟2,933,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Here's a recent, well-done documentary called, The God Who Speaks, that's free to watch right now if you are an Amazon Prime member. It speaks to many of the issues/questions that have been raised on this thread. I've included the trailer below as well.

Enjoy!

Amazon.com: Watch The God Who Speaks | Prime Video


--David
p.s. - this documentary has an excellent cast too: The God Who Speaks | Contributors


quote-when-the-scripture-speaks-god-speaks-martin-luther-58-17-69.jpg
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I wouldn’t I walk around saying I don’t know anything even though I know there is very few things that I am 100% certain of. I have my beliefs of things that I am not 100% certain of but I make sure I don’t walk around acting as if I’m the one who has it all figured out, especially where things that have to do with God are concerned. I am not in any position to clear up the areas that aren’t so clear when it comes to the Lord and what he meant or didn’t mean. The people who are acting like they are 100% certain that’s cool. I’m sure I can learn from them the same as I can learn from others who thin similar to me. I just think it’s pretty dope when people don’t run away from standing tall in the things that they believe. If a person puts a great deal of trust in human authors than that’s cool too. But don’t deny the fact that they are actually putting a lot of faith in humans as well as God. We can ignore the human element of people.

There are things that are more of a mystery to me in the faith. For example: How does time operate in hell? Do they go through long periods of sleep there? Some just naturally assume that the wicked suffer down in hell consciously for thousands of years since even the global flood. But God's goodness and fair justice has helped me to consider other possibilities. Again, this would fall into the grey area of the unknown part of the Bible. I am not certain on this because there is no exact specific information given on this kind of thing in the Bible. God felt it was not necessary for us to know, but for us to have faith and trust in Him that He is a fair, just, and a good God and He has it figured out.

Also, I believe a person can study God's Word for their entire life and still only scratch the surface at the depths of it's treasures that it holds in regards to it's knowledge. Keep in mind that this does not include other forms of communication (written or oral transmissions of God) that God decide not to include in the Bible.

So I would not claim to know everything with 100% certainty, because the Scriptures even say that we look through a glass darkly. However, there those core truths that are foundational to the faith (like the Trinity, the Incarnation, Salvation (Which includes Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification), Inerrancy of Scripture, the New Testament Teaching on Nonresistance, etc.) that we can most certainly know because the Bible clearly talks about them; For those who study God's Word are to show themselves approved unto God; For it is written:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
(2 Timothy 2:15).​

Also, not all believers are alone in their study of God's Word. Believers are capable of receiving the anointing (i.e. the Holy Spirit) where no man is needed to actually teach them.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).​

In other words, you can have certainty in knowing God's Word in what it does clearly teach because you have the capacity to:

(a) Study God's Word to show yourself approved unto God via 2 Timothy 2:15.
(b) Receive the anointing of the Spirit to teach you (Instead of men) (See again 1 John 2:27).​

You will be able to spot the difference, too. You will see men following a man (and even call themselves after this man - when 1 Corinthians 3 condemns that), and yet you will find that the Bible will start to be a book that is more clear for you to see (the more you read and study it). It will no longer be a book of mystery, but it will be more in focus for you because it will be taught to you by the Spirit and not in the wisdom of men. You will notice (if you care to notice) that many seek to justify sin on some level within churches today. The Bible has a lot to say on this subject without them even realizing it. You will be able to see this clearly in the Bible if you are pure of heart, and you desire to seek the anointing of the Spirit and by studying God's Word to show yourself approved unto God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I was hoping that you would answer the part about it being being possible you could be in error. Is it possible? Or if anyone disagrees with you should they just adopt your thinking since you are right

I am sure I could be in error on minor truths in the Bible that are not so clearly taught, but as for the core truths of the faith, I do not believe that to be the case (because there are basic rules of language to figure out what a text conveys). I also do not claim to know with 100% certainty those things that are not so clearly taught in the Bible, either. But the core things of the faith we can know because we can study Scripture to show ourselves approved unto God, and we can be taught by the anointing (i.e. the Holy Spirit). For God is not the author of confusion. God wants us to know the truth. Remember, Jesus spoke in parables because it was not given to those who are not followers of Jesus to know the mysteries of God's Kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So Jesus only loves us if we keep his commandments? Do we have to keep them all of the time, most of the time, some of the time or just a little bit of the time? If you can try and use scripture and not the interpretation of men(opinions). This could really help me understand because I’ve been trying to figure out what’s what without people adding their own opinion to what Jesus is saying. Thanks.

