John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

[Romans 8]

IMO, a goodly portion of what you have been discussing will be clarified here ...
For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Thanks, this is the way I started out believing before reading David Pawson's material but I think you guys are more correct. So, I would then assume that I have the Holy Spirit and just need the baptism of the Holy Spirit next.

Watchman nee also teaches this way and again m it seems more correct.

Also a BC guy here on Vancouver Island. I'd trade for San Diego though in a heartbeat

 

[GingerBeer]

Grace-only, cheap-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc. are called antinomianianism.
This is the notion that a one-time justification saves … apart from sanctification.

From “The Gospel According to Jesus”
(Expanded Edition), John MacArthur, 1994, Zondervan

Do you think John MacArthur is a safe guide for your religious beliefs?

 

[BCsenior]

Also a BC guy here on Vancouver Island. I'd trade for San Diego though in a heartbeat

Vancouver Island ain't safe, dude, in the future,
which could be any day now. Want me to list all
of the potential dangers on the west coast?
If so, it'd be better to PM each other.

 

[BCsenior]

Do you think John MacArthur is a safe guide for your religious beliefs?

Don't know about NOW, but what he wrote in 1994
totally lines up with what I've discovered in the past
few years!

 

[Romans 8]

Vancouver Island ain't safe, dude, in the future,
which could be any day now. Want me to list all
of the potential dangers on the west coast?
If so, it'd be better to PM each other.

You mean earthquakes? I'm not too concerned. And I live on a mountain anyways so I think any tsunamis would be ripples at my feet

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Hmm... "For it is by grace you have been saved, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV).

 

[Romans 8]

Hmm... "For it is by grace you have been saved, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV).

Saved by grace, however faith is shown by our works.

James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think this makes more sense, than a practise run as Pawson suggests.

My question though is how do we know if we're born again? From what I described, does this qualify? To recap, I believe, repented, and was water baptized. I have not yet received the Holy Spirit. Am I born again or do I need the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

If you have received Jesus as your Saviour from the wrath of God because of your sin, and have been baptised in water to publicly show your faith and commitment to Christ, there is no doubt that you are born again.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Saved by grace, however faith is shown by our works.

James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Just to show that salvation is a total gift and there is nothing to be done by us to deserve or pay for it in any way, the thief on the cross had no time to do any good works other than to ask Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom. Jesus promised: "Today, you shall be with me in Paradise".

I know this is a little off-topic, but I just wanted to mention it while it was in my mind: This refutes the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer for our sins, because He told the thief that He was going to Paradise and the thief will be going there as well to be with Him. Then Jesus offered up His spirit to the Father, so His spirit went up, not down! Just wanted to get that off my chest.

 

[Romans 8]

If you have received Jesus as your Saviour from the wrath of God because of your sin, and have been baptised in water to publicly show your faith and commitment to Christ, there is no doubt that you are born again.

Thank you!!

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Saved by grace, however faith is shown by our works.

James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

This is a presentation in dialogue's form . Someone might raise the objection. Do you claim to have faith? James would be ready with his rejoinder. I do, and what's more, I've works to show for it. He might challenge the objector to give evidence of his faith without works, and then he'd give proof of the existence of faith in him, namely, the works which are faith's fruit.

 

[Romans 8]

This is a presentation in dialogue's form . Someone might raise the objection. Do you claim to have faith? James would be ready with his rejoinder. I do, and what's more, I've works to show for it. He might challenge the objector to give evidence of his faith without works, and then he'd give proof of the existence of faith in him, namely, the works which are faith's fruit.

Yes, that's essentially my point. We cannot show our faith, but by our works. But God knows our hearts.

Side question: Are you a Korean English teacher, or an expat teaching English in Korea?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Yes, that's essentially my point. We cannot show our faith, but by our works. But God knows our hearts.

Side question: Are you a Korean English teacher, or an expat teaching English in Korea?

The latter.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Do you think John MacArthur is a safe guide for your religious beliefs?

When he sticks with the Bible he is very good. But when he gave his message on tongues via Youtube, I saw that he departed from what Paul said in 1 Corinthians, and gave a very negative picture of the Corinthian church, implying that its worship was more demonized than of the Holy Spirit and their use of the gift of tongues came directly from the worship of pagans around them.

