Demons - real or not?

[Cis.jd]

Yes I do... yet you have not given solid bible based scripture that supports your view that unbelievers can acquire salvation based on being good people.

Where I have given numerous scripture and commentary that support the well documented and biblical sound truth that anyone, anywhere, with any past sin, can receive salvation. AND, anyone that refuses to accept the fact that God is God and Christ was Christ... will not receive salvation... no matter how good they think they are or YOU think they are. No matter how deserving we think they are of eternal life...denial of Christ is not going to end well for their soul.

I have given a solid based scripture. The problem here is that you are taking the muslim tactic in where you want an exact sentence verse.

Your verses and commentary does not support your case, what it shows is you cherry pick and disregard other verses that try to tell you that your views of these verses being some case closed commentary instead of being expanded by another verse.

For you to say that Jesus only cares about you believing in him and that all good or bad illustrates a conceited, insecure, and evil god. And as much as you want to debate your half-scriptural views there is no way you can rationalize why this god you talk about is loving, good, and just if he just created life for his own selfish-purposes and gave them an ultimatum. No morals to follow. It's just worship him period. That is the personality of God that you say is scriptural. Now, go somewhere where non-believers are and describe him.. watch how nobody will see him as a loving god but an evil one. Because common sense, that is evil.

 

[Cis.jd]

Then, why did He leave His place in Glory.. take on the form of a human.. as a baby.. live a very tough life, suffer and die on the cross and rise again?


Why?


How do you apply non believers being saved when we read this:


Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.



10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Acts 16:30-31 King James Version (KJV)

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?


31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.




I am telling you the truth: he who believes has eternal life. (John 6:47)


Isaiah 57:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.

To give us all a chance. Why have you not taken the rest of the verses in consideration? Surely you should be aware that when you have one verse saying this and another verse saying that, what it means is that these verses are puzzle pieces to the message and the theology. Trinity being an example of that.

You've posted the verse in revelation in where you read God will judge those according to thy works, you also have been shown the verses with Jesus' response to the rich man's question.

Another thing you are taking in mind is the verse we've discussed earlier is Matthew 12:32. Not only do you see Jesus say that any word against him is forgiven, but you see the Lord implying that there are at least some sins that can be forgiven in the next life to a people who already believed it. Doesn't that show the mercy of God that unbelievers still have this chance to finally accept him. The reason why you don't get this verse is because you haven't read Maccabees, now before you go "it's not canon" just take in note that it is still regarded historically by the Jews.

Basically, if you hold on to the belief of an all loving, good, and just God it is nearly illogical to think that he is going to send others to hell in where they burn forever because they didn't worship him.

 

[Cis.jd]

I understand why you argue with me. It is because you, and understandably so, as well as many people believe, God should be letting all the nice people into heaven and the mean evil and violent people who hurt others should go to hell...

You also believe that there should be punishment for these atrocious evil hurtful sins such as the holocaust, serial killers, ISIS, kidnappers, and any other violent or physiologically damaging assaults against other humans.

Yes, i believe they should go to hell. As you said, many people, probably including yourself does. Because you know what evil is, which is that. I went to this museum that features the clothes of all the women who were raped and murdered, a few of those dresses belonged to girls ranging from 1-7 years old. 1 girl, being an infant was gang raped, beaten, and burned. 2 of those guys ended up you honestly think, that theoretically if her rapists accepted Jesus that Jesus is now going to sweep that under the rug and just let them in heaven instantly because of just merely accepting him, while people who lived normal lives but just were ignorant in faith are going to hell? At the same time you believe this god is all good and loving?

That whole "our minds are limited" is a straw-mans argument for this topic because you don't need to have an infinite, omniscient mind to determine this basic concept of good and evil. If you can't understand why it is wrong to just give instant freedom and forgiveness towards those who committed horrible atrocities towards others and think those who just don't believe are evil that they will automatically get the death penalty which is hell. Then what morals can you teach others in relation to your religious beliefs? You give all these cherry picked verses, not only ignoring the basic method of defining contexts by making sure it's not contradicting other verses brought up, but you can't even give a rational explanation as to why this god is good, loving and just if this is what he does.

The best example of this is Saul of Tarsus. This man, a Jewish leader and well educated in the law of that time, hated Christians. He was feared by them and systematically murdered them. That was his goal.. end this new fanatic following of Christ, who's teaching was a blight to the existing religious paradigm.

