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Is a 3rd future Temple needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?

Is a future Temple in Jerusalem needed to fulfill Bible prophecy?


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BABerean2

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Of course the reason you have to make this case is because there is STILL ONE STONE UPON ANOTHER on the Temple mount.


Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

.
 
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Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

.
LOL - Do you not understand that this puts the final nail in coffin of your beliefs. When we go to Luke21 and Matt 24 it tells us that there will not be one stone upon another at the Temple mount. To make your doctrine work you have to say the Jews don't know where their own Temple mount is. But in Luke 19 it's saying that they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another - In JERUSALEM.
Can you not understand that this completely blows apart what your are saying because there is still one stone upon another at the Temple mount and in JERUSALEM.

How is it that everything that you post........can be disproved. LOL
 
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parousia70

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That soon? Jesus said that Jerusalem would be trampled under foot until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled (Lk 21:24). Jerusalem was lain desolate three years or so after Paul died. The age of the Gentiles began three years or so after Paul died.

The Jewish age ended when the temple fell, when the law no longer held Israel captive, as Paul foretells (Rm 11:25). Christianity, then, could no longer be strictly a Jewish movement; it would become universally accepted. The times of the Gentiles came shortly after Paul's ministry.

But I'm no theologian; maybe I'm missing something.


Well,I think the desire to equate fulness of the gentiles with times of the gentiles is strong... however I have found no scriptural teaching claiming they are the same thing.

The "fullness" mentioned in Romans 11:25 is the same "fullness" as mentioned in Romans 11:12, John 1:16, Colossians 1:19,Romans 15:29, and Ephesians 1:22-23. It is the fullness of the covenantal inheritance in Christ which came to the gentiles when they were included as co-heirs in the blessing of Abraham and his seed, Jesus.

By comparing "fullness" (Greek: "pleroma" - Strong's #4138) in Romans 11:25 to its parallel usage in Romans 11:11-12, we see that the term speaks of the "riches" and "salvation" that came to the gentile world through Christ. These riches came to the gentiles via the "diminishing" of some Jews that were blinded during Christ's incarnational ministry but that would later convert in order to obtain "fullness" (Rom 11:11-12,14-23) -- i.e., the fullness of being in the blessing of Abraham and Christ (Gal 3:7-9,14-17,26-29). Paul was one of these such Jews whose initial blindness had been converted (Rom 11:1; 1 Tim 1:12-16), and there were many more at that then-present time which would be converted like him (Rom 11:5; 2 Cor 3:14-16). These first-century Jews were called a "remnant," and, according to Paul, were like the few faithful believers in Israel during the time of apostasy under Isaiah and also Elijah (Rom 11:5; cf. Rom 11:1-5; 9:27-29). The meaning of "fullness" in Romans 11:25 becomes plain from looking at Romans 11:11-12:

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? (Rom 11:11-12)

In this passage "fullness" is the opposite reality to the "fall" and "diminishing" of some Jews in their day. Furthermore, "fall" and "diminishing" clearly mean the falling away from God's covenant; "fullness" means the riches and salvation which come from being in covenant with Christ (see also: Rom 11:14-23).

The gentiles obtained this "fullness" (covenantal inheritance, salvation, and blessing) during St. Paul's ministry. In fact, Paul's entire ministry goal was to deliver this inheritance to the gentile populations (Acts 26:16-23; 20:32; 13:47; Rom 15:16,29; Eph 3:1-10; Rom 11:13; 2 Tim 1:11).

Paul accomplished this mystery of God for the gentiles to become co-heirs with the Jews in Christ's New Covenant riches by the end of his lifetime (compare Acts 13:47/26:16-23/Eph 3:1-10 to 2 Tim 4:7,17). The Church is not still waiting for the gentiles to be offered up and approved by God (Rom 15:16) that they might obtain the fullness of inheritance and riches in Christ. The fullness of the gentiles came in no later than the completion of Paul's ministry.
We are not still waiting for Gentile Fulness to occur.

The BIBLICAL "Times of the Gentile trampling" of the city was a period of EXACTLY 42 months. no more, no less. (Revelation 11:2)
 
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parousia70

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Where are you finding that fulness is the opposite of FALL.
Romans 11:12, of course.
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The opposite of FALL is RISE or GET UP.
And this is taught in what scripture?

