Lazarus Short
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Wait, wait, wait! My Bad!! It is First Corinthians, chapter 15, not 5.
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Many who have delved into biblical evidence for damnation, annihilation, and reconciliation, have found evidence for all three. And you people choose the worst one to believe in. Billions of people will be tortured for hundreds of trillions of years with no end by a "loving" God. Ironically, reconciliation was taught by much of the early Christian church. About the 5th century was when damnation made its way into the mainstream and permeated biblical translations. Bear in mind your English translations were scribed by those with damnation heavily in mind. What did the original Greek say?
Not to inject logic into an illogical debate about an illogical concept such as eternal hellfire, but let's put this into perspective. Let's say us humans were somehow given the power to sentence people to eternal torture for all the things you claim one may be sentenced to eternal torture for. Not being a Christian at time of death, for instance. So all Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, and pagans, we sent to be tortured for trillions upon trillions of years at time of death. What would the world think?
It would be an international humanitarian crisis 10,000x worse than any genocide in history. It would dwarf the holocaust, and anything the angel of death Josef Mengele could have dreamed of doing himself. The evil of such an act is simply immeasurable if done by us, and you tell me a loving God would outdo history's worst genocides in magnitude of suffering? There would be a world-ending war, with nuclear weapons dropped and billions of lives destroyed. The mayhem and destruction would be catastrophic. And you tell me God, of infinite love, would do this to a soul?
And you wonder why people persecute us. Jeez. Look at the ideas you're pushing onto the world. If that's what you want to preach, fine. "Believe what I believe or be tortured for eternity. God loves you! He doesn't WANT to torture you forever, but He just may have to!"
Nice message. Very moving. I'll go ahead and donate some of my hard earned $$$ to the Christian Universalist Association just to spite you. Have a nice day.
If the shoe fits, wear it.Why not quote the WHOLE chapter? All I see above is cherry-picking.
Many who have delved into biblical evidence for damnation, annihilation, and reconciliation, have found evidence for all three. And you people choose the worst one to believe in. Billions of people will be tortured for hundreds of trillions of years with no end by a "loving" God. Ironically, reconciliation was taught by much of the early Christian church. About the 5th century was when damnation made its way into the mainstream and permeated biblical translations. Bear in mind your English translations were scribed by those with damnation heavily in mind. What did the original Greek say?
Not to inject logic into an illogical debate about an illogical concept such as eternal hellfire, but let's put this into perspective. Let's say us humans were somehow given the power to sentence people to eternal torture for all the things you claim one may be sentenced to eternal torture for. Not being a Christian at time of death, for instance. So all Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, and pagans, we sent to be tortured for trillions upon trillions of years at time of death. What would the world think?
It would be an international humanitarian crisis 10,000x worse than any genocide in history. It would dwarf the holocaust, and anything the angel of death Josef Mengele could have dreamed of doing himself. The evil of such an act is simply immeasurable if done by us, and you tell me a loving God would outdo history's worst genocides in magnitude of suffering? There would be a world-ending war, with nuclear weapons dropped and billions of lives destroyed. The mayhem and destruction would be catastrophic. And you tell me God, of infinite love, would do this to a soul?
And you wonder why people persecute us. Jeez. Look at the ideas you're pushing onto the world. If that's what you want to preach, fine. "Believe what I believe or be tortured for eternity. God loves you! He doesn't WANT to torture you forever, but He just may have to!"
Nice message. Very moving. I'll go ahead and donate some of my hard earned $$$ to the Christian Universalist Association just to spite you. Have a nice day.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Deuteronomy 17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Wrong, it does say "2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."That doesn't say they SHALL (future tense) never be able to know the truth.
Compare 1 Tim.2:4, Love Omnipotent desires/wills ALL come to the knowledge of the truth. Why say that if there are some who shall never attain to the truth?
Why will/desire something that will not happen, that is impossible for even Love Omnipotent to correct? Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6). Conclusion: All will be saved
1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved
AgreedGod's Word teaches the wages of sin is death for all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. There is no salvation to those who reject the Gospel and continue in sin.
1 Timothy 4:10Wrong, it does say "2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Agreed
"and Pharaoh called the wise men and the magicians; and Janis and Jambres, the magicians of the Egyptians, did so by the enchantments of their divinations.'' Numenius; the philosopher, speaks of Jannes and Jambres as Egyptian scribes, and famous for their skill in the magic art; and who opposed themselves to Moses when the Jews were driven out of Egypt [GILL]
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Historically, this verse was written before the establishment of ECT as a church doctrine, but the passage of time has made it look like slam on Universalism. If we look at the fruit of the ECT doctrine, such as the Inquisition, burning of people as a foretaste of hell, and general terror of Christians, we can see what are the doctrines of devils.
Sorry, but attacking me personally does not address the scriptures and your conscience must be cauterized and your instruction of fools is folly.1 Timothy 4:10
It is you who has given into the doctrines of devils and traditions of men.
Sorry, but attacking me personally does not address the scriptures and your conscience must be cauterized and your instruction of fools is folly.
1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
Avoid deceit and read the Bible: 1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in deceit; having their conscience cauterized;
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
Proverbs 16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.
Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Job 30:8 They were children of fools, yea, children of base men: they were viler than the earth.
1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe andHistorically, this verse was written before the establishment of ECT as a church doctrine, but the passage of time has made it look like slam on Universalism. If we look at the fruit of the ECT doctrine, such as the Inquisition, burning of people as a foretaste of hell, and general terror of Christians, we can see what are the doctrines of devils.
I am very moved by your posts. Thank you so much. Would you be at all interested in staying in contact on this forum?
YES.If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?
Wrong, it does say "2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
"2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Wrong, it does say "2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."Do you have a point or just like to post Scriptures without any comment & leave it to others to guess what your point is?