Canadian SC: Christian law school can't forbid students from gay sex

[Belk]

That is absurd. The baker did not recognize homosexual marriage, the state did not recognize homosexual marriage, and yet the state punishes the baker for not recognizing the same thing the state did not, under the premise of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which is what the state constitution did.

No, this is not factually correct. The baker was not asked to recognize anything. That is not the purpose for which one goes to a baker. One goes to a baker to buy a baked good. In this case the couple who went was denied a cake. The same sort of cake that other couples were able to purchase. Because the state has a law against this the baker got in trouble.

Certainly you are not required to be legally married to request a wedding cake, but neither should you be required to recognize any definition of marriage by providing for the celebration of it. Since homosexual marriage was not recognized by the state, then it no legal status than as did a marriage btwn an man and a animal.

The baker was not asked to recognize a marriage.

But while the state could charge the baker with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, the point is that the state did the same by not recognizing homosexual marriage/
That is hardly a red herring.

Since the baker was not in trouble for "not recognizing homosexual marriage" yes, it is a red herring. What the baker got in trouble for was not providing a service based on sexual orientation. That has nothing to do with the legality of marriage.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That is absurd. The baker did not recognize homosexual marriage

Nobody asked him to.

, the state did not recognize homosexual marriage

Nobody asked it to.

the state punishes the baker for not recognizing the same thing the state did not

Nobody was asked to recognize anything. The baker was asked to bake a cake, a service he publicly advertises and announces that he does do.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Meat is om the menu also, identified as kosher, and wedding on the baker's menu as identified by his faith and the law .

That's right, you should be able to order any kosher meat on the menu or any wedding cake on the menu that appeals to you.

 

[redleghunter]

A tax on wearing yurmakles is a tax on being Jewish.

And a request for an other than Christ sanctioned union is a violation of JP's free exercise of religion.

 

[redleghunter]

Justice Scalia put it best. A tax on wearing yurmakles is a tax on being Jewish.

It was against CO to buy a cake celebrating a marriage held in another state?

No you said it was against CO law for Jack Phillips to deny the cake. I pointed out at the time CO only recognized traditional marriage.

 

[redleghunter]

Irrelevant.

Completely relevant. Ham is not on a Jewish Kosher menu because ham is not Kosher.

 

[redleghunter]

If a business owner does not sell something as a normal course of their business, they have no obligation to provide it.

Weddings were not a normal course business. It was separately contracted.

Jack Phillips offered the couple anything else ready made or to order...just not wedding cakes for obvious religious reasons.

 

[redleghunter]

What? He sells cakes that people use to celebrate marriages all the time.

Yes of course and at the time the couple's union was not recognized by the state of CO. And to boot in the faith and religion of Jack Phillips the couple's union was sin.

 

[redleghunter]

No, this is not factually correct. The baker was not asked to recognize anything. That is not the purpose for which one goes to a baker.

They were asking for a wedding cake which requires a separate contract. Lets say Jack bakes the cake for their wedding celebration. By signing the contract, taking their money, designing the WEDDING CAKE, how is not that an endorsement according to his faith?

 

[bhsmte]

Weddings were not a normal course business. It was separately contracted.

Jack Phillips offered the couple anything else ready made or to order...just not wedding cakes for obvious religious reasons.

The dude sold wedding cakes as a normal course of his business, sorry.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes of course

You seem to be saying that if I (as a goy) go into a Jewish deli and order a kosher sandwich, the sandwich magically becomes trayf and they will be unable to serve me because they only have kosher things on the menu.

 

[redleghunter]

Nobody was asked to recognize anything. The baker was asked to bake a cake, a service he publicly advertises and announces that he does do.

I get it you are an atheist. There is this thing called religion and faith and some of us actually strive daily to hold to our convictions before a Holy God. It's not the Rotary Club or a hobby. Add to this our Constitution protects the free the exercise of one's religion. Part of some of those religions out there is actually doing what that religion teaches.

A wedding cake is for a wedding and the request was to design one for an unsanctioned union in the man's faith as part of his free exercise. For heavens sake go to a Muslim bakery and ask them instead.

 

[redleghunter]

Nobody was asked to recognize anything. The baker was asked to bake a cake, a service he publicly advertises and announces that he does do.

I get it you are an atheist. There is this thing called religion and faith and some of us actually strive daily to hold to our convictions before a Holy God. It's not the Rotary Club or a hobby. Add to this our Constitution protects the free the exercise of one's religion. Part of some of those religions out there is actually doing and observing what that religion teaches.

A wedding cake is for a wedding and the request was to design one for an unsanctioned union in the man's faith as part of his free exercise. For heavens sake go to a Muslim bakery and ask them instead.

 

[redleghunter]

You seem to be saying that if I (as a goy) go into a Jewish deli and order a kosher sandwich, the sandwich magically becomes trayf and they will be unable to serve me because they only have kosher things on the menu.

Ha, that was a good one.

Everything JP served to the general public was offered to all.

It would be more like telling the Kosher butcher the side of beef he was cutting for me was going to be used at neo Nazi convention.

 

[essentialsaltes]

They were asking for a wedding cake which requires a separate contract. Lets say Jack bakes the cake for their wedding celebration. By signing the contract, taking their money, designing the WEDDING CAKE, how is not that an endorsement according to his faith?

Because the contract does not have a clause saying "In addition to baking a cake and giving it to you in exchange for money, I fully endorse everything that happens within thirty feet of my cake until it is consumed, especially the gay stuff."

 

[essentialsaltes]

It would be more like telling the Kosher butcher the side of beef he was cutting for me was going to be used at neo Nazi convention.

Being a neoNazi is not a protected class, so no discrimination lawsuit could arise. But this is typically what the crux of the matter actually is. Homosexuals are protected by law in some jurisdictions, and some people have a huge problem with this. Just be honest and say it out loud and proud.

 

[Arcangl86]

No you said it was against CO law for Jack Phillips to deny the cake. I pointed out at the time CO only recognized traditional marriage.

It does't matter if CO contracted same sex marriages or not, it still was illegal to discriminate on basis of sexual orientation.

 

[redleghunter]

The dude sold wedding cakes as a normal course of his business, sorry.

No they were contracted out given the high price of the item. So instead of a gay man coming in and buying a birthday cake for a birthday, the couple had to sit down explain what they wanted.

 

[redleghunter]

Because the contract does not have a clause saying "In addition to baking a cake and giving it to you in exchange for money, I fully endorse everything that happens within thirty feet of my cake until it is consumed, especially the gay stuff."

Yet the cake is actually a wedding cake designed by Jack Phillips.

 

[redleghunter]

Being a neoNazi is not a protected class, so no discrimination lawsuit could arise. But this is typically what the crux of the matter actually is. Homosexuals are protected by law in some jurisdictions, and some people have a huge problem with this. Just be honest and say it out loud and proud.

And the free exercise of one's religion is a big deal too and in our Constitution. The 'free' part means no one gets to tell others what to believe or what to violate within their faith. In the case of marriage which is a direct teaching from Christ.

Once again, it's not a hobby or cool thing to do on Sunday for some of us.