Here we see fullness being used as full measure......complete measure....whole measure.
Eph 4 (KJV)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4 (NIV)

13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

This is what fullness means...............absoluteness, completeness, entireness, entirety, perfectness, wholeness

Which, again, is NOT a numeric value. You seem to agree, then act as if it isn't true...

So, now it's the man made religion of the Talmud. I don't know, when I look at what's going on they seem to be following the feast days of the Bible pretty closely.
Why don't you Quote Leviticus for us, and demonstrate How modern Jews do even half of what the law requires. SDA's celebrate feast days too... are they Gods Chosen Jews in your eyes then?

You might not have noticed that because the Babylonian religion has changed some of the dates of the feasts and added a few of it's own.
Further proof that the religion they follow is NOT Biblical Judaism, followed by people who are NOT Biblical Jews, they are GENTILES.

How is this so difficult? it's right in front of your eyes... you are even citing the evidence yourself!

Its as if you and I are standing side by side on a sunny day looking skyward, you turn to me, point up and say "Look, the sky is yellow and the sun is blue"...
 
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BABerean2

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LOL - Do you not understand that this puts the final nail in coffin of your beliefs. When we go to Luke21 and Matt 24 it tells us that there will not be one stone upon another at the Temple mount. To make your doctrine work you have to say the Jews don't know where their own Temple mount is. But in Luke 19 it's saying that they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another - In JERUSALEM.
Can you not understand that this completely blows apart what your are saying because there is still one stone upon another at the Temple mount and in JERUSALEM.

How is it that everything that you post........can be disproved. LOL

You are like a dog chasing its tail by laughing at the words of Christ in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44, and taking the word of Christ rejecting Orthodox Jews as to the location of the ancient Jewish temple.
You are using circular logic.

This may come as news to you, but the ancient Jewish temple was located at "Jerusalem".


During the year 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.
That would be Fort Antonia.

Ignore the historical evidence, and the recent archeological evidence, and the words of Jesus, and maybe you can make others believe you are correct.

Make sure you throw in an LOL to top it off.


Those who want the truth can find it in the link below.

The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

.
 
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Romans 11:12, of course.
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Rom 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

When we put things in context we can see that ......how much more their fulness means how much more their fulness as opposed to the Gentiles fulness.
And this is taught in what scripture?

Quoting a scripture and then making up what the words mean proves absolutely nothing.


Which, again, is NOT a numeric value. You seem to agree, then act as if it isn't true...
Complete......whole measure........The fulness will be greater than that of the Gentiles.
Why don't you Quote Leviticus for us, and demonstrate How modern Jews do even half of what the law requires. SDA's celebrate feast days too... are they Gods Chosen Jews in your eyes then?
Which means nothing. What means something is what will happen when they accept Jesus as Messiah....Which will happen as proven by the 144,000 first fruits of a coming harvest of the 12 tribes.

Further proof that the religion they follow is NOT Biblical Judaism, followed by people who are NOT Biblical Jews, they are GENTILES.
How is this so difficult? it's right in front of your eyes... you are even citing the evidence yourself!

Its as if you and I are standing side by side on a sunny day looking skyward, you turn to me, point up and say "Look, the sky is yellow and the sun is blue"...

You're just having trouble keeping up. When I was referring to the Babylonian religion I was not talking about what the Jews believe. Can you figure it out from there.
 
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parousia70

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When we put things in context we can see that ......how much more their fulness means how much more their fulness as opposed to the Gentiles fulness.
As opposed to their FALL, yes.
Fulness = Opposite of FALL
Paul EXPLICITLY contrasts the Fulness of the Gentiles against the "Fall", or "Failure" of Genetic Israel

The Fulness of the gentiles, according to Paul, stands in direct contrast with the Failure and Fall of Israel, proving pleroma is to be understood in this context as a QUALITY and not a QUANTITY.

Quoting a scripture and then making up what the words mean proves absolutely nothing.
Then I suppose you should refrain from doing it. :)

You're just having trouble keeping up. When I was referring to the Babylonian religion I was not talking about what the Jews believe. Can you figure it out from there.

I can figure out that you have no basis beyond personal bias and man-made speculation to claim modern Jews have ANY relationship to the pre desolation Hebrews.
They Don't. Not Religiously, Not Politically and not genetically.
They are a MULTI-ETHNIC conglomeration of Gentiles who follow the MAN-MADE religion of the Babylonian Talmud and have no covenant relationship with the Living God.

Nothing you have shown demonstrates otherwise.
 
