a scripture based look at Daniel 9:

[Just The Facts]

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

 

[disciple Clint]

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

I think you may be talking about this. What is the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27? | Bibleinfo.com

 

[Just The Facts]

I think you may be talking about this. What is the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27? | Bibleinfo.com

No I asking the question I asked. WHY WAS IT 70 Years?

Nothing in the Bibile is just willy nilly. There is a reason God chose 70 years. Scripture must tell us why. So I am asking where is it explained in scripture why it was 70 years.

And no you do not need to believe in a day for a year to understand this prophecy you just need to understand.......why!!!!!

 

[disciple Clint]

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

OK sorry, I think this will give you the information you are looking for, it not just shoot me. Daniel 9: The 70-Years Prophecy of Jeremiah

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Disciple Clint

Why yes it does after many, many words....lol.... but I was actually wanting people to just post scripture hence the Title of the Thread. I am sure every one here knows the standard diatribe on the many differing versions of what these weeks are and when they began etc etc.

I just think before you can get into the weeks of years it would help to know what the heck Daniel is actually talking about. and what his understanding of all this was.

Lev 25:[2] "Say to the people of Israel, When you come into the land which I give you, the land shall keep a sabbath to the LORD. [3] Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather in its fruits;

So what is the curse of the covenant Daniel is talking about?

Well Actually Lev 25 and 26 lays it all out doesn't it. The Blessings and the curse of the covenant.

[1]"You shall make for yourselves no idols and erect no graven image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land, to bow down to them; for I am the LORD your God.[2] You shall keep my sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.[3]"If you walk in my statutes and observe my commandments and do them,[4] then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.[5] And your threshing shall last to the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last to the time for sowing; and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land securely.[6] And I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid; and I will remove evil beasts from the land, and the sword shall not go through your land.[7] And you shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.[8] Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall chase ten thousand; and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.[9] And I will have regard for you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and will confirm my covenant with you.[10] And you shall eat old store long kept, and you shall clear out the old to make way for the new.[11] And I will make my abode among you, and my soul shall not abhor you.[12] And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people.

That is the blessing part.

So from Daniel's perspective this is exactly what has just happened. We need to remember Daniel is a Priest and they lived and breathed the books of Moses. So they violated the Covenant as clearly laid out by Jeremiah and so The Curse of the Covenant as clearly laid out in Leviticus is poured out upon them as Daniel so quaintly puts it.

[14]"But if you will not hearken to me, and will not do all these commandments,[15] if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,[16] I will do this to you: I will appoint over you sudden terror, consumption, and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it;[17] I will set my face against you, and you shall be smitten before your enemies; those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.

Even Stating this

"Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate, while you are in your enemies' land; then the land shall rest, and enjoy its sabbaths.[35] As long as it lies desolate it shall have rest, the rest which it had not in your sabbaths when you dwelt upon it.

So now we have established what scripture says the 70 years are for. We know why it was 70 years. We know that 70 Sabbath years were missed during the Years from Saul the the Babylonian Captivity.

So first the Israelite's are dragged away then the Jews and the Land will lie desolate for 70 years and have the rest it missed while they were on it.

So the next question is what about when they are in captivity does the curse stop when they are dragged away or are they still under the rules of the covenant even in captivity........................ and the answer is yes they are still under the covenant.

SO what now what if they repent

"But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery which they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me,[41] so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity; [42] then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.

Ok So God will return them to their Glory and remember the Covenant.

SO ....did they repent while they were in captivity?..........Well we know they did not.... all worshiped the statue except three men.

[13] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this calamity has come upon us, yet we have not entreated the favor of the LORD our God, turning from our iniquities and giving heed to thy truth.

So what happens in the curse of the covenant if they do not repent?

[23]"And if by this discipline you are not turned to me, but walk contrary to me,[24] then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will smite you sevenfold for your sins.

So they will be punished seven times or sevenfold for their refusal to repent.

So Daniel prays, confesses they have violated the covenant and asked to be told when will the seventy years of punishment be over and when will the Israelite iniquity be healed. And make no mistake the Covenant calls it their iniquity.

[39] And those of you that are left shall pine away in your enemies' lands because of their iniquity; and also because of the iniquities of their fathers they shall pine away like them. [40] "But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery which they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me, [41] so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity;

So it is very clear this is all about the Hebrews Sins, the Hebrews iniquity that Daniel is asking for answers on.

So Daniel asks the question and the answer comes back...