The Bible suggests that we have to keep His commandments (within the New Testament or New Covenant) all the time because Jesus said to certain believers who did good works in his name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity or lawlessness (See Matthew 7:23 cf. Matthew 7:26-27). In fact, logic dictates that if you are obeying God's commands some of the time, then you are not really obeying them. Believers have to live a faithful life to the Lord to show that they really love the Lord. If not, it is just an empty profession of faith that really does not mean anything. Can a man marry a woman and say he loves her and then beat her and treat her like dirt? Is that true love? Does such a man really love her based on his words alone or even what he may feel about her? No. Actions speak louder than words and or professed belief alone. It's no different with God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So Jesus only loves us if we keep his commandments? Do we have to keep them all of the time, most of the time, some of the time or just a little bit of the time? If you can try and use scripture and not the interpretation of men(opinions). This could really help me understand because I’ve been trying to figure out what’s what without people adding their own opinion to what Jesus is saying. Thanks.

Romans 12:1 says we are to offer our bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God (Which is our reasonable service). This to me does not sound like I can obey God some of the time. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Jesus agrees that to love God in this way is a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). Granted, we need to first seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in His death and resurrection for salvation, but after that, we need to obey the Lord's good ways (as per the New Covenant) as a part of salvation.
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Strange, 2:5 says that no plant was yet in the earth. In verse 7 he makes the man and then he makes the plants and down in verse 19, he forms out of the ground every beast of the field and every bird of the air (very clearly after he's made the man). Doesn't sound at all like creation is complete at all when verse 5 begins the second creation account. What were all those earlier animals that he made in chapter 1 and why is every animal not really every animal?
It's not the same word for plant, what Gen. 2:5 is describing is the garden. Whats more it repeats three time in Genesis 1 that God created Adam and Eve, that doesn't mean three times. It says God created Adam in Genesis 5, what is that, 5 times? What gets me avout this argument is you guys never know where it comes from. That's the old JEPD argument based on the use of the covenant name of God rather then the more generic Elohim or patriarchal El Shaddai.

You realyy misreading the text and misrepresenting the argument you managed to rehash.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It seems you need to study paradosis and Christian history, also the history of the canon.

What you say is a creative invention that bares little resemblance to actual history. But then you could not be a non denom and still be compatible with the early church that Jesus founded because of the reliance of paradosis on apostolic succession, and their authority, as any number of church father writings prove. Who is your succession bishop?

I can only suggest you study such as ignatius and iraneus, see how church teaching was actually passed. Your concept of tradition is hopelessly flawed. Also the power to bind and loose, the authority by which heresies and canons were rejected, and the authority by which the creed and true canon was selected from many other competing writings,

You also have disregard for the power of our Lord , in believing he allowed his church to go off the rails when he said his church would be one, and the gates would not prevail. So you either think him not omnipotent or a breaker of promises.so I urge you to study those whose doctrine has changed little in 2000 yerars, complete with apostolic succession, appointed bishops , only they have power to perform or delegate valid sacraments, just as it was in the first generations, e.g. see ignatius to smyrneans, disciple of john, who clearly knew what John 6 meant - he wrote it!

All those who say apostasy are obliged to choose a date. Many pick Constantine, trouble is as study shows doctrine did not change one end of his reign to the other as Contemporary writings prove. E.g. Anasthasius. The apostasy that never was is an interesting book. Read it.


But I come back to where I started: the phrase " what the bible says" is meaningless without tradition and authority to give correct interpretation, without which all you have is words. So the title of the thread is a non sequitur.