Yet, this murderous evil hearted man, who was running wild in Israel, was saved and went on to be one of the most famous and honored writers of the NT.

Who did Paul systematically murder and how many? I understand that he consented to murders, and lead groups that hunted and persecuted christians which resulted to the first Martyr but I've never heard/read about him killing someone himself other than from a Muslim.

Nevertheless, this goes back to Matt 5:26. Which Paul did. Paul didn't sit down and just accepted Jesus, he got up and worked to pay for his transgressions as shown in the bible. I never said that repentance doesn't get you into heaven, i've been arguing that repentance isn't limited to just the 1st life, as Jesus said with the Unforgivable sins.

 

[Francis Drake]

What then, if I am "opposite" to Christ's teaching, is the method of gaining salvation?

Coming to Faith, like a child is.. well I cannot say it any better than Billy Graham.. so here: (from What did Jesus mean when He said we have to become like a little child if we're going to follow Him?)


Jesus’ words about our need to become like little children are important, however. (You can find them in Mark 10:15.) One of the main reasons people reject Jesus is pride; they believe they don’t need Him and can make it through life on their own. But only when we renounce our pride and come to Him with the humility and trust of a child can we be saved.


Don’t let your pride, or anything else, keep you from Christ. Instead, humble yourself before Him, and trust your life completely to Him. Then commit all you are and all you have into His hands, for He alone is “the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6).

But, hey, what is the requirements for salvation from you point of view?

Like most people, you are conflating being born again and salvation. Two entirely different, but linked issues.

Being born again is the simplest of all decisions. All that is required is a heart cry to God in response to the probing of the Holy Spirit on our heart.
Go read Romans1 and you will see there is no requirement to understand scripture. All you have to do is look at the beauty of God's creation and you will know the creator. And knowing the creator, what next?-

A humble man will respond, and the moment he cries out to God, in whatever form it might be, then new life is planted.

None of this is possible without a man humbling himself before his creator.​

That is the moment of conception, a matter between man and his maker.

Until that moment, a man remains unregenerate and spiritually dead to God. In such a state, he cannot possibly comprehend the message of the cross, and setting that message or the so called sinner's prayer as the bench mark of entry to new life is both stupid and completely unbiblical.

Why do I say this? Simply because the so called sinners prayer from Romans10 was written to the saints in Rome and not to the unregenerate!!!!!

Lets be clear, no unregenerate man can possibly understand the cross. So how can the message of the cross be the entry requirement.
Its like having the code for a combination lock written on the inside of a vault door. How can anyone ever possibly get access to such a door?

Salvation is an ongoing process of maturity, not a one off event, and the message of the cross is for moving forward in that salvation, and only of use for those who are already born again.​

So in practical terms, and personal experience. I was born again as a child because I encountered the presence of God in my bedroom. My parents were not practising Christians, and I have no teaching as such to draw on.
I just knew that God was there, and I asked him not to forget me. That's it.
I never spoke to anyone about this.

Sometime later, I encountered the Lord again, some time between the ages of 11 and 15. I know this because of where it occurred (over 50 years ago).
In this instance, distinctly heard God speak to me, telling me specific truths.

Then 10 years later in my mid 20s, I met some evangelists. Initially I was not at all interested in the Christian message, but I gradually realised they were talking about the God I already knew.
I then made a commitment and started walking with the Lord,

 

[Cis.jd]

Yes, we looked at the scripture surrounding that idea. This is not talking of a second chance for unbelievers, when they die, to be saved. Although, many will lean on this as if it was their one and only hope for salvation...

Well you didnt look at the scripture. You have two details being pointed out.
1. The only unforgivable sin is sin against the Holy Spirit. This alone refutes your entire case of non-believers not getting a second chance.
2. There is a next life

The sin against the HS being unforgiven even in the next life implies that other sins can be forgiven because why would Jesus mention the next life to emphasize how fatal of a sin it is. The message is so simple to understand "not in this life or the next". So there are two events being mentioned.

Again, this scripture is speaking of the non believers. The fact that they are at the white throne judgement confirms that they are already condemned, as I discussed already, and will not receive eternal life is support for the concept that there will be levels of torment in hell..

There is nothing in scripture that says they are just non-believers, but lets just go and play with your forced assertion here. If they were just non-believers as you said, what are they lining up for? How can they all be condemned when the bible says they are being judged by their works and that if their names are not in the book of life, they are thrown to the fire?

