Absolute Predestination

[DeaconDean]

I'm in the middle. All God or all man are extremes. I think God wants fellowship with us, cooperation, not puppets.

I want you to produce here for all to see where I said man is a "puppet".

I wonder if you have even devoted one second to study what "predestination" actually teaches.

A misunderstanding of the biblical topic "predestinated" produces ignorance in James Arminus, and also the Hyper-Calvinist crowd.

Even some from the RCC fail to understand "predestination" sometimes.

Arminians, make predestination based on nothing but what man will or will not do. (James Arminus)

On the other hand, Hyper-Calvinists represent the extreme on the other side. (On is born saved)

The RCC, sometimes teaches the doctrine that Calvinist predestination makes man a robot/puppet in that everything he does, is according to a "pre-set" plan. If a man comes to a fork in the road, and chooses to go left, God "predestined" that choice.

According to the scripture, and this has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism. According to scripture, the saved are "predestinated to be conformed to the image of the Son" and because of that, we are adopted, and have an inheritance. (cf. Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:5,11)

That's all!

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Dave L]

Does it also overcome negligence on our part in not keeping His commandments?

If you are born again, you will hate sin and cherish holiness.

 

[Dave L]

So it is up to us to bring forth what God ordains, correct?

He causes us to will and do what he wants.

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

 

[DeaconDean]

Funny
You've just provided a fairly good description of synergeia with these here words of yours. So perhaps you're not as much of a monergist as you thought. Bravo, our dear Tuco!

Like I said, I in no way "Co-operated" with God to bring about my salvation as you believe.

If you want to make my "confession" that I needed a Savior as "work" I did to "co-operate with God, then that is your opinion.

The Holy Spirit joins in when we pray in the manner you just described above, even enabling us by grace to pray in that way, and so prayer such as this is a most powerful vehicle for the reception of Divine grace and knowledge of God, which is Eternal Life (John 17:3).

In the garden of Eden, before Adam (the "living soul") became dead in sin, and while he still resided in Communion with God by God's grace, by what means did He decide to, and succeed in eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Funny, scripture says we don't know what to pray for:

""Likewise the spirit also helpeth our infirmities; for we know not what we should pray for as we ought." -Rom. 8:26

Not to mention that prior to regeneration, you want us to believe that an unsaved person knows exactly what to pray for and when?

Haha, your funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[EmSw]

If you are born again, you will hate sin and cherish holiness.

It's not what one thinks in his mind, but rather, what actions he takes. Is it a sin to not keep His commandments?

 

[EmSw]

He causes us to will and do what he wants.

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

There's that word 'cause' again. Did ordain yo to will and do His good pleasure? How do you separate 'cause' and 'ordain'? You use them inclusively.

 

[Dave L]

There's that word 'cause' again. Did ordain yo to will and do His good pleasure? How do you separate 'cause' and 'ordain'? You use them inclusively.

Create = cause. Who ever created anything but God?

 

[Dave L]

It's not what one thinks in his mind, but rather, what actions he takes. Is it a sin to not keep His commandments?

If you are born again you fulfill the law by keeping the Two Great Commandments in love for God and people.

 

[EmSw]

Create = cause. Who ever created anything but God?

So, you do believe God causes you to do evil.

 

[EmSw]

If you are born again you fulfill the law by keeping the Two Great Commandments in love for God and people.

So Dave, you do believe people CAN keep the commandments. I have heard so much from others they can't keep them.

 

[DeaconDean]

In the garden of Eden, before Adam (the "living soul") became dead in sin, and while he still resided in Communion with God by God's grace, by what means did He decide to, and succeed in eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

I know you won't accept it, but here is what I know.

"In any treatise that proposes to deal with the human will, its nature and functions, respect should be had to the will in three different men, namely, unfallen Adam, the sinner, and the Lord Jesus Christ. In unfallen Adam the will was free, free in both directions, free toward good and free toward evil. Adam was created in a state of innocency, but not in a state of holiness, as is so often assumed and asserted. Adam’s will was therefore in a condition of moral equipoise: that is to say, in Adam there was no constraining bias in him toward either good or evil, and as such, Adam differed radically from all his descendants, as well as from “the Man Christ Jesus.” But with the sinner it is far otherwise. The sinner is born with a will that is not in a condition of moral equipoise, because in him there is a heart that is “deceitful above all things and desperately wicked”, and this gives him a bias toward evil. So, too, with the Lord Jesus it was far otherwise: He also differed radically from unfallen Adam. The Lord Jesus Christ could not sin because he was “the Holy One of God.” Before he was born into this world it was said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” Luke 1:35. Speaking reverently then, we say, that the will of the Son of Man was not in a condition of moral equipoise, that is, capable of turning toward either good or evil. The will of the Lord Jesus was biased toward that which is good because, side by side with his sinless, holy, perfect humanity, was his eternal Deity. Now in contradistinction from the will of the Lord Jesus which was biased toward good, and Adam’s will which, before his fall, was in a condition of moral equipoise — capable of turning toward either good or evil — the sinner’s will is biased toward evil, and therefore is free in one direction only, namely, in the direction of evil. The sinner’s will is enslaved because it is in bondage to and is the servant of a depraved heart."

The Sovereignty Of God, Arthur W. Pink, Chapter 7, God's Sovereignty and the Human Will

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Dave L]

So Dave, you do believe people CAN keep the commandments. I have heard so much from others they can't keep them.

Al Capone could keep the ten commandments for all the the wrong reasons.

 

[Dave L]

So, you do believe God causes you to do evil.

Why pray "deliver us from temptation" if not?

 

[EmSw]

Al Capone could keep the ten commandments for all the the wrong reasons.

Do you think if Capone could keep them, all Christians can keep them?

 

[EmSw]

Why pray "deliver us from temptation" if not?

I'm a little confused here. God causes you to do evil, and then admonishes you to pray that He doesn't cause you to do evil.

 

[Dave L]

Do you think if Capone could keep them, all Christians can keep them?

Yes, those who are born again live according to the Two Great Commandments.
“Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:10)

 

[Dave L]

I'm a little confused here. God causes you to do evil, and then admonishes you to pray that He doesn't cause you to do evil.

We keep from doing evil through his power accessed through prayer.

 

[EmSw]

We keep from doing evil through his power accessed through prayer.

But I read this from James -

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

[Dave L]

But I read this from James -

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But God can lead you into the devil's temptation.

 

[EmSw]

But God can lead you into the devil's temptation.

I thought the prayer was 'lead us not into temptation'.