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Is the Earth flat or round???

JacksBratt

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The flat earth is not biblical. The Bible actually says that God created the earth in six days; so a young earth IS biblical. But you don't even the believe the Bible was inspired by God, so why would that matter to you?
I agree in the literal six days of creation... Take some time and listen to this guy... very solid Christian and educated in biblical study.. also, he also always says "don't believe me.. research for yourself"... This is only 7 minutes.. worth the listen.

 
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Dan1988

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This response is common among those that have nothing to show.

Please, I am searching for proof of either model. Give me one piece and we can discuss it.

Most "Evidence" for the globe, when investigated, is equally applied to the flat earth.. or is simply flawed.



Well, put in ear plugs.. Who are you to say that I am not searching for truth?



Nice scripture.. does this mean that anyone who tries to seek the truth is lying?
They say, pictures don't lie but that doesn't apply to the FE crowd. Some say black is white and others say we don't really exist and everything is a grand illusion.

What kind of proof would convince you, apart from asking me to pay $250,000 for your trip into space on Richard Branson's mini shuttle.

5 Flat Earth Arguments DEBUNKED

As for seeking, God decides who will find it and who won't. The scriptures are very clear about this, so some seek and go to their grave never finding it.

The problem is, people don't know what they're actually looking for. So how will they know if they've found it. Can I ask what it is you're seeking.

Unless God draws you to Himself and reveals the truth to you, you will never find it.

Matt. 13:10-16

And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'
16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

The above scripture does tell us that there are some to whom God has given the gift of understanding so they can receive the truth.
While others to whom it has not been given cannot receive the truth or salvation.
So that's what I was trying to say, how can a person know what the truth is unless they have it within them in the first palce. God must first give the person the gift of the truth, then they will recognize it when they hear it.
 
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The Barbarian

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The flat earth is not biblical.

From a YE perspective, it is. An Earth with corners, and pillars holding it up, is a flat earth. So if you're a biblical literalist, a flat Earth is the only logical conclusion.
 
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Dan1988

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It’s not just his point of view. It’s what actually happened.
What actually happened was God performed a miracle. You do know God can actually do this don't you, because he holds the whole universe in the palm of His hand.

God is not bound by limits that fallen, secular scientists place on Him.
 
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Justified112

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Actually.. no. Only a small number would have actually known the truth. The majoritiy of them go to work and do their job and are no where near being aware... based on their duties, responsibilities, security level and clearance.
So part of NASA is operating under the assumption that the earth is a sphere and the part is operating under the assumption that the earth is flat? So how would NASA function?

And yes, we made it to the moon. And we put reflector devices up on the moon that can be hit with lasers and data sent back to earth as proof of our previous trip to the moon.
 
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Justified112

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From a YE perspective, it is. An Earth with corners, and pillars holding it up, is a flat earth. So if you're a biblical literalist, a flat Earth is the only logical conclusion.
I am a literalist, but I don't read the Bible at face value. Much of those statements are taken from biblical poetry that is often written from a phenomenological perspective. They are not trying to establish a cosmology. That's why you have things in the Bible like trees clapping their hands or mountains melting and stuff like that. It was not mean to be understood in a wooden, hyper-literal, face value way. They are meant to be understood within the context of the literary genre being employed. That's "literal" means. It means using the figurative imagery to understand the literal meaning and intent supplied by the author.
 
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Justified112

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We regard them as figures of speech today because of many centuries of common usage but I also believe that was their cosmology in ancient times.
No, we understand them as figures of speech because that is what they are and they are tools to understand the literal intent of the author. We employ the same figures speech today and we are not proclaiming flat earth nonsense. We use terms like sunset and sunrise, not be cause we believe the sun is rotating around the earth, but it is just a phenomenological reference that has been common all throughout human history.

Ancient people were not stupid and understood the world far better than people in the modern age give them credit. They were employing a knowledge of science, mathematics and physics that were quite advanced, even by our own standards today. And the ancient world knew the earth was a sphere centuries before Jesus came on the scene.
 
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trophy33

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The Bible is the final authority on all matters of Christian faith and practice
No, God is. Bible is just a composition of useful texts given to us temporarily together with other tools until we will meet Him.

and the Bible 100% correct on everything it says. It contains no mistakes. Every word in the Bible is true and is inspired by God.
No, many places in Bible are not even original. There are doubts about books, there are many places, even whole chapters in different readings. There are tuns of translations. So, if you believe that every word is inspired (you sound like a KJV only proponent), tell me, which Bible?

That is what Christians believe.
No, Christians believe in apostolic/nicean creeds.
The belief that every word in Bible is inspired and that there is no error sounds more like the KJV only camp than Christianity.
 
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trophy33

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"Day" means 24 hours in Gen. 1. I know that because it is accompanied by the modifiers "evening and morning" which is a 24 hour period. That doesn't mean that it means 24 hours in every single usage/context.