 

[JacksBratt]

Well you didnt look at the scripture. You have two details being pointed out.
1. The only unforgivable sin is sin against the Holy Spirit. This alone refutes your entire case of non-believers not getting a second chance.
2. There is a next life

The sin against the HS being unforgiven even in the next life implies that other sins can be forgiven because why would Jesus mention the next life to emphasize how fatal of a sin it is. The message is so simple to understand "not in this life or the next". So there are two events being mentioned.



There is nothing in scripture that says they are just non-believers, but lets just go and play with your forced assertion here. If they were just non-believers as you said, what are they lining up for? How can they all be condemned when the bible says they are being judged by their works and that if their names are not in the book of life, they are thrown to the fire?

I am truly sorry that you do not agree with me. But, I do not live my life trying to please everyone by agreeing with them.

You can go on believing that all the nice people go to heaven.. and all the evil people are bound for hell no matter what.

You can go on believing that people will get a second chance, after they die.. to make amends for their denial of Christ in their life on earth.

It makes for a real pretty picture. But, the bible does not teach this. Sorry.

I'm tired of this banter and we are not going to change each others minds.

Plus.. it is way off the topic of the OP.

God bless... and.. Look me up in paradise and we can sit down by the river of life and laugh about all the things that we were wrong about, concerning the truth of the ways of God.

 

[Cis.jd]

I am truly sorry that you do not agree with me. But, I do not live my life trying to please everyone by agreeing with them.

You can go on believing that all the nice people go to heaven.. and all the evil people are bound for hell no matter what.

You can go on believing that people will get a second chance, after they die.. to make amends for their denial of Christ in their life on earth.

It makes for a real pretty picture. But, the bible does not teach this. Sorry.

I'm tired of this banter and we are not going to change each others minds.

Plus.. it is way off the topic of the OP.

God bless... and.. Look me up in paradise and we can sit down by the river of life and laugh about all the things that we were wrong about, concerning the truth of the ways of God.

I guess we can agree to disagree.. but i urge you to look into this more.

Christianity has lost many to atheism and other religions and it is simply because of this message of God forcing lives to worship him or face an unimaginable doom.

 

[Lorre]

This is similar to my experience also.
It just proves how futile it is to cast demons out of unbelievers or people who are not really walking with the Lord.
It also proves that the deliverance ministry is meant for those who are the born again sons and daughters of the Most High God.

I would not say it is futile, I would do it again if necessary. However, next time I would press the person more if they were really interested in getting rid of the demon and ready to turn to Christ before praying over them.
I am not clear what you meant but I dont believe a born again believer can be possessed by a demon. A person can only be by the Holy Spirit or an evil spirit, but not both at the same time. However an unbeliever can be oppressed or possessed by evil spirits. What are your thots

 

[JacksBratt]

I guess we can agree to disagree.. but i urge you to look into this more.

Christianity has lost many to atheism and other religions and it is simply because of this message of God forcing lives to worship him or face an unimaginable doom.

Imagine that... lost to atheism due to the expectations of an entity that they don't even believe in.

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

These people are not "atheists". Atheists have a lack of belief in the existence of God or God's.

These people are rebels to the word of God. They are guilty of pride and arrogance.

What you are describing is this attitude:

"How dare God demand that I worship Him or face the penalty of my sins".

Seriously.. Do you think God should allow these people to live for all eternity in a paradise created for those that Love God?

Do you think that people who refuse to worship the one who:

1/ Created them and gave them life
2/ Left His place of Superiority and All Power, to take on a human mortal body.. and die a horrible death.........FOR THEM.
3/ Give the gift of salvation to them based on one simple act.... Admit that they are a sinner.

Do you think that people who shun these acts of a all powerful creator... and.. deny the obvious worship that God is due....

Do you think that these people should:

1/ Be allowed to spend eternal paradise created by the very God that made the paradise

and

2/ Would even want to spend any time in the presence of the God, Creator and Savior that they cannot even bring themself to worship for things that God is ultimately and undeniably worthy of?

You see, that is the ultimate slap in the face to God... Ultimate arrogance.

And.. I don't care if you gave your entire life to helping the poor, homeless, sick, dying, less fortunate and whatever..

If you are going to stand up and tell God that He is not worthy of this worship and Glory.. YOU DON'T DESERVE a second in Paradise.

All God is asking is that you accept that He is God and you are a sinner.... WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE, BASIC, UNDENIABLE TRUTH of every human that ever lived.

