One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[liberty of conscience]

When I read Lev 23, the sabbaths in the passage are explicitly attached to specific days of the month ...

Indeed, except for Leviticus 23:3

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Nothing about moons, months, seasons, etc. It says, "the seventh day" (definite article). Not seventh day of the month, or the seventh day of the season, of the seventh day of the year, etc. It refers directly back to Exodus 20:8-11, even Genesis 2:1-3.

This is further denoted in Leviticus 23:38

Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've been told the sabbath is optional, and just a day of rest from work. I took his word by faith. Then I hear different perspectives I can't figure out which one is true. The Bible doesn't seem to support Sabbath-keeping in the new covenant from when I read.

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it? I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship there are literally no churches around me that even worship on the 7th day. And if its not even a big deal, I have no problem worshipping on Sunday.

Men will tempt you / everyone/ every day.

Instead of following men,

follow Jesus. He States That His Sheep Know His Voice and Follow Him

- We Will Not Follow Another.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes but the early church met daily, not just once a week.

Perhaps Ekklesia today, like the Ekklesia in the first century, do also. Seek Yahweh and His Kingdom, and as He Says in His Word, Seek those who are faithful wherever you are or go.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Indeed, except for Leviticus 23:3

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Nothing about moons, months, seasons, etc. It says, "the seventh day" (definite article). Not seventh day of the month, or the seventh day of the season, of the seventh day of the year, etc. It refers directly back to Exodus 20:8-11, even Genesis 2:1-3.

This is further denoted in Leviticus 23:38

Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

You still haven't dealt with the fact that the Sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month. And you haven't explained holy convocations in Lev 23 as anything other than the feasts it discusses.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You still haven't dealt with the fact that the Sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month. And you haven't explained holy convocations in Lev 23 as anything other than the feasts it discusses.

So ? It was dealt with already, easily, in the past.

 

[liberty of conscience]

You still haven't dealt with the fact that the Sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month.

Yes I did, and being in denial doesn't help you. Here it is again,

Indeed, except for Leviticus 23:3

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Nothing about moons, months, seasons, etc. It says, "the seventh day" (definite article). Not seventh day of the month, or the seventh day of the season, of the seventh day of the year, etc. It refers directly back to Exodus 20:8-11, even Genesis 2:1-3.

This is further denoted in Leviticus 23:38

Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

There is a clear delineation between vs 3 and vs 4.

[1] Vs 3, deals with the 7th day, and the other 6 days of the week. and God's rest (sabbath). Nothing about months, moons, seasons, years, sacrifices, offerings, etc.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

[2] Vs 4, deals with the months, seasons, years, and has offerings, sacrifices, etc.

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

It even delineates between:

[1] God's rest and no work, and

[2] their resting and no servile work.

Leviticus 23 is not in a vacuum, but is in the context of Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, 31:12-18; Deuteronomy 5:12-15.

The passover and unleavened bread in Leviticus 23, even was mentioned in Exodus 12:

Exo_12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

It is mentioned again in Numbers 28, which also delineates between the 7th day the sabbath of the Lord and all other items when speaking of the required sacrifices per day:

[1] Numbers 28:9-10, the 7th day the sabbath of the Lord

[2] all the others, such as Passover, etc:

Num_28:18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:

This was shown to you on several occasions now. Simply denying it will not help you.

. And you haven't explained holy convocations in Lev 23 as anything other than the feasts it discusses.

They're all holy convocations. That is pretty self explanatory in the text. A "convocation" is simply a gathering together, an "assemblies", and "holy", simply means to be set apart from profane/common:

Isa 4:5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

Num 10:2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.

Neh 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Combine Hebrews 4 with:

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Now, if you will please cease from pretending you are not answered, it would be appreciated, and looked upon with favour.

 

[ace of hearts]

So ? It was dealt with already, easily, in the past.

That can be said about the content of any post.

 

[liberty of conscience]

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

There are some today, acting as these of old:

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

 

[ace of hearts]

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

There are some today, acting as these of old:

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Nothing about meetings of Christians.

 

[liberty of conscience]

Nothing about meetings of Christians.

It is a fulfilment of Isaiah 56:1-8; John 10:16.

What does the scripture call those who believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

What day did they come to believe on?

What did Paul call them to in repentance, where is Paul quoting from?

Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[BobRyan]

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

There are some today, acting as these of old:

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Nothing about meetings of Christians.

On the contrary it was those who were accepting the Christian Gospel - preached by Paul - that asked for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath".

