Did God predestine the Fall?

[dad]

Dude you really need to read Romans.

You need to understand what you read.

 

[dad]

Please read Romans 6 before making such comments.

Just looked at it again Nothing in there that remotely supports your bizzaro pre destination that I can see. Really.

 

[dad]

You won’t admit that man doesn’t deserve salvation. That’s strange.

He doesn't deserve salvation.

 

[dad]

I know you don’t.

Ha

 

[dad]

Yes™

?? Why spam a bunch of verses about the fall and fallen man?? Of course man is a mess, that's why Jesus died. The issue is whether we are predestined to heaven and hell or whether we chose to accept His gift or not.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

?? Why spam a bunch of verses about the fall and fallen man?? Of course man is a mess, that's why Jesus died. The issue is whether we are predestined to heaven and hell or whether we chose to accept His gift or not.

yeah....ok pops..

 

[dad]

I remember you, a lot of similar arguments in the Origins debate. What we choose is insignificant to God choosing us. What did you choose when you were saved exactly; revelation, repentance, justification, sanctification, the new nature that results in new birth, all come from God. God predestined that all who would be righteous would be the righteousness of God in Christ, there was never a plan B. I'm hearing a lot about what you do, the freedom of will, the choice the individual makes, but nothing about God's foreknowledge and predestination. That's not how Paul described salvation, why would we?

The problem is, that God knowing we would choose Him does not mean He made us do it. He provided a way, and man has to choose. Yes, it is Jesus and His righteousness that saves us, but yes, that is after we decide to love Him/choose/come to Him..

 

[dad]

yeah....ok pops..

Ok is right.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, totally escaping my thoughts. People are free, not locked in.

Can you chose to believe something that you think is a lie?

 

[Hammster]

He doesn't deserve salvation.

What does man deserve?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The freedom to chose it not mundane.

Freedom to choose is altogether different than the assumption of libertarian free will. I'd quote from WCF and LBCF but I see how futile it is.

Being locked into some bizzaro world pre destined situation where billions were doomed to hell before they were born is not mundane but monstrous.

The real munsters know the God of the Bible but reject Him and suppress what they know even while forming a mental idol suitable to their liking and teach others to worship their mental idol. Man is so inescapably religious in nature...it is how God created us to be.

 

[mark kennedy]

The problem is, that God knowing we would choose Him does not mean He made us do it. He provided a way, and man has to choose. Yes, it is Jesus and His righteousness that saves us, but yes, that is after we decide to love Him/choose/come to Him..

What makes you think Calvinists reject that man has free will, we don't deny that good works follow salvation either. The event in the persons life is justification, the time of decision, your actual conversion when you are born again, receive the Holy Spirit is a once and for all act of God. It's not that free will and good works don't exist, they are just corrupted beyond repair, in short they are irrelevant. Anything that you do, in thought, word or deed involved in your salvation is a work of God. Paul never emphases that you chose Christ, but that the believer is chose by God. Even your faith is a gift of God, by grace you are saved apart from works. Surly you remember that, the gospel.

 

[miknik5]

Faith the size of a mustard seed if it is directed in the Truth of Christ His Word and faith in THE GOSPEL is faith.
I’m not sure if some are misunderstanding each other

 

[redleghunter]

The freedom to chose it not mundane. Being locked into some bizzaro world pre destined situation where billions were doomed to hell before they were born is not mundane but monstrous.

Which Netflix series did you get that from

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, totally escaping my thoughts. People are free, not locked in.

Do you believe we are children of wrath under the curse before our conversion?

 

[redleghunter]

You need to understand what you read.

The only rebuttal you gave is “no it does not say that” when in fact Paul is clear we are either in bondage to sin or bondage to righteousness. And we can only be freed of our sin and wrath against us by and through the righteousness of Christ Jesus.

It’s very clear.

 

[redleghunter]

Just looked at it again Nothing in there that remotely supports your bizzaro pre destination that I can see. Really.

It was referencing the bondage of our will.

 

[redleghunter]

The issue is whether we are predestined to heaven and hell or whether we chose to accept His gift or not.

Neither is mutually exclusive.

 

[redleghunter]

The problem is, that God knowing we would choose Him does not mean He made us do it. He provided a way, and man has to choose. Yes, it is Jesus and His righteousness that saves us, but yes, that is after we decide to love Him/choose/come to Him..

Ephesians 2 Paul tells us we are children of wrath and dead in our sins until God makes us alive in Christ Jesus.

“Wake up, O sleeper,

rise up from the dead,

and Christ will shine on you.”

 

[mark kennedy]

The problem is, that God knowing we would choose Him does not mean He made us do it. He provided a way, and man has to choose. Yes, it is Jesus and His righteousness that saves us, but yes, that is after we decide to love Him/choose/come to Him..

You mean after God predestined it before the foundation of the world, Christ died for the ungodly and revealed your sinfulness and bringing you under the conviction of sin, then revealed the righteousness of God in Christ. Then you believe, that's your whole message, your lesson, man decides and everything depends on that. What about what God did and does? I would think that would rate a passing remark that doesn't have to be dragged out of you.