SO.. God is asking you to admit an absolute truth to your absolute creator and savior.. and you can't do it?????????

PATHETIC.

 

[JacksBratt]

I guess we can agree to disagree.. but i urge you to look into this more.

Christianity has lost many to atheism and other religions and it is simply because of this message of God forcing lives to worship him or face an unimaginable doom.

True atheists are not going to be concerned about anyone forcing them to worship something that they don't believe even exists.

People who turn to other religions due to their unwillingness to accept the simple actions that God expects of us..... have simply denied Him and His way.

Neither of these would want to spend eternity with Him...or... even believe that there is such an eternity.

They certainly will not be deserving of it.

 

[Francis Drake]

I would not say it is futile, I would do it again if necessary. However, next time I would press the person more if they were really interested in getting rid of the demon and ready to turn to Christ before praying over them.

And if in your "next time" they were not interested in turning to Christ, then it would surely be futile (ie, a waste of effort) because they cannot keep their deliverance?

I am not clear what you meant but I dont believe a born again believer can be possessed by a demon. A person can only be by the Holy Spirit or an evil spirit, but not both at the same time. However an unbeliever can be oppressed or possessed by evil spirits. What are your thots

The teaching that Christians cannot have demons is completely unbiblical, and a doctrine invented by demons themselves to make sure they never get cast out!
I have been casting demons out of people for the last 40 years, and everyone of them a spirit filled Christian!

There is no scriptural basis for the teaching that the Holy Spirit cannot indwell a Christian who also has demons.
If Christians can't have demons then there would be no need for instructions in scripture to cast demons out would there? All that would be needed is to get them born again.

Here's what Jesus commanded.-
Mark16v15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

1). Believers are directly commanded by Jesus to cast demons out.
2). The choice is between casting them out of believers or unbelievers.
3). When demons are cast out of unbelievers, its a waste of time because they can go back whenever they like.
4). When demons are cast out of believers, they have no free right of return.

And finally.-
5). If Christians cannot have demons, then it remains that the command of Jesus in the above verse is aimed entirely at evangelising the lost.
That being the case, how successful has all that deliverance your church has been doing whilst preaching?

One way or another, we are commanded to cast demons out. Why is it always ignored.

 

[Cis.jd]

True atheists are not going to be concerned about anyone forcing them to worship something that they don't believe even exists.

People who turn to other religions due to their unwillingness to accept the simple actions that God expects of us..... have simply denied Him and His way.

Neither of these would want to spend eternity with Him...or... even believe that there is such an eternity.

They certainly will not be deserving of it.

Your understanding of the world, psychology, and even the scriptures is very limited.

No one wants to submit to a dictator, and no one can love or feel any form of positive connection towards a higher power if it is all for the sake of not getting punished. This your message. And this what turns them away.
There is no difference in what you attribute to god that hasn't been attributed to every maniac believed Deity such as Allah and pagan gods of the past.

You not only have ignored all the verses but inserted random creative writings to them that were more guessed out on the top of your head instead of honestly looking at it objectively.

 

[JacksBratt]

Your understanding of the world, psychology, and even the scriptures is very limited.

No one wants to submit to a dictator, and no one can love or feel any form of positive connection towards a higher power if it is all for the sake of not getting punished. This your message. And this what turns them away.

God is not a dictator. He gives you all the free will in the world for your entire life.. to do as you please... 100%.

You can live your life. Do as you please. Work, live, love and laugh..... Just the same as any Christian.

The only thing is, that in order to live in eternal life, with God.. you cannot be unrighteous.

So, if your unrighteous, you cannot exist in heaven. Only those without sin will be allowed in heaven.

Therefore, the ball is in your court.

Every sinner (which is every human), If they want to be in heaven. Must pay the debt of their sin.

Simple.........right?

Thing is.. the payment, or punishment for sin.. is death. And, once you die (this is eternal death by the way), there is nothing left for life in paradise.

Really... this just means.. there is nothing that you can do.. as a sinner...to enter heaven.... Period.

BUT.. Christ died for you and is willing to pardon you. He has paid the debt and all you have to do is admit it...

How hard is that? I mean really.. You have to admit something that is undeniably true to the one that knows already anyway.

Not only that.. but He knew this before you did.... came down and died for your sins.

So, the debt is paid. The clerk has the cash in the bank.. the receipt is made out in your name.. all you have to do is claim it. Signed, sealed and delivered by your one and only creator..