Bible details matter.

 

[ace of hearts]

It is a fulfilment of Isaiah 56:1-8; John 10:16.

What does the scripture call those who believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

What day did they come to believe on?

What did Paul call them to in repentance, where is Paul quoting from?

Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Your response proves my point that the meeting wasn't a meeting of Christians. It was a place and meeting where Paul evangelized.

 

[ace of hearts]

On the contrary it was those who were accepting the Christian Gospel - preached by Paul - that asked for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath".

Bible details matter.

They accepted nothing until after Paul preached the Gospel to them. The purpose and assembly wasn't for Christians. It was an assembly ordered by Jews who weren't Christians. So yes details matter.

 

[liberty of conscience]

Your response proves my point that the meeting wasn't a meeting of Christians. It was a place and meeting where Paul evangelized.

Which, as stated then became a "meeting" of Christians, as per:

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Please notice that the text nowhere states that they stopped keeping the 7th day the sabbath of the Lord, or that they all suddenly got up and said, 'Hey, wait, let's do this tomorrow (first day, sunday)". The scripture says:

Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Thus they continued to meet on sabbath as the scripture Isaiah 56:1-8, declared would be the case. Acts 15, proves this to be case as well:

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

For Jews and Gentiles, in fulfillment of Isaiah 56:1-8, took hold of God and repented, as was shown in Acts 4:24, 14:15-16, 17:30; Exodus 20:11.

You seem to be not acknowledging Isaiah 56:1-8, John 10:16, and Acts in fulfillment, and my question to you is, Why?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Yes I did, and being in denial doesn't help you. Here it is again,



There is a clear delineation between vs 3 and vs 4.

[1] Vs 3, deals with the 7th day, and the other 6 days of the week. and God's rest (sabbath). Nothing about months, moons, seasons, years, sacrifices, offerings, etc.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

[2] Vs 4, deals with the months, seasons, years, and has offerings, sacrifices, etc.

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

It even delineates between:

[1] God's rest and no work, and

[2] their resting and no servile work.

Leviticus 23 is not in a vacuum, but is in the context of Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, 31:12-18; Deuteronomy 5:12-15.

It looks to me like you're ignoring the fact that the sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month and then you remove vs 3 from the context of Lev 23.

In addition, I have no problem thinking that the sabbaths presented in Lev 23 are (a) on specific days of the month and (b) the same as the weekly sabbath. This is a problem you seem to have.

I think the solution you probably have to take is that the sabbaths in Lev 23 are special sabbaths attached to specific feasts and that those sabbaths are separate from the normal weekly sabbath.

They're all holy convocations. That is pretty self explanatory in the text. A "convocation" is simply a gathering together, an "assemblies", and "holy", simply means to be set apart from profane/common:

The convocations in Lev 23 are specific feasts. You're ignoring the entirety of Lev 23 and redirecting from the fact that the convocations in the passage are specific feasts defined in the passage. I know you would like to generalize the convocations to mean or include general worship on the sabbath, but in Lev 23, the holy convocations are specific feasts.

 

[BobRyan]

It looks to me like you're ignoring the fact that the sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month and then you remove vs 3 from the context of Lev 23.

There are annual Sabbaths in Lev 23... they do not occur every week or every month - annual means once a year.

There is one weekly Sabbath -- and that is a reference to Ex 20:8-11 the "7th day is the Sabbath". That is also mentioned in Lev 23.

 

[BobRyan]

I know you would like to generalize the convocations to mean or include general worship on the sabbath, but in Lev 23, the holy convocations are specific feasts.

Lev 23
‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

It is one of the days of holy convocation, sacred assembly even though it is not limited to "yearly"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

 

[liberty of conscience]

It looks to me like you're ignoring the fact that the sabbaths in Lev 23 are on specific days of the month and then you remove vs 3 from the context of Lev 23.

Where have I "ignored" that there are sabbaths that take place on certain days of the 'month' in the year? I specifically showed that delineation at least twice now.

Leviticus 23 is written in sequential order. You cannot take which comes later (vs 4) and apply it backwards into verse 3. Leviticus 23 is rooted in Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15. The "feasts" "in their seasons" are not begun to be listed until vs 5, beginning with "Passover" which was based in the lunar cycle.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:3 has nothing to do with "moon", "moons", "month", "months", "new moon", "new moons", "lesser light", "season", "year", "years", etc. It is very specific. "six days" and "the seventh day" "the sabbath of the LORD" (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:11). It is God's sabbath, His rest.