The Bible does not say the earth is flat. Nowhere does the Bible make such claims.

Be consistent. If you believe that day means literal day because there is "evening and morning", then you must believe that the Earth is flat, becaust it has corners, it is wide, it has pillars, it has edges etc.

Where does the Bible say that the kidney is the place of one's thinking? It doesn't. That is just really bad exegesis on your part. The reference is to the innermost parts. The word is "tekhot" in Hebrew and refers to the inward parts and is used only twice in the OT.
Job 19:27, Ps 16:7

Also look at: Ps 7:10, Jer 11:20, Jer 17:10, Jer 20:12, Rev 2:23, Ps

English translations try to hide this word from you and translate it differently. In old Czech translation, I see literally "kidneys". So you will probably have to look at Hebrew to verify it.
Again, the information you are getting is really sloppy and you are simply wrong. Honestly, you are not studying the Bible with any skill.
I think the same about you ;-) You are a product of modern American literalism, not knowing that Christians worldwide think differently or ignoring them as being "wrong".
 
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Justified112

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No, God is. Bible is just a composition of useful texts.
But God communicates through His Word. The Bible has God's authority because it comes from Him. It is not just useful texts. The information in the Bible, all of it comes from God, not man.


No, many places in Bible are not even original. There are doubts about books, there are many places, even whole chapters in different readings.
Those doubts only exist in the minds of those who set themselves to disbelieve the Bible. The Bible is perfectly preserved for us. There are minor variants, but the Bible, especially the NT enjoys over 25,000 copies that can be tested and have not been changed. They read the same at every point of comparison from the early 2nd century all the way up to the 5th century. Not ONE single change.


No, Christians believe in apostolic/nicean creeds.
The belief that every word in Bible is inspired and that there is no error sounds more like the KJV only camp than Christianity.
Nope, I am talking about the Greek. The whole Bible is inspired and the Greek contains no errors and even the translations are preserved as totally true. Anyone can pick up a Bible in their own language and know they are reading the Word of God.

But those who don't believe cannot trust that what the Bible says about Jesus and salvation is true. If the Bible is just manmade doctrines then what the Bible says about salvation might not be true. Is that what you want?
 
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trophy33

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But God communicates through His Word.
Not only. He also communicates through His creation and mainly, through His Spirit inside us.

Those doubts only exist in the minds of those who set themselves to disbelieve the Bible. The Bible is perfectly preserved for us. There are minor variants, but the Bible, especially the NT enjoys over 25,000 copies that can be tested and have not been changed. They read the same at every point of comparison from the early 2nd century all the way up to the 5th century. Not ONE single change.



Nope, I am talking about the Greek. The whole Bible is inspired and the Greek contains no errors and even the translations are preserved as totally true. Anyone can pick up a Bible in their own language and know they are reading the Word of God.

But those who don't believe cannot trust that what the Bible says about Jesus and salvation is true. If the Bible is just manmade doctrines then what the Bible says about salvation might not be true. Is that what you want?

1. You are building your world-view on the Old testament, so which Greek are we talking about, Septuagint?

2. Which Greek text of the New Testament has every word right? You are giving wrong information about the textual comparison, not sure if you are doing it willingly or why...
 
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Justified112

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Be consistent. If you believe that day means literal day because there is "evening and morning", then you must believe that the Earth is flat, becaust it has corners, it is wide, it has pillars etc.
I am totally consistent. I don't have to read every part of the Bible the same way and I should not because the Bible is a collection of different literary genres. You don't read poetry like prophecy. You don't read a proverb like a parable, and so on. And figures of speech abound and you have to have the skill to know when a figure of speech is being employed and when it is not.


Job 19:27, Ps 16:7

Also look at: Ps 7:10, Jer 11:20, Jer 17:10, Jer 20:12, Rev 2:23, Ps
Again, it is important to note that those verses are not trying to say the earth is flat. Ancient people knew the earth was not flat.

English translations try to hide this word from you and translate it differently. In old Czech translation, I see literally "kidneys". So you will probably have to look at Hebrew to verify it.
I read and speak Hebrew and frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and you are spreading false information.

I think the same about you ;-) You are a product of modern American literalism, not knowing that Christians worldwide think differently or ignoring them as "wrong".
No, that is not true. I am the product of simply understanding the Bible better and I am better at exegeting Scripture than you are.
 
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Justified112

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Not only. He also communicates through His creation and mainly, through His Spirit inside us.
Nope. God speaks to us through His Word. But you don't believe that the Bible comes from God, so you are relying on a false spirit that teaches you lies.


1. You are building your world-view on the Old testament, so which Greek are we talking about, Septuagint?

2. Which Greek text of the New Testament has every word right?
I am talking about the thousands of copies of the NT in Greek that were sent around the world in ancient times. We have over 5,000 copies that date from early 2nd century to the 5th century and nothing was changed in over a 400 year period. And we have 20,000 copies of early church quotations of the NT in Greek dating from 2nd century through 5th century and again, no changes, no misquotes. At every point of comparison, the texts completely agree with the exception of minor variants like smudges, mispelled words and stuff like that, which do not effect the substance of the texts.