It's up to you.

How in the world is that an unloving God.. a dictator... Seriously?

There is no difference in what you attribute to god that hasn't been attributed to every maniac believed Deity such as Allah and pagan gods of the past.

Did "Allah" start as a god and become a man.. die a suffering death, defeat it and hell... then resurrect himself for me?

Hardly.

 

[Cis.jd]

God is not a dictator. He gives you all the free will in the world for your entire life.. to do as you please... 100%.

Sir, if your entire argument was discrediting good people being saved because they are not following the leader, then that is being a dictator and all that free will is a complete lie because he created life with an ultimatum. No one asked to be created, no one was involved in the Garden of Eden, yet here we are made to worship or die. How is this not a dictator or an evil god?

Did "Allah" start as a god and become a man.. die a suffering death, defeat it and hell... then resurrect himself for me?

Hardly.

Why does that all matter, when at the end of the day so many people who don't worship him for whatever reason are all going to experience everlasting torment? What you gave about God is the same views Jihadists have of Allah in where anyone who doesn't submit is evil and deserve to die according to Allah. So if I (as well as yourself) don't worship Allah, we both are destined to burn in hell.. now, is that a fair thing? Or does he have to just come down and die for you to make it less evil?

The point of all of this is that there is no way you can rationalize a good, just, loving God if you cling into the false doctrine of faith alone. You were given already that verse of revelation, in where you said "they are all unbelievers" and you can see God is judging them based on their works.

 

[alv_c]

p.s.

I think that the decrease in exorcisms and increase in the use of psychiatry, pharmaceuticals and hospital stays is not merely a coincidence.
We no longer use men of God to cast out demons but we use psychiatrists instead.
It's controversial to link mental health with demons, the last couple of hundred years we have been told to sever the link and not to "demonise" these disorders.
It's funny we keep getting told not to demonise mental illness or demonise sufferers.

Well as a person who has struggled with anxiety and depression all her life, who has unsuccessfully been on and off medication, seen dozens of therapists (some of the best in London) ONLY FAITH CURES.

I am no authority but after decades of personal experience, demon oppression and possession is everywhere! Look at the statistics for depression, suicide, drug addiction, alcoholism and personality disorders.
Demonic possession and oppression is doing a roaring trade in the twenty first century.

Everyone thought that medicalising it all would help. It's had the opposite effect. The world has done its best to remove God and let science play god.
I have spoken to psychiatrists and they admit that not only can they not cope with the mental health crisis we are having in the Western world but with some disorders they do not have a clue how to treat. They just write scripts and throw pills at people and hope they'll work.

The irony about no longer "demonising" mental illness when it is probably contributed to by demons in the first place.

Demons are real, but have a different origination than angels. I suggest you read these two studies, the first one explains the concept of airflows, which explains how demons are invisible and can possess a body. And the other explains the history of demons and fallen angels,

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/08/2...-word-spirit-the-identity-of-the-wind-of-god/
The Dragon, the Origination of Demons, What the Transgression of Satan Was, and the Story of Fallen Angels | Wisdom of God

 

[JacksBratt]

Sir, if your entire argument was discrediting good people being saved because they are not following the leader, then that is being a dictator and all that free will is a complete lie because he created life with an ultimatum. No one asked to be created, no one was involved in the Garden of Eden, yet here we are made to worship or die. How is this not a dictator or an evil god?

I am so sad that you have this attitude. I work with several people who lived under communist governments. They have told us stories of how everything was taken from them and they worked like dogs just to eek out enough to feed, clothe and shelter.

It was a terrible life and no freedom... and instant incarceration for even thinking wrongly.

Thing is, they were stuck there. Under the heavy hand of a dictatorship and no chance to get out from the control.

Let's look at God. He created you. Let's you do whatever you want. No matter what, a Christian, non Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or person of any other religion.. will have the exact same chances in life and face the same pitfalls, celebrations, opportunities, strengths and sicknesses.... under God (ignoring limitations put on people my mankind even in the name of some god).

So, every human is equal, in the site of God, no matter what choices they make... they will live, love, laugh, cry... and die. God does not intervene... You have your life...yours to live.

Is it sounding like a dictatorship yet?

Here is the part that you don't like.. It sticks in your throat and you just cannot swallow it...

In life, you have done things that went against the moral, ethical and loving behavior that every human understands to be acceptable and "right".