The days of the week are not associated with the "moon" at all. The "moon" could fall out of the sky (so to speak) and the 7th day would come every seven "days". The "lesser light" (moon) was "made" on Day 4. It does not delineate the timing of the days of the week. The sabbath of the LORD is rooted in God Himself from Day 1. The sabbath commandment encompasses all of the Creation of Genesis 1 & 2, "Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.", not just the "moon". Leviticus 23:3 does not deviate from this in the least.

If you are attempting to associate the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD with 'lunar phases' you are greatly mistaken.

In addition, I have no problem thinking that the sabbaths presented in Lev 23 are (a) on specific days of the month and (b) the same as the weekly sabbath.

That is because you are in error and in disagreement with the plain English reading of the text. You are merely referring to your belief, rather than to what the scripture plainly says.

You seem to believe in the so-called 'lunar sabbath' ideology in regards "7th day", which is completely contradictory to scripture:

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Lev 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.
Lev 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
Lev 23:20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
Lev 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

In a so-called 'lunar-sabbath' (7th day) reckoning, this passage (Leviticus 23:15-22) becomes broken, and has to be "wrested".

This is a problem you seem to have.

The problem is your misunderstanding of the text an that which you expound, not the text itself.

I think the solution you probably have to take is that the sabbaths in Lev 23 are special sabbaths attached to specific feasts and that those sabbaths are separate from the normal weekly sabbath.

Nothing 'special' about the plain reading of the text.

Leviticus 23:3 is delineated by the text itself, and set apart from that which follows vs 4. It is even again re-iterated in vs 38, "besides the sabbaths of the LORD".

The convocations in Lev 23 are specific feasts.

Read:

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

[1] Passover - month 1
[2] Unleavened Bread - month 1
[3] Firstfruits/Wavesheaf - month 1
[4] Pentecost - month 3
[5] Trumpets - month 7
[6] Atonement - month 7
[7] Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering - month 7

Nothing about the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, in vs 3. The feasts as liste from vs 5 onward deal with months, moons, the lunar cyucle, but nothing of the sort in vs 3, at all. You are imagining it there.

You're ignoring the entirety of Lev 23

Not at all as I have demonstrated on numerous occasions now. That you simply 'deny' this, and place your own aprioi onto the field of discussion, is not evidence against what has been shared with you from the plain text itself on several occasions now.

and redirecting from the fact that the convocations in the passage are specific feasts defined in the passage.

This is only in your present imagination, not in reality as has been posted. Please, read what I have shared, even now. Thank you.

I know you would like to generalize the convocations to mean or include general worship on the sabbath, but in Lev 23, the holy convocations are specific feasts.

The 7th day is a holy convocation, a time of gathering.

The 7th day is a day of rejoicing and time with God and family.

Who said otherwise?

The point made is that Leviticus 23:3, the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD is not associated with lunar phases, moons, etc at all.

 

[ace of hearts]

Which, as stated then became a "meeting" of Christians, as per:

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

No this didn't become a meeting of Christians. The Jewish non Christian rulers of the synagogue remained in charge. It simply was the custom to meet in the synagogue, nothing else.

Please notice that the text nowhere states that they stopped keeping the 7th day the sabbath of the Lord, or that they all suddenly got up and said, 'Hey, wait, let's do this tomorrow (first day, sunday)". The scripture says:

Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Notice it doesn't say Christians in any sense of the word.

Thus they continued to meet on sabbath as the scripture Isaiah 56:1-8, declared would be the case. Acts 15, proves this to be case as well:

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

For Jews and Gentiles, in fulfillment of Isaiah 56:1-8, took hold of God and repented, as was shown in Acts 4:24, 14:15-16, 17:30; Exodus 20:11.

No.

You seem to be not acknowledging Isaiah 56:1-8, John 10:16, and Acts in fulfillment, and my question to you is, Why?

I've quoted and given my commentary on John 10:16. Isa 56:1-8 is for only those placing themselves under the covenant made with their fathers upon departure from Egypt. Furthermore gentiles who joined that covenant aren't gentiles any longer.

 

[ace of hearts]

There are annual Sabbaths in Lev 23... they do not occur every week or every month - annual means once a year.

There is one weekly Sabbath -- and that is a reference to Ex 20:8-11 the "7th day is the Sabbath". That is also mentioned in Lev 23.

Verse 3 doesn't allow this view.