Canadian SC: Christian law school can't forbid students from gay sex

[JackRT]

Fortunately the Angel was good enough to see the horrible position a bunch of Homosexual bullies put the daughters father in, and he stepped in.

What makes you say that the bullies were homosexual and not heterosexuals seeking to humiliate the strangers? After all just ~3% of the population are homosexually inclined.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

How about opening your eyes to what is and has been popularized and praised and what has been demonized and ridiculed throughout the years.

...but my comments are pertaining to force. "popularization and praise" and "demonizing and ridicule" aren't equivalent to the government codifying and showing favoritism to a specific set of religious values.

And, while we're at it, let's take a small step back and look at the particular words you used. "Demonize and ridicule".
A) There's been a lot more of that from evangelical conservatives aimed at LGBT than going in the other direction. Both historically, and it in present times. That's just an irrefutable fact.
B) Rejecting a particular part of a religious code's mandates, in the context of having state & federal laws enforce those mandates on everyone else, isn't "demonizing the entire religion". If a certain portion of a religious group was insisting that their personal beliefs be shown favoritism above all others, then that group does deserve criticism.

A staunch position of "I want to do what makes me happy as long as I don't harm anyone else...and how dare you try to stop me" and "I have this set of beliefs that I want forced on a bunch of strangers, and I expect nothing less than to have the highest authority in the land reinforce those beliefs with the rule of law" aren't coming from the same place, nor are they ideological equivalents to one another.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Your premise that that such is not harming anyone else is at best debatable, and actually wrong, and what you mean is you want to disallow required assent to any any moral codes that believes do not negatively affect anyone else.

And or you disagree with any group making rules for that group, from glee clubs to sports teams.

And besides the spiritual costs, what if the consensual practice of taking part in the Lord's supper was shown to be responsible (2016) for 83% of HIV cases among men (despite only representing approximately 4% of the male population).

After about 40 years of trying to tame the beast.

Couple flaws with what you're saying here.

The old "higher rates of HIV is proof that it's bad" shtick is flawed...because if we're going to operate on the assumption that HIV pervasiveness is an indicator of which lifestyle is preferable, then lesbian couples, by your logic, are the most ideal scenario since they have an HIV rate that's almost non-existent.

...I'll ask you, do you want to continue using that as an example or would you care to retract that portion of your post and concede that it's an invalid line of logic??? Your choice. That's either a logical fallacy, or lesbianism is ideal. Which is it?

 

[TLK Valentine]

sigh. If you are going to continue to impugn Christian faith then try to understand that Scripture must be the definitive source for what a Christian is and for what faith is, and actually obtain some education by it, and not by reading a few verses in isolation.

Which word simply does not teach that merely believing that Christ the Son of God is real makes one a Christian anymore then my belief in the devil being real makes me a Satanist. Perhaps you may have even read Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:19,20)

Instead of mere intellectual acknowledgment of facts being Biblical saving faith, in Scripture this is abundantly described as that which effects obedience, for in reality, everything you choose to do is a result of what you truly believe, even if only at the moment. Thus faith is equated with obedience by the Spirit.

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:17-18)

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:12-14)

For while it is faith that is counted for righteousness, faith is evidenced by works, and are the credentials of a Christian, including repentance when convicted in heart of not obeying God.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (Hebrews 6:9-10)

Thus while affirming the salvation of those who believe, the same are told that,

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:5)

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. (1 Timothy 5:8)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:12)

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:38-39)

if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)

Now its time for some sleep.

And here is an interesting definition -- A Christian is a Christian not by what they know, but by the effect that knowledge has on them.

Alas, I have to disagree with your interpretation of these scriptures. A Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but cannot/will not/does not act on that knowledge is a poor Christian, but a Christian nonetheless.

Similarly, a person who gets their annual flu shot, but still catches the flu, cannot be said to have never received a vaccination, can they?

 

[TLK Valentine]

And preferring two virgin women over hairy men certainly indicates they were not heteros, and the Holy Spirit adds in Jude 1:7 that they went after strange flesh.

You're assuming that the mob's motivation was sexual desire, and not to show the strangers in town who's in charge...

 

[Kenny'sID]

What makes you say that the bullies were homosexual and not heterosexuals seeking to humiliate the strangers? After all just ~3% of the population are homosexually inclined.

Because they were men and wanted to take men by force, and they wanted nothing to do with women? that's how I define homosexual...you?

So you are saying it is a fact that on average, only 3% of Sodom were homosexual? You are actually claiming that stat has held true throughout time?

This just keeps getting more bizarre.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And that reinforces Jacks end of this how exactly?