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You are like a dog chasing its tail by laughing at the words of Christ in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44, and taking the word of Christ rejecting Orthodox Jews as to the location of the ancient Jewish temple.
You are using circular logic.
LOL - Just laughing at your feeble attempts to confuse the truth
This may come as news to you, but the ancient Jewish temple was located at "Jerusalem".
This may come as news to you. There is still one stone upon another. The nail is in the coffin.

During the year 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.
That would be Fort Antonia.
Wasn't Masada destroyed in 73AD. They say only 2 woman and 5 children escaped. So your statement makes no sense.

Ignore the historical evidence, and the recent archeological evidence, and the words of Jesus, and maybe you can make others believe you are correct.
The archeologist point to Herod. Is he a Roman?



Make sure you throw in an LOL to top it off.
LOL - Don't you just love it when the final nail in the coffin comes from your own post. Well I guess you don't love it, but I do.


Those who want the truth can find it in the link below.
LOL - Shot down at every turn as usual. Do you really believe that the Jews don't know where their temple mount is. Do you think the Muslims were confused when they built there. Do you think John was confused when he was told to measure. I suspect that we will see the third Temple being started in the next year or two, but don't worry, it means nothing to you. It only means God is doing exactly what He said He would do.
 
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As opposed to their FALL, yes.
Fulness = Opposite of FALL
Tell you what, go survey 100,000 people and ask them all what the opposite of fulness is and you can be sure not a singe one will say fall.
Then I suppose you should refrain from doing it. :)
No need, at this point.
I can figure out that you have no basis beyond personal bias and man-made speculation to claim modern Jews have ANY relationship to the pre desolation Hebrews.
They Don't. Not Religiously, Not Politically and not genetically.
They are a MULTI-ETHNIC conglomeration of Gentiles who follow the MAN-MADE religion of the Babylonian Talmud and have no covenant relationship with the Living God.

Nothing you have shown demonstrates otherwise.
God's promises to Israel.........TOTALLY prove you wrong. And no, totally does not mean maybe.
 
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parousia70

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Tell you what, go survey 100,000 people and ask them all what the opposite of fulness is and you can be sure not a singe one will say fall.
Go ask 100,000 atheists if Jesus is God... they will tell you no, The apostle Paul will tell you yes.

I take the apostle's word over 100,000 random strangers any day.

Why don't you?

God's promises to Israel.........TOTALLY prove you wrong. And no, totally does not mean maybe.

God's Israel of the promises IS Jesus, His JEWISH FOLLOWERS with Gentiles grafted into that one nation.

God's Israel of the promises IS NOT Modern day, multi-ethnic Christ rejectors of any stripe, no matter how much you whish they are.
 
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Go ask 100,000 atheists if Jesus is God... they will tell you no, The apostle Paul will tell you yes.

I take the apostle's word over 100,000 random strangers any day.

Why don't you?
Ok then take 100,000 atheists and another 100,000 Christians and ask them the opposite of fulness and not a single on will say fall.
God's Israel of the promises IS Jesus, His JEWISH FOLLOWERS with Gentiles grafted into that one nation.

God's Israel of the promises IS NOT Modern day, multi-ethnic Christ rejectors of any stripe, no matter how much you whish they are.

Ok so you say there are no Jews. Who the heck was Hitler chasing around and putting in concentration camps? Gentiles?????? Game, set, match!
 
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parousia70

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Ok so you say there are no Jews. Who the heck was Hitler chasing around and putting in concentration camps? Gentiles??????

Exactly. Gentiles.
Looks like you are beginning to understand the genetic facts.
Hitler wasn't the smartest Knife in the socket.


Game, set, match!
ROTFLMAO!
 
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Erik Nelson

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https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/will-temple-rebuilt/

the clearest connection with the eschatological Temple described by Ezekiel can be found in the words Jesus uttered during the priestly watering-pouring ceremony during the Feast of Tabernacles.

Jesus declared: “He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.” (John 7:38) The Scripture to which Jesus is undoubtedly referring describes the river that makes the desert green and all dead things alive again. That river flows directly from the belly of the Temple that Ezekiel saw in his vision (Ezek. 47:1-9).
 
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parousia70

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Ok then take 100,000 atheists and another 100,000 Christians and ask them the opposite of fulness and not a single on will say fall.

Why do you rail so hard against the authority of the Apostle Paul regarding the definition of Fulness?