Paul said no such thing, and his description of the Corinthians church is nothing like how Dr MacArthur described it. I heard enough to assure me that Dr MacArthur exaggerated the problems and demonized them to such a degree that showed me that he was speaking out of prejudice and not according to what Paul actually said in 1 Corinthians. I think Dr MacArthur left his common sense behind the door at home when he went and gave that teaching.

Dr MacArthur totally ignores this Scripture:
" I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Corinthians 1:4-9).
This is not the demonized, out of control church, participating in pagan ritual that Dr MacArthur is making out. Therefore, his teaching about the Corinthian church and its use of tongues is totally false and deceptive. Jesus warns about false teachers who spout stuff out of their own hearts instead of through the Holy Spirit.

It confirms what is written on a packet of rat poison. 99% good food for rats, but 1% poison to kill them. Most of what Dr McArthur teaches is good Bible teaching, but his 1% error about the gifts of the Spirit, the Corinthian church and the gift of tongues is pure poison and it kills the spirits of gullible people who trust his teaching stone dead!

 

[BCsenior]

If you (Romans 8) have received Jesus as your Saviour from the wrath of God because of your sin, and have been baptised in water to publicly show your faith and commitment to Christ, there is no doubt that you are born again.

Please don't laugh too much when I tell you this!
Billy Graham and I did not know that we had been
born again until 6 months after it happened.
I heard him testify this on TV. Ditto for me, 6 months.
So, we had the indwelling Holy Spirit all of that time!

 

[BCsenior]

When he (MacArthur) sticks with the Bible he is very good. But when he gave his message on tongues via Youtube, I saw that he departed from what Paul said in 1 Corinthians ...

Yes, as far as I know, he is only drastically OFF re:
the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the related
9 spiritual power gifts of 1 Corinthians 12.
I.E. IMO, he was (is?) a cessationist ... bad mistake!
But, absolutely nuttin' to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[BCsenior]

You mean earthquakes? I'm not too concerned. And I live on a mountain anyways so I think any tsunamis would be ripples at my feet

How are earthquakes a list?
Oh yes, a list of different earthquakes.

 

[Romans 8]

When he sticks with the Bible he is very good. But when he gave his message on tongues via Youtube, I saw that he departed from what Paul said in 1 Corinthians, and gave a very negative picture of the Corinthian church, implying that its worship was more demonized than of the Holy Spirit and their use of the gift of tongues came directly from the worship of pagans around them.

Paul said no such thing, and his description of the Corinthians church is nothing like how Dr MacArthur described it. I heard enough to assure me that Dr MacArthur exaggerated the problems and demonized them to such a degree that showed me that he was speaking out of prejudice and not according to what Paul actually said in 1 Corinthians. I think Dr MacArthur left his common sense behind the door at home when he went and gave that teaching.

Dr MacArthur totally ignores this Scripture:
" I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Corinthians 1:4-9).
This is not the demonized, out of control church, participating in pagan ritual that Dr MacArthur is making out. Therefore, his teaching about the Corinthian church and its use of tongues is totally false and deceptive. Jesus warns about false teachers who spout stuff out of their own hearts instead of through the Holy Spirit.

It confirms what is written on a packet of rat poison. 99% good food for rats, but 1% poison to kill them. Most of what Dr McArthur teaches is good Bible teaching, but his 1% error about the gifts of the Spirit, the Corinthian church and the gift of tongues is pure poison and it kills the spirits of gullible people who trust his teaching stone dead!

I believe Macarthur is a cessationist. He's also put out some weird comment on Jesus's blood not being important but rather that Jesus death is what saved us??

He's also a bit vain in that he spent millions building a library honoring himself at his campus, but other than that he's pretty clean. I would place him as a stereo-typical Baptist type of Pastor.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Please don't laugh too much when I tell you this!
Billy Graham and I did not know that we had been
born again until 6 months after it happened.
I heard him testify this on TV. Ditto for me, 6 months.
So, we had the indwelling Holy Spirit all of that time!

For me it was even longer, years in fact before I could even intellectually grasp the idea of there being a God. Decades perhaps before I grasped that I had the Spirit within.

 

[Romans 8]