Yep, I've seen more "truth" on this thread than I can possibly stand....enough already

Well, if you've had your fill of truth, there are plenty of places you can retreat to... The White House is hiring...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, if you've had your fill of truth,

Whoosh!

Let me cut you off right there, I've had my feel of what you called truth...huge difference.

 

[hedrick]

Because they were men and wanted to take men by force, and they wanted nothing to do with women? that's how I define homosexual...you?

It's hard to know their motivations, but it doesn't seem to have been sexual. As you know, rape is sometimes more about domination than sex.

"They said, “Get out of the way!” And they continued, “Does this immigrant want to judge us? Now we will hurt you more than we will hurt them.” They pushed Lot back and came close to breaking down the door." (Gen 19:9)

This doesn't look like sexual desire to me. This was basically bullying. My guess: there's no satisfaction in bullying a woman; she's already subservient.

A lot depends upon how much you assume the townspeople knew about the angels. Did they assume they were just random guests, or did they know they had come to judge the town? In 19:9 they're after Lot because they think he's judging them. Perhaps that was the issue with the angels in the first place.

 

[Kenny'sID]

This doesn't look like sexual desire to me.

Still looks like Homosexual bullies to me, and dangerous ones at that.

Had I been one of the Angels, they would not have been so lucky, but I guess in the end, they weren't.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Perhaps because there's so much focus on it in the world.
An eye sore.
Holy matrimony vs unholy matrimony.
But they don't promote it or demand others to embrace it.

A unmarried women knocked up. A married person cheating on their spouse. Christians know they are doing these sins. They even had to fight in the past. So these people didn't go to jail or weren't treated horrible. So they got their rights. It's no different than a gay person getting married or having sex. People know they are sinning ,but the gay thing is the big deal. I personally don't care what they do in religious schools. Personally if Christians weren't constantly getting caught sinning . Then I wouldn't talk about it. Also I thought the said, it was okay for un married heterosexual to have sex in their private time. While going to this school.

 

[TLK Valentine]

A unmarried women knocked up. A married person cheating on their spouse. Christians know they are doing these sins. They even had to fight in the past. So these people didn't go to jail or weren't treated horrible. So they got their rights. It's no different than a gay person getting married or having sex. People know they are sinning ,but the gay thing is the big deal. I personally don't care what they do in religious schools. Personally if Christians weren't constantly getting caught sinning . Then I wouldn't talk about it. Also I thought the said, it was okay for un married heterosexual to have sex in their private time. While going to this school.

I seem to recall some guy talking about letting he who was without sin cast the first stone... but nobody listens to that guy these days.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I seem to recall some guy talking about letting he who was without sin cast the first stone... but nobody listens to that guy these days.

Then you are suddenly a believer or is this momentary out of convenience?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then you are suddenly a believer or is this momentary out of convenience?

Believer in what?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Believer in what?

Are all Atheists contrary, or is it CF specific?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Are all Atheists contrary, or is it CF specific?

What are you asking if I'm a believer in?

 

[Kenny'sID]

What are you asking if I'm a believer in?

Sorry If your not going to use a little common sense, at least occasionally, your wasting my time and yours.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Sorry If your not going to use a little common sense, at least occasionally, your wasting my time and yours.

Well, I'm going to disregard your attitude (because it's the only way anything is going to be accomplished) and assume you mean "a believer in Jesus."

If you're asking if I believe that Jesus is the Son of God who came to this world to forgive mankind of its sins, the answer is "no."

If you're asking if I believe Jesus was a benevolent moral philosopher whose teachings should be put into practice, then the answer is "yes."

It's surprising (well, not to me personally, but to many people) how often people forget that one can believe the latter without the former -- as well as how many choose to ignore the latter completely because they give lip service to the former.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Couple flaws with what you're saying here.

The old "higher rates of HIV is proof that it's bad" shtick is flawed...because if we're going to operate on the assumption that HIV pervasiveness is an indicator of which lifestyle is preferable, then lesbian couples, by your logic, are the most ideal scenario since they have an HIV rate that's almost non-existent.

...I'll ask you, do you want to continue using that as an example or would you care to retract that portion of your post and concede that it's an invalid line of logic??? Your choice. That's either a logical fallacy, or lesbianism is ideal. Which is it?

Rather, it is your argument that is fallacious, a false dilemma, based on a false premise, for it presumes my argument is restricted to MSM or HIV simply because that is the only one of many aspects that I mentioned as regards defining negative consequences. I did not mention lesbians, but since you brought that up, studies also have for a long time testified to deleterious conditions among them, as compared to a Scripturally moral lifestyle, which is the standard.