Why do you seek Hundreds of thousands of uninspired strangers to offer up their OPPOSITE definition to that of the Inspired Apostle Paul, then claim theirs is the authoritative interpretation and Paul's ought to be discarded as useless?

You have it totally backward.
 
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Josephus says that Herod's temple was decorated with gold grape vines with gold grape clusters the height of a man

Jesus said he was the true vine, with heavenly value far in excess of mundane worldly metals (John 15)
 
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Josephus says that Herod's temple was decorated with gold grape vines with gold grape clusters the height of a man

Jesus said he was the true vine, with heavenly value far in excess of mundane worldly metals (John 15)
Walt Disney said “We’ll settle down and get this place operating”

Little Willie Snauzunkle said he couldn't sleep because Dumbo The Flying Elephant ride was closed.
 
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Why do you rail so hard against the authority of the Apostle Paul regarding the definition of Fulness?

Why do you seek Hundreds of thousands of uninspired strangers to offer up their OPPOSITE definition to that of the Inspired Apostle Paul, then claim theirs is the authoritative interpretation and Paul's ought to be discarded as useless?

You have it totally backward.
Why do you make up things?
 
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parousia70

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Why do you make up things?

Paul says Fulness, when used in the NT, is a quality and not a quantity and is the opposite of "fall".

ChooseWisely says, No, Paul is incorrect, and 200,000 other people have it right instead of Paul.

What part of that is made up by me?
 
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BABerean2

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Wasn't Masada destroyed in 73AD. They say only 2 woman and 5 children escaped. So your statement makes no sense.

From the link below.
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia


"Three Years After the War

We now come to the final appraisal of the complete desolation of Jerusalem. Note what Eleazar, the final Jewish commander at Masada, related three years after the war was finished at Jerusalem. He gives an eyewitness account of how the Romans preserved Fort Antonia (the Haram) among the ruins. What Eleazar said to the 960 Jewish people (who were to commit suicide rather than fall into the hands of General Silva who was on the verge of capturing the Fortress of Masada) is very important in regard to our present inquiry. This final Jewish commander lamented over the sad state of affairs that everyone could witness at this twilight period of the conflict after the main war with the Romans was over.

Jerusalem was to Eleazar a disastrous spectacle of utter ruin. There was only one thing that remained of the former Jerusalem that Eleazar could single out as still standing. This was the Camp of the Romans that Titus permitted to remain as a monument of humiliation over the Mother City of the Jews. Eleazar acknowledged that this military encampment had been in Jerusalem before the war, and that Titus let it continue after the war. The retention of this single Camp of the Romans, according to Eleazar, was a symbol of the victory that Rome had achieved over the Jewish people. His words are recorded in War VII.8,7. Several words and phrases need emphasizing, and I hope I have done so:

"And where is now that great city [Jerusalem], the metropolis of the Jewish nation, which was fortified by so many walls round about, which had so many fortresses and large towers to defend it, which could hardly contain the instruments prepared for the war, and which had so many ten thousands of men to fight for it? Where is this city that was believed to have God himself inhabiting therein? it is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing left but THAT MONUMENT of it preserved, I mean THE CAMP OF THOSE [the Romans] that hath destroyed it, WHICH STILL DWELLS UPON ITS RUINS; some unfortunate old men also lie ashes upon the of the Temple [the Temple was then in total ruins — all of it had been burnt to ashes], and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy, for our bitter shame and reproach."

What Eleazar said must be reckoned as an eyewitness account of the state of Jerusalem in the year A.D.73. This narrative is of utmost importance to our question at hand. This is because Eleazar admitted that the City of Jerusalem and all its Jewish fortresses had indeed been demolished "to the very foundations." There was nothing left of the City or the Temple. This is precisely what Jesus prophesied would happen."

.
 
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Paul says Fulness, when used in the NT, is a quality and not a quantity and is the opposite of "fall".

ChooseWisely says, No, Paul is incorrect, and 200,000 other people have it right instead of Paul.

What part of that is made up by me?
All of it is made up by you. And I certainly did not say Paul was incorrect ......I SAID YOU WERE INCORRECT..........and you are. The scripture is saying how much more the fullness of the Jews will be as opposed to the Gentiles. It's pretty cut and dried. All you have to do is read it. No need making things up.

It's a little hard for me to type right now because I'm still shaking my head regarding your comment about Hitler and the Jews. So Hitler was chasing an imaginary Jew. Imagine that. I can't.
 
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