Thing is, since you have done these things.. you cannot say that you are a perfect person. Neither can God.

Since nobody can stand in the same room as God, when they are not totally perfect... you cannot spend eternity with Him.

Think of it this way... You are a piece of phosphorous. If we hold you out in the air.. you will combust, burn and be gone.

That's what happens to any human, who has sinned, when they stand before God.

I cannot help it if you don't like it... it's just the truth.

God did not make us to be this way. We were supposed to live like Adam and Eve before the fall. They walked with God everyday.

Anyway, God created us for love fellowship and a relationship with Him. That all went sideways... Thanks Adam and Eve.

So, God, in total love for His creation, left the mighty and Holy place and took on a lowly human body, lived like every other human.. ate, slept, got sick, got sore feet.. then.. died a terrible death.

Why? Because He lived without sin... but paid the punishment for all sin.


Now, all a human has to do is say "Christ died on the cross and paid for my sins".... That's it

Then, Christ's blood covers your sins like liquid wax covers phosphorus. Then the phosphorus can be held out in the air and not burn up.

When God looks at you, in the same room, you can survive because God sees the righteousness of Christ covering you. You are pardoned.. and white as snow.. you are sinless.

Sound like a dictator yet?

This gift of salvation is open to anyone who asks. ANYONE.

So, if they don't ask... Who is to blame? God? Hardly.

 

[JacksBratt]

Why does that all matter, when at the end of the day so many people who don't worship him for whatever reason are all going to experience everlasting torment?

Well, do you not think that that is pretty stupid? They are worried about everlasting torment.. from a God that they don't believe exists.. in a place they don't believe exists... in an after life they don't believe is real... what on earth are they worried about?

Secondly... if they do believe God exists and has the power to put them in that place.. for eternity.... Would you not think that they would also think that He is pretty powerful?

Not only that.. but, if He is that powerful.... what is keeping them from admitting that they have done wrong and ask for passage from this hell?


The whole thing is a messed up logic. It makes no sense..They are worried about something that doesn't exist.. or they believe it exists but refuse to just ask to avoid it. That is just plain dumb.

 

[JacksBratt]

What you gave about God is the same views Jihadists have of Allah in where anyone who doesn't submit is evil and deserve to die according to Allah.

Not even close. Radical Muslims are told that they are to convert me... or.. they can kill me.

God does not come close.. I can witness to you, but if you disagree.. we can still go golfing, have a few beers and back to work...

Sheeesh... if you have no clue as to the numerous and drastic difference between Islam and Christ's teachings.... I am not going to have the time to even start.

 

[JacksBratt]

Or does he have to just come down and die for you to make it less evil?

The whole "dying for us" is a glaring icon of how much He loves us.

Would you not be held as a hero if your neighbor was going to get hit by a bus.. and you knocked them out of the way.. knowing that you would die.. to save them?

John 15:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


Now, understand that this example is you, a human, dying for ONE other HUMAN....

What if a King stepped in front of the sword meant for a lowly peasant? On purpose... intentionally... Think that would ever happen?

Well, now look at the creator of everything.. taking a bullet for you, His creation.

Still think He is evil... or ... does He love you as one of His very own?

 

[JacksBratt]

The point of all of this is that there is no way you can rationalize a good, just, loving God if you cling into the false doctrine of faith alone. You were given already that verse of revelation, in where you said "they are all unbelievers" and you can see God is judging them based on their works.

Yes, there will be unbelievers, judged by their works.. This is absolutely necessary as billions of people will have lived and died without even a sniff as to who Jesus was or that He even existed.

They will be judged by their works.. by a loving, awesome, just and righteous judge.

His judgement will be final.

His judgement will not be contested, appealed or questioned. The whole universe will stand in agreement to His decision.


Now, for you and I... We know the gospel. We know who Christ was, is and will be. We know what He did for us. We know that we are sinners.

If we deny His work... Deny His gift of salvation.. Deny His love... reject Him...

Then, we will be as filthy rags in the sight of His father. We will not be able to exist in His presence.


As for atheists... I... for the life of me... cannot understand what they are so up in arms and worried about...

Sheesh... there is no God.. so what's the big deal.... Go die and exist no more... as you believe.

Stop bugging us and telling us that we should think like you do.

Let me live with the hope that I will spend an eternity in paradise.......

Go sit in your doom gloom and You live you die the end... pathetic story.