[24]"Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

The answer is not what he wanted to hear. They have not repented so Seven Times more for their sins as they are still under the curse of the covenant and if they do not repent God will increase the punishment by seven times.

SO 70 years times 7 = 490 years

Now we see that the 490 years is not a random number it is what is laid out in the very curse of the Covenant Daniel speaks of in this chapter.

Notice it is concerning your people to put an end to THEIR SIN TO ATONE FOR THEIR INIQUITY all exactly as laid out in the curse of the covenant Daniel speaks of

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. And the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

It is not about Jesus dying on the cross and ending sin to atone for mankind's iniquity as some doctrines of men teach. It is about exactly what it says it is about Their iniquity their sins their violation of the covenant and their punishment for it.

The reality is only after the 490 years can the Promise to Abraham Issac and Jacob and Jacob be fulfilled and not one day sooner because they are still being punished for the whole 490 years.

This prophecy starts with the decree of Cyrus as stated by Daniel himself in verse one and ends 490 years later with the end of the Priest king line in 47 BC. After that then can the promise to Abraham be fulfilled.

This prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus the anti christ or any thing else that has been added to it after 120 AD.

Use common sense ask yourself this question, if this prophecy actually names the very year Jesus was born then why did not Jesus and the Apostles directly refer to it over and over as proof Jesus was the Messiah. They refer to dozens and dozens of other scriptures but just leave out the one prophecy that supposedly names the exact year of Jesus's birth. Please that is just plain nonsense. They would have quoted it over and over as the most compelling proof of Jesus being the Messiah. Why didn't the Pharisees tell Herod the exact year Jesus was to be born why all the mystery. Apparently only the wise men knew the Messiah was born because of some star!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But the very people who read and studied the word of God day after day were what....Just to stupid to be able to add?????? Really ...Seriously.

The earliest Church Fathers knew the truth of this prophecy its time you did too.

 

[Douggg]

What I am reading at various sites, the 70 years was 70 years because Israel failed to observe 70 Sabbath years. Part of which is to let the land rest every 7th year. So, even though the captivity would be over at the end of the 70 years....the overall learning to stay away from transgresson would 70 x 70 would be the 490 years.

My comment is that in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, that Moses made it a law that the leaders of Israel were to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle, and on the feast of tabernacles to give a big speech that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. Which is the confirming of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 for 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

This prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus the anti christ or any thing else that has been added to it after 120 AD.

Yes, the 7 years does. Proven so because the Jews (Israel) has yet to embrace Jesus as the messiah.

The arch villain of the end times is all through the bible. Revelation chapters 6-19 are structured on that 7 year 70 week of Daniel 9.

The 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9 is still forthcoming.

 

[Douggg]

Use common sense ask yourself this question, if this prophecy actually names the very year Jesus was born then why did not Jesus and the Apostles directly refer to it over and over as proof Jesus was the Messiah.

Who here was there to know that the apostles did not do so?

Luke 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[mark kennedy]

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

I'm not entirely sure what the fascination is with the ancient Hebrews and things that come in 7s, but it's distinctive. The first 69 groups of 7 years end with the crucifixion, at the end of the final 7 is supposed to be the coming of the kingdom. Apparently the last 7 years has been suspended.

 

[BABerean2]

This prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
(From the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.



Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

..................................................................

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello

You Guys are all jumping into the same two Diatribe that have been used over and over again and denying what Daniel is plainly stating and the question he is asking. Please stop jumping to your Doctrinal beliefs of what prophetic doctrine is being said in the seventy weeks and just deal with the question Daniel asked.

The Angel didn't say I am going to totally ignore your question and give you a totally unrelated answer did he.

He is not asking when Jesus will be born he asking when their punishment will be over for their sins against the covenant for Their iniquity. He states the Question very plainly and the Angel also says quite plainly he has come to give him the answer to that question.

The Messiah is not mentioned once by Daniel He is only concerned with the 70 years and when it will be over.

Side note: the MIS-TRANSLATION of "Anointed One" to say Messiah is perhaps one of the most blatant examples of the Doctrine of the Translator changing the word of God in the Whole Translation out of Hebrew and Greek. The Hebrew Word used in Daniel 9 does not mean Messiah it means Anointed one. The Translator especially Jerome into Latin let their personal doctrinal beliefs influence their translation and thus alter the word of God.

 

[eleos1954]

Hello All

So lets start at the beginning.

[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

So Why 70 years? Does anyone have a scriptural based answer to this first question we must ask if we want to look at Daniel 9 with Scripture as our basis.

Why Was Jerusalem to suffer 70 years? Why not 20 years 40 years? Why 70 Years?