I am not Protestant. I am a non-denominational Sola Scriptura Trinitarian Christian. I am not Protestant because they believe in Sola Fide (Faith Alone, i.e. Belief Alone - in regards to salvation), when the Bible teaches that faith is actually more than a belief alone, but faith is shown to be true or genuine by "works of faith" (James 2:18). James says we are justified by works (James 2:24); And Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that we need to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). So while we are saved initially and ultimately by God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5), His grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). It's not popular, but then again truth is never popular. While some Protestants attempt to agree that faith needs to have works, they don't believe certain grievous sins can separate a believer from God (if the believer generally lives a holy life). For they believe one is saved by having a belief alone on Jesus, and that works do not play a part in the salvation process, but they oddly believe they will have works if their faith is genuine. In other words, Protestantism sounds contradictory to me.

However, I am far from Catholic or Orthodox: I do not believe in following anything that is not in the Bible or anything that appears to conflict with the Bible.

Anyways, as for the word "traditions": Well, we can make all kinds of assumptions on what that word means until the cows come home, but the real way to determine what the word means is by looking at the context. The context or the surrounding verses or chapters do not in any ways suggest what you are saying here. In fact, nowhere in the New Testament does it teach that there was some additional passed down traditions that was to be kept separate from Scripture. It merely just happened that they taught by word of mouth as pastors do today, and they also written things down so as to preserve the teachings that the Lord gave to them. You cannot pass down information via by oral means. That never works. Even the Catholic church does not do that currently. They have a book that is their traditions. But again, there was no reference to some booked or scroll that was labeled as "traditions" that was something additional to Scripture. It would not even make sense to do that. Any teaching in written form in the NT simply would have been Scripture. Peter even referred to Paul's writings as Scripture. So anything written that came from the apostles would be Scripture. There is no such thing as a passed down oral tradition or some book called "traditions."

Jesus never quoted oral traditions, but He always quoted Scripture as His authority.

We have to also understand that they did not have Ipads, or paper notepads or an easy means to always write down things so easily. So they were forced to in some cases have the people refer to what they taught orally until they were able to write it down later (so that the information on their teaching would not be lost or corrupted).

For what would be the motivation to keeping an oral tradition that could be corrupted? It makes no sense. Have you ever heard of the game called "Telephone"? I played it once in elementary school when I was a kid back in the 80's.

Chinese whispers (Commonwealth English) or telephone (American English) [1] is an internationally popular children's game [2] in which players form a line, and the first player comes up with a message and whispers it to the ear of the second person in the line. The second player repeats the message to the third player, and so on. When the last player is reached, they announce the message they heard to the entire group. The first person then compares the original message with the final version. Although the objective is to pass around the message without it becoming garbled along the way, part of the enjoyment is that, regardless, this usually ends up happening. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly from that of the first player, usually with amusing or humorous effect. Reasons for changes include anxiousness or impatience, erroneous corrections, the difficult-to-understand mechanism of whispering, and that some players may deliberately alter what is being said to guarantee a changed message by the end of the line.

Source:
Chinese whispers - Wikipedia

The challenge of the game was to keep to the original message, but it turned out that the message changed and had errors in it when it had passed down from one person to the next by oral means. In other words, the idea that there would be a faithful means of passing down something orally is not reliable. It just wouldn't work. For there are already problems with people misinterpreting what God's Word says in written form. It would be even worse if one tries to do that by oral means.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It seems you need to study paradosis and Christian history, also the history of the canon. Your idea of tradition is way off.

What you say is a creative invention that bares little resemblance to actual history. But then you could not be a non denom and still be compatible with the early church that Jesus founded because of the reliance of paradosis on apostolic succession, and respect for bishops in succession, as any number of church father writings prove. Some of these taught by the apostles.

I can only suggest you study such as ignatius and iraneus, see how church teaching was actually passed. Your concept of tradition is hopelessly flawed. Also the power to bind and loose, the authority by which heresies and canons were rejected, and the authority by which the creed and true canon was selected from many other competing writings. The new testament did not drop out of the sky. Study what those fathers believed scripture meant.