No other ancient document enjoys such a large degree of historical witness. The Bible we have today is perfectly preserved without error.
 
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trophy33

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I am totally consistent.
You are totally inconsistent, you are cherry-picking what you like.

I don't have to read every part of the Bible the same way and I should not because the Bible is a collection of different literary genres.
This applies to Genesis 1 and 2, too.

Again, it is important to note that those verses are not trying to say the earth is flat. Ancient people knew the earth was not flat.
Its obvious that you were not looking at it at all. These verses prove that kidneys are your brain. Not that Earth is flat.

I read and speak Hebrew and frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and you are spreading false information.
And you do not even know that old Hebrews did not believe in a globe?

No, that is not true. I am the product of simply understanding the Bible better and I am better at exegeting Scripture than you are.

As was proved by somebody else than me, you are simply building on 7th day adventists prophetess.
 
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trophy33

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Nope. God speaks to us through His Word. But you don't believe that the Bible comes from God, so you are relying on a false spirit that teaches you lies.
wow, you are blaspheming again.

Not sure what you mean by "comes from God". Bible did not fall from heaven. It had human authors.

I am talking about the thousands of copies of the NT in Greek that were sent around the world in ancient times. We have over 5,000 copies that date from early 2nd century to the 5th century and nothing was changed in over a 400 year period.
Not even two of these copies agree with each other in every place. And the later the copy is, the more it differs from the first ones. So you are either willfully lying that nothing was changed or simply ignorant of the matter.
 
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Justified112

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You are totally inconsistent, you are cherry-picking what you like.
No, I am not. I am consistent exegetically.

This applies to Genesis 1 and 2, too.
Nope, because both are historical narratives, same genre.

Its obvious that you were not looking at it at all. These verses prove that kidneys are your brain.

And you do not even know that old Hebrews did not believe in a globe?
It's not about what they believed. It is about what the Bible says. The Bible's ultimate author is God, not man. God inspired the Bible and the Bible does not claim a flat earth even though you try to pervert and twist Scripture to mean something it doesn't mean.

As was proved by somebody else than me, you are simply building on 7th day adventists prophetess.
No I am building on what the Bible you don't believe in, says. I trust God's word and reject your false doctrine.
 
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Justified112

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wow, you are blaspheming again.
Nope. I am under NO obligation to believe that the Holy Spirit is telling you that the Bible is not God's Word. Only an evil spirit would spread that kind of lie.

Not sure what you mean by "comes from God". Bible did not fall from heaven. It had human authors.
No, the Bible had human writers. It has only ONE divine author. God is the author and men wrote what He inspired the to write.


Not even two of these copies agree with each other in every place. And the later the copy is, the more it differs from the first ones. So you are either willfully lying that nothing was changed or simply ignorant of the matter.
Wrong. All 25,000 Greek copies completely agree. English translations don't always agree, but the ancient Greek copies totally agree. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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trophy33

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No, I am not. I am consistent exegetically.

Nope, because both are historical narratives, same genre.




It's not about what they believed. It is about what the Bible says. The Bible's ultimate author is God, not man. God inspired the Bible and the Bible does not claim a flat earth even though you try to pervert and twist Scripture to mean something it doesn't mean.


No I am building on what the Bible you don't believe in, says. I trust God's word and reject your false doctrine.

1. Genesis 1 and 2 are not historical narratives, only the most literal theologicans (like Adventists) believe they are.

2. Inspiration is not an automatic dictation, people use their own worldview, vocabulary and knowledge to present the inspired idea. And these people believed that the Earth is flat and that kidneys are your centre of thinking.

3. You are building on what some exreme literalists said to you, its not historical faith and its not necessarily a Christian faith.
 
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trophy33

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Wrong. All 25,000 Greek copies completely agree. English translations don't always agree, but the ancient Greek copies totally agree. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Are you kidding or just making all this up?

1. There are 6 000 Greek copies, not 25 000

2. Not even two copies agree totally. Name two.
There are thousands of changes betwen them, there are collations online you can study, if you want to be honest.
 
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Justified112

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1. Genesis 1 and 2 are not historical narratives, only the most literal theologicans (like Adventists) believe they are.
Wrong. They are completely historical.

2. Inspiration is not an automatic dictation, people use their own worldvie, vocabulary and knowledge to present the inspired idea. And these people believed that the Earth is flat and that kidneys are your centre of thinking.
I didn't say that inspiration was dictation. And the Bbile doesn't say the earth was flat, nor does it say that kidneys are one's center of thinking. You are simply repeating lies fed to you by someone else who also doesn't know what they are talking about.

3. You are building on what some exreme literalists said to you, its not historical faith and its not necessarily a Christian faith.
Nope. More lies.
 
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