Second which will actually help answer Question 1 what is Daniel talking about here.

[11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. and the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

What is this curse that Daniel is talking about that he clearly states is the basis of the 70 years of punishment?

The 70 years is part of the larger prophesy of the 2300 days (years). Within the 2300 day (year) prophesy there are certain "bench marks" that happen and what happens within them to show prophesy unfolding. They affirm prophesies are indeed from God and that they do indeed occur just as He says they will. Gives confidence ... in that God is ... and the Word of God and prophecies are fully true and can be relied upon. Proof that He is who He says He is. (knowing the end from the beginning)

Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

The curses

They broke covenant with God - disobeyed God

The Curses of Disobedience

Deuteronomy 28

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and over take you. 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field ... (much on curses here)

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Eleos

Whether or not it is part of the 2300 prophecy is another whole topic.

I am trying to just deal with why it was 70 years ie: the scripture that says why 70 years. Which is the covenant as Daniel states quite clearly.

Second what the covenant says will happen if the do not repent? Which Daniel says they did not do.

Which leads us to why the answer of the Angel is a further 490 years of punishment.

Covenant says if they fail to repent they will be punished seven times more.

so 70 years times 7 = WOW Guess what it is 490 years of punishment just like the Angel tells Daniel

 

[eleos1954]

Hi Eleos

Whether or not it is part of the 2300 prophecy is another whole topic.

I am trying to just deal with why it was 70 years ie: the scripture that says why 70 years. Which is the covenant as Daniel states quite clearly.

Second what the covenant says will happen if the do not repent? Which Daniel says they did not do.

Which leads us to why the answer of the Angel is a further 490 years of punishment.

Covenant says if they fail to repent they will be punished seven times more.

so 70 years times 7 = WOW Guess what it is 490 years of punishment just like the Angel tell Daniel

When prophesy is given, and it happens, and the more detail(s) of the prophecy occurs, it dismisses the "happen chance" or coincidence belief(s) ... that is ... it happens just like stated and within the time frame(s) as stated ... therefore we can trust Gods word.

 

[Just The Facts]

Baberena2

You are using scripture unrelated to Daniel 9, the 70 years, the curse of the covenant, The Sins and Iniquity Daniel clearly sates as his people's not the worlds, his question and the Angels answer............. all to back a doctrine created in the mid third century by the blind.

Please stick to the thread topic

Scripture as to Why was it 70 years and what the curse is.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Eleos

Yes perhaps......... but threads tend to wander. I think it is important to deal with these issues in a very issue specific way.

As you can see by the replys I am getting everyone wants to just jump past what Daniel is actually talking about jump past his question and post their understanding of the 70 weeks.

The reality is you can not possibly understand the answer if you do not know what the question is or if you ignore the question all together

 

[Hank77]

Hi Eleos

Whether or not it is part of the 2300 prophecy is another whole topic.

I am trying to just deal with why it was 70 years ie: the scripture that says why 70 years. Which is the covenant as Daniel states quite clearly.

Second what the covenant says will happen if the do not repent? Which Daniel says they did not do.

Which leads us to why the answer of the Angel is a further 490 years of punishment.

Covenant says if they fail to repent they will be punished seven times more.

so 70 years times 7 = WOW Guess what it is 490 years of punishment just like the Angel tells Daniel

How many years were they in captivity in Babylon....70 or 490?

 

[Of the Kingdom]

Thanks for

As you can see by the replys I am getting everyone wants to just jump past what Daniel is actually talking about jump past his question and post their understanding of the 70 weeks.

Thanks for your careful step-by-step analysis of this. It is tempting to jump ahead, since we ultimately want to see how this relates to Jesus, but we need to take each verse in order. I had never seen the idea of the 490 years being the sevenfold judgment after the 70 year exile, and I appreciate that. The next verses can read to anoint the Holy Place, an anointed one, and an anointed one. I want to hear your take on these next few verses before we jump ahead and miss more of the story.

 

[BABerean2]

You are using scripture unrelated to Daniel 9, the 70 years, the curse of the covenant, The Sins and Iniquity Daniel clearly sates as his people's not the worlds,

Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the prophecy begins.
The promise of the New Covenant is found in the Book of Jeremiah along with the fact that Israel had broken the Old Covenant.

Dan 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;
Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
(See Daniel 9:24, and Hebrews 10:16-18.)



Christ is the New Covenant.

To claim that Daniel 9 has nothing to do with Christ ignores the words of Christ found below.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Are you a Christian?

.