But I come back to where I started: the phrase " what the bible says" is demonstrably meaningless without tradition and authority to give correct interpretation, without which all you have is words. As evidenced by massive disagreements between denominations, or the many one man denominations aka non denoms who are popes over their own choice of meaning. Even Luther despaired of them!

So the title of the thread is a non sequitur.

Then this conversation is coming to a close end, my friend. If your worldview does not allow to entertain your opponent's idea of reading of the Bible alone to support the truth, and truth must also be determined by also looking to church tradition and or history to be included as your added authority, then you will never see where I am coming from. For me: It is illogical to believe in a church tradition or some historical document that is not on the level of the holy nature of Scripture. For what if these traditions and historical documents are corrupted in some way and they are not entirely true? Can you prove that they are divine on the level as God's Word? Surely not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The doctrine of bible alone is responsible for all the disagreements and incompatible with Christian history.
Not my worldview , just fact.

The fact that all the essential teaching is just the same now as it was in the earliest fathers, gives credence to the idea that Jesus kept his promise. " MY church will be one" " the gates of hell will not prevail"

Take a Eucharist of the real flesh, valid only if performed by bishop in succession or his appointee, is just as true now as it was in John the apostles time, which he clearly taught his disciples. Where do you stand on that? Or is it your understanding as non denoms - ships without a compass - that has drifted?


Then this conversation is over. If your worldview does not allow to entertain your opponent's idea of reading of the Bible alone to support the truth, and truth must also be determined by also looking to church tradition and or history to be included as your added authority, then you will never see where I am coming from. For me: It is illogical to believe in a church tradition or some historical document that is not on the level of the holy nature of Scripture. For what if these traditions and historical documents are corrupted in some way and they are not entirely true? Can you prove that they are divine on the level as God's Word? Surely not.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,535
7,865
...
✟1,197,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The doctrine of bible alone is responsible for all the disagreements and incompatible with Christian history.
Not my worldview , just fact.

The fact that all the essential teaching is just the same now as it was in the earliest fathers, gives credence to the idea that Jesus kept his promise. " MY church will be one" " the gates of hell will not prevail"

Take a Eucharist of the real flesh, valid only if performed by bishop in succession or his appointee, is just as true now as it was in John the apostles time, which he clearly taught his disciples. Where do you stand on that? Or is it your understanding as non denoms - ships without a compass - that has drifted?

Well, I understand the passages in regards to the Lord's supper and the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood just fine. Yet, you have not offered any counter explanation for these verses. All you stated as your proof is that you believe in the added church traditions, history, etc. and how they are superior and are fact.

Sorry, I prefer to believe the Bible alone because His Word has never let me down.

In any event, may the Lord bless you (even if we disagree).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mountainmike

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
4,614
1,592
66
Northern uk
✟561,189.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Didn't offer a counter explanation. I offered the only one compatible with the faith handed down from apostles, and scripture, that continues to this day. Which was never questioned in the first millenium and a half, and most Christians ( Catholics, orthodox) still hold it.

Clearly sacramental. Clearly needs succession bishop or appointee to be valid. Clearly profaning it is a problem. Clearly " real flesh" As Paul said " some are sick, some have died" because of profaning it.

So when you receive the sacrament

A/ who is your succession bishop?
Or
B/ is your Eucharist invalid therefore profaning it?

Simple choice A or B Which?

But in the end let us agree on one thing. We are both Christians, and that matters more than any fine point of doctrine. You must hold as true to what you believe to be true, as I must to what I believe to be true. In catholic theology we consider you are judged by what you knew of the truth! If you knew it and broke it. Let us end on that point of agreement.


Well, I understand the passages in regards to the Lord's supper and the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood just fine. Yet, you have not offered any counter explanation for these verses. All you stated as your proof is that you believe in the added church traditions, history, etc. and how they are superior and are fact.

Sorry, I prefer to believe the Bible alone because His Word has never let me down.

In any event, may the Lord bless you (even if we disagree).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0