Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works?

[timothyu]

You can't change what Christianity became 1700 yrs ago by separation now.

 

[Selene03]

How do you reconcile the book of Romans and the Book of James?

The letter to the Romans refers to human works. Human works are doing good works for the purpose of gaining attention from others. An example is when a person volunteers to help the poor so he/she can be recognized in the media or gain some attention in return.

The letter of James is referring to works done by Christ through us. It is Jesus Christ in us doing the good works out of love for the other and without thought of gaining anything in return. It is us acting as one in Christ, acting in obedience in doind God's will as we do works of mercy, helping the poor and others less fortunate out of love with nothing to gain in return.

 

[timothyu]

Human works are doing good works for the purpose of gaining attention from others.

What of those who do good deeds to others without any idea of self serving purposes but simply caring, yet do not know God. The world is full of kind gentle people.

 

[Selene03]

What of those who do good deeds to others without any idea of self serving purposes but simply caring, yet do not know God. The world is full of kind gentle people.

God wants all people to know Him. It's the duty of Christians to spread the Gospels to everyone. And God is always there to help us. The Holy Spirit can move non-Christians in the direction of coming closer to knowing God. When non-Christians work alongside Christians in helping the poor, eventually and hopefully they will hear a word from God through the Christians. That's how some of them converted. Others converted when they see Christians helping them. Non-Christians who do good deeds without any selfish intentions is already being moved by God on the outside. Christians are the ones who have God inside. We are the light to the non-Christians so they can come to know God.

 

[timothyu]

I wasn't referring to converting. You basically said there are two kinds of people when it comes to works. I suggested there are three.

 

[Selene03]

I wasn't referring to converting. You basically said there are two kinds of people when it comes to works. I suggested there are three.

Non-Christians who do good deeds without any selfish intentions is already being moved by God on the outside. Christians are the ones who have God inside. We are the light to the non-Christians so they can come to know God.

There are only 2 types of works: human works and works done by God.

 

[timothyu]

Christians are the ones who have God inside.

Weren't we all made in His image? Dual nature?

 

[Selene03]

Weren't we all made in His image? Dual nature?

All mankind was made in the image and likeness of God, but only Christians have the Holy Spirit inside them.

 

[timothyu]

but only Christians have the Holy Spirit inside them.

The one that leads us to the ways of the Kingdom rather than the self serving traditional ways of man?

 

[Selene03]

The one that leads us to the ways of the Kingdom rather than the self serving traditional ways of man?

Aren't Christians supposed to look toward God?

 

[timothyu]

Aren't Christians supposed to look toward God?

One would assume so, but why so many partaking in the divisiveness of man rather than division between world of man and Kingdom?

 

[Selene03]

One would assume so, but why so many partaking in the divisiveness of man rather than division between world of man and Kingdom?

I don't quite understand what you mean.

 

[timothyu]

Why do so many play the us against them game rather than the role of servitude to all?

 

[Selene03]

Why do so many play the us against them game rather than the role of servitude to all?

It's human nature and pride. Many people like to be first or get special treatment. Many people want to be accepted so they behave in ways that would get approval by people they want to associate with.

If you're referring between Christians and non-Christians....it isn't wrong to say that only Christians have the Holy Spirit.

 

[timothyu]

If you're referring between Christians and non-Christians.

Even within Christianity...

 

[Selene03]

Even within Christianity...

I see all Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ despite the different denominations. Of course, there would be disagreements between us because our doctrines are not the same. The Eastern Orthodox Christians are the closest ones to us; yet, there are still a few things we don't agree on.

The Early Christians were no different. The Apostle James was a Judaizer while Paul was not. It took a council to settle the disagreement between the two groups.

 

[timothyu]

Are political disputes among Christians not a sign by way of works of the duality not only in the nature of man but within Christianity itself? (thanks for the input btw)
Does not works show the discrepancy between those of faith who follow the will of the Father, and those of faith who prefer to still follow the will and works of man? Does not the Holy Spirit only serve the Kingdom?

 

[Selene03]

Are political disputes among Christians not a sign by way of works of the duality not only in the nature of man but within Christianity itself? (thanks for the input btw)
Does not works show the discrepancy between those of faith who follow the will of the Father, and those of faith who prefer to still follow the will and works of man? Does not the Holy Spirit only serve the Kingdom?

There are Christians who think they are following God's will, but instead are following in their own will. A Christian should discern whether they are following God's will or man's will.

Christ speak about the fruits that His Church brings. Those fruits He speaks about can be seen. Good works are a part of it, and the virtues are also a part of it as well.....humility, chastity, and the forgiving and love of the enemy. Many people can love their friends and family, but who among us can love, forgive, and pray for those who persecute us and even kill us? God is love. He loved all mankind including the non-Christians, and this is the footsteps that a Christian should follow. This is how one knows if he/she follows God 's will. This is the light that a Christian has....a light manifested by and through Christ. A person who says he loves God but hates his brother does not know God.

 

[Strong in Him]

No. Nikolai Grundtvig was a Christian humanist

How can someone be a Christian humanist?

A humanist is someone who does not believe in, or accept that there is a, God. They believe that humans are the highest power, make their own destiny and are able to solve/resolve all things in the world.
My aunt's a humanist, and we had a humanist funeral for my uncle - no prayers. My aunt greatly admires the charity work that her local church does, but doesn't want to offer to join them in case anyone tries to talk to her about God. She might go to a wedding/funeral service that was in a church, but she wouldn't join in with the service.
A Christian is someone who believes in Christ, who was God become flesh, John 1:14, Philippians 2:2, Colossians 1:15-17.
Christians follow Christ and accept his teachings and claims - i.e "I and the Father are one", "no one comes to the Father except by me". God raised Jesus from the dead, thus proving that he was who he claimed to be - the Son of God, Romans 1:4.

Hard to see how the two can be reconciled.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here is a webpage explaining the story of Noah's flood, and how the Jahwist and Elohist sources differ and do not have the same details. The author of this website is a Biblical scholar:

I have never heard of these Jahwist and Elohist "sources". What are these "sources"?

I get my information from the Bible. This sounds like some commentaries.

Could you explain these "sources"?

#14. Noah is commanded to gather 7 pairs of clean animals OR only 2 of each animal? (Gen 7:2 vs Gen 6:19-20, 7:8, 7:16)#15. The flood lasts for 40 days and 40 nights OR 150 days? (Gen 7:4, 7:12, 8:6 vs Gen 7:24, 8:3)#16. The flood starts 7 days after Noah enters the ark OR on the day Noah enters the ark? (Gen 7:7, 10 vs Gen 7:11-13)#17. The flood is caused by rain OR the waters above and below the earth are unbound? (Gen 7:4, 7:12 vs Gen 7:11, 8:2)#18. Noah lets out from the ark a series of doves (three) OR a raven once? (Gen 8:8-12 vs Gen 8:7)

You could also watch this documentary. It will explain how there are actually different accounts in the Torah in a pattern that strongly suggests at least 4 different sources for the text. The material is based on the consensus of biblical scholars:

Are you saying that the Torah gives 4 different accounts of the same events?