Heaven when?

[Happy Felix]

I like to think that there can be a heaven right after our passing over. But there are also Bible quotes saying that heaven comes only at the end of times. It confuses me. Is it easy to end this confusion?

 

[timothyu]

This is what happens when Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom id eliminated from most church conversation. The Kingdom comes down to us from Heaven, both as a way of life now, but also at the resurrection. A new world opposite to the will and ways of man. No Heaven. Whether the resurrection comes minutes from now or tens of thousands of years, to the dead who know nothing it is like the blink of an eye being unaware of time in between..

 

[Mark Quayle]

I like to think that there can be a heaven right after our passing over. But there are also Bible quotes saying that heaven comes only at the end of times. It confuses me. Is it easy to end this confusion?

Yes, it is an easy answer that is hard to employ. What is hard about it isn't the theory, but seeing things from God's point of view.

The theory is simple. God doesn't see things how we do. He invented time, and isn't subject to it. So to him it is all one and the same. He spoke and it is done. See? Simple.

Truth is I don't know how he sees it, but I think there is something to that theory. All this temporal business we (and even his Son, and the plan of Redemption) had to go through took no time at all in God's economy.

Side issue: As corollary to the above, God is forever wounded for our sake.
Side issue: The consternation may be moot that we feel and try to reason away at the thought of never-ending torment of the Lost in the Lake of Fire --though never over with, the torment may not have any relation to the passage of time.

But as we go through this temporal existence, forced to submit to time in this way and that, learning Godly things such as patience, making priorities, giving up ambitions and desires for God's sake, somehow relates to learning God's point of view --and it is hard to do.

Meanwhile, the whole of creation waits in eager anticipation for the sons of God to be revealed.

 

[FatalFantasy]

I like to think that there can be a heaven right after our passing over. But there are also Bible quotes saying that heaven comes only at the end of times. It confuses me. Is it easy to end this confusion?

This universe will end at some point, everything that was will be rolled up like a scroll. Once the entire universe has fleeted from God's presence, the great and small will appear (Awaken) in the light of the great white throne.

Judgment day.

From here life & death will be given, and those who gain life will become eternal members of the community of God. Those who die will be forever erased from existance, and returned to the primary energies that they came from.

Then a new universe will be constructed, not like the old.

 

[crossnote]

I like to think that there can be a heaven right after our passing over. But there are also Bible quotes saying that heaven comes only at the end of times. It confuses me. Is it easy to end this confusion?

Both.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Peter 3:13 (KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Happy Felix]

Thank you all. Let me reflect on it and meditate on it. The promise is so rich.

 

[AHunbleServant]

This also confused me for years but I learned something powerful recently that made perfect sense.

The Bible refers to a placed called 'Sheol.' This place is separated for everyone who have died; once side for the saved and one side for the unsaved. The saved are waiting for the resurrection (what I believe to be the 'dead in Christ' in 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Also, while Jesus was on the cross He stated to the thief on the cross 'today you'll be with me in paradise.' However, I learned that this is a mistranslation with the placement of the comma and what Jesus was actually saying was 'Today, I say to you, you will be with me in paradise.' Jesus wasn't saying that when they died, they would be in heaven 'today,' as in within 24 hours. He was saying 'today' I tell you, we will be in paradise together.

I hope that clarifies your confusion.

 

[Mark Quayle]

This also confused me for years but I learned something powerful recently that made perfect sense.

The Bible refers to a placed called 'Sheol.' This place is separated for everyone who have died; once side for the saved and one side for the unsaved. The saved are waiting for the resurrection (what I believe to be the 'dead in Christ' in 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Also, while Jesus was on the cross He stated to the thief on the cross 'today you'll be with me in paradise.' However, I learned that this is a mistranslation with the placement of the comma and what Jesus was actually saying was 'Today, I say to you, you will be with me in paradise.' Jesus wasn't saying that when they died, they would be in heaven 'today,' as in within 24 hours. He was saying 'today' I tell you, we will be in paradise together.

I hope that clarifies your confusion.

I like to think that when one dies, he is "transported" immediately to heaven, via the Great White Throne. To my mind, that in no way contradicts any of the Biblical references to Sheol or anywhere else. One reference is given with respect to our time dependent point of view, the other with respect to God's time irrelevant point of view ("irrelevant", I say, for lack of a more easily rendered description).

I tend to think that when I arrive there, I will see Adam and Moses and every other regenerate believer arriving 'simultaneously'. I do not believe there is some 'waiting place' with conscious passage of time for its residents.

 

[timothyu]

I like to think that when one dies, he is "transported" immediately to heaven,

Then what would be the point of a King and His Kingdom.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Then what would be the point of a King and His Kingdom.

I assume you are referring to the 1000 year reign. From what I read, we return with him, inhabiting that city, no? (Even seems the city (the New Jerusalem) itself descends to earth to rest upon its place.)

 

[timothyu]

I assume you are referring to the 1000 year reign.

No.. that is the beta version. The eternal Kingdom under the Kingdom (rule) of the Father and his Son.

Either way the Kingdom comes down to us from Heaven. We certainly don't go there. The old meeting grandma and grandpa on some sun setting road on the way to heaven falls into the same category as there being only 2 of each animal or 3 wise men going to the stable. Manufactured children's tales.