• 42% of gay men; 43% of lesbians; 49% of bisexual men and women planned or actually and deliberately engaged in self-harm, and showed high levels of psychiatric morbidity. Homosexual men and bisexual men were more likely than heterosexual men to be diagnosed with at least one of five mental health disorders and 20% of gay-bisexual men had two or more disorders. 24% of the lesbian-bisexual women had two or more mental disorders in the previous year. The British Journal Of Psychiatry. 2004; 185: 479-485. Journal Of Consulting And Clinical Psychology, (Vol. 71, No. 1, 53-61). http://www.narth.com/docs/britjournal.html
  
  
• The prevalence of bacterial vaginosis (BV) among lesbians has been reported to be 18 to 36% (Berger et al., 1995; Edwards and Thin, 1990; Marrazzo et al., 1996a, b), higher than the 16% prevalence seen in 10,397 pregnant women evaluated in the Vaginal Infections in Pregnancy study (Hillier et al., 1995). A study of 101 lesbians, none of whom had had sexual relations with men during the preceding year, found BV prevalence to be 29%. A study conducted in a London genitourinary medicine clinic compared 241 lesbians and 241 matched heterosexual controls and found higher rates of BV in lesbians. Lesbian Health Status and Health Risks - Lesbian Health - NCBI Bookshelf
  
  
• BV is more common in lesbian and bisexual women than in other women, and the condition frequently persists after treatment. Volume 169 Issue 12 | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians
  
  
• Lesbians appear to be at greater risk for alcohol abuse than are heterosexual women (Cassidy and Hughes, 1997; Eliason, 1996; Haas, 1994; O'Hanlan, 1995; Rosser, 1993)
  
  Lesbian teens are nearly five times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexual girls, according to a 2003 survey presented at a national conference of public health experts in Vancouver Monday. B.C.-based McCreary Centre Society survey found 38 per cent of lesbian girls and 30.4 per cent of bisexual girls said they had attempted suicide in the previous year, compared with 8.2 per cent of heterosexual girls. McCreary Centre Society http://www2.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=b433f217-3947-49c3-b045-9c03ce3de848&k=1

Of course, all fornicator groups suffer high rates of STDs, in contrast to a Scripturally moral lifestyle, and which is my premise, and which is sound.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, I'm going to disregard your attitude (because it's the only way anything is going to be accomplished) and assume you mean "a believer in Jesus."

No snarky comment this time, and yes, that's what I meant.

It's surprising (well, not to me personally, but to many people) how often people forget that one can believe the latter without the former -- as well as how many choose to ignore the latter completely because they give lip service to the former.

I didn't forget, the very reason I ask questions.

The problem I have with your post is something I've seen happen here all too often, and very often on this subject. Most here have seen the arguments and how people go into complete denial when it comes to defending homosexuality, something that is clearly hated by God, a pet peeve, so to speak, and when they get backed into a corner with the truth, they then play the "Jesus is love, you aren't being loving, you're just mean, and you should feel guilty for treating us/them like that, it's not the Christian way" card. And they often twist scripture to make that point, like here:

I seem to recall some guy talking about letting he who was without sin cast the first stone... but nobody listens to that guy these days.

OF course we listen, that's what were doing here, making clear Gods word and not letting people get away with their twists and turns of the gospel. No one has thrown a single stone/implemented punishment. Yes, what you said there will sound very pretty to the Homosexual proponent but in the end, are you really acting out of love, are you really helping anyone? Or are you doing as many Atheists tend to and using the situation to style and execute another "Christians are bad" bomb....and at someone else's expense, a very costly expense at that.

See, in reality, for those who believe the whole bible, what we are doing is absolutely out of love. It may not help but the heavy handed way some use is brought on by this almost scary denial so we try to shake them out of their delusion of what's biblical and what's not. Sometimes it takes more than lovey dovey pretty words to make a point, especially in cases like this.

Then on top of that we have to contend with these posts that pretend to bring an important good and kind message to us when in the end they are anything but that.

It's a kin to saying, your dad is so mean, go ahead and play with the Pellet gun without supervision. And we all know how that goes, it's all about being PC, nice, friendly, tolerant and "loving" until someone loses an eye, and worse yet, when some here have obviously already lost their sight.

We also stand firm so those undecided that are reading this don't walk away with an idea that is very much against Gods will. Again, that is if one believes the whole bible.

So shoot the messenger/keep on doing whatever you like here as far as I'm concerned anyway, but some of us will never feel guilty for doing the best we can to be sure the truth is at least part of these conversations..