WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[ViaCrucis]

Quick question before I enter back into the fray:

Which of the 10 Commandments is it that Jesus tells us is the Greatest Commandment? Yes, it is a trick question, because according to Jesus the Greatest Commandment isn't any of the 10. Instead Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18. These two commandments are, according to Jesus, the greatest commandments. Are these commandments God's Eternal Law, or are these merely the Law of Moses?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[prodromos]

So in your view you can continue in a life of known unrepentant sin and still make it to heaven?

Not what he said at all.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Quick question before I enter back into the fray:

Which of the 10 Commandments is it that Jesus tells us is the Greatest Commandment? Yes, it is a trick question, because according to Jesus the Greatest Commandment isn't any of the 10. Instead Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18. These two commandments are, according to Jesus, the greatest commandments. Are these commandments God's Eternal Law, or are these merely the Law of Moses?

-CryptoLutheran

Good question let's look at the scriptures...

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer...

MATTHEW 19:16-21
[16], And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
[20], The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21], Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about James...

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
[12], So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word...........................

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul makes it very clear what he is talking about as well when he is talking about God's Law. It seems like Jesus, James and Paul all agree together what it is they are referring to when talking about God's Law. They are all referring to God's 10 commandments which includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:1-17)

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess, what we are talking about, God’s Law of Love is God's 10 commandments. It is only through Faith that works by love that anyone can walk in the Spirit which produces the fruit of obedience because love is the fulfilling of God’s Law in those that walk by faith and not by sight.

You cannot separate LOVE from OBEDIENCE to God's LAW because God's 10 Commandments are the very expression of what LOVE is.

* If you LOVE your neighbore will you steal from them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you lie to them?
* If you LOVE your neighbore will you kill them?

etc etc...

*If you LOVE God will you have other God's?
*If you LOVE God will you make other God's and bow down to them?
*If you LOVE God will you use his name in vain?

We can go through all the 10 Commandments which are our duty of LOVE to GOD and our fellow man.

This is why JESUS say's; ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [LOVE to GOD and LOVE to MAN] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Not what he said at all.

Really? What did he say?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Really Dave? So in your view you can continue in a life of known unrepentant sin and still make it to heaven? Hmm some are going to be dissappointed come jugment day. *MATTHEW 7:13-23

I believe you're the one who added the word "unrepentant" there. As I don't see it in the post you are quoting from.

Christian teaching recognizes that as sinners the reality of sin is part of this present life lived in this frail, mortal, sin-bound existence. In Lutheranism we recognize this as the Simul, i.e. that the Christian is simul iustus et peccator, at once both saint and sinner. It is what St. Paul speaks of in Romans chapter 7, that the law of sin is present in our mortal members. The old man and the new man exist together, and the Christian life is one lived in struggle against the old man, in faith and hope.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I believe you're the one who added the word "unrepentant" there. As I don't see it in the post you are quoting from.

Christian teaching recognizes that as sinners the reality of sin is part of this present life lived in this frail, mortal, sin-bound existence. In Lutheranism we recognize this as the Simul, i.e. that the Christian is simul iustus et peccator, at once both saint and sinner. It is what St. Paul speaks of in Romans chapter 7, that the law of sin is present in our mortal members. The old man and the new man exist together, and the Christian life is one lived in struggle against the old man, in faith and hope.

-CryptoLutheran

I am not talking about repentant sin. We were discussing HEBREWS 10:26-27 which is talking about sinning willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth. Hence UNREPENTANT SIN.

 

[prodromos]

Really? What did he say?

See ViaCrucis' reply.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess, what we are talking about, God’s Law of Love is God's 10 commandments.

Err. Sorry, wrong answer. Thank you for playing though. As you'll find that Love the love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself isn't among the 10 commandments. Simply finding quotes from the Decalogue along with the command to love doesn't make the Decalogue "God's Law of Love". Because we know what God's commandment concerning love is, and it isn't among the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[prodromos]

I am not talking about repentant sin. We were discussing HEBREWS 10:26-27 which is talking about sinning willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth. Hence UNREPENTANT SIN.

You claim that your particular interpretation of Scripture is "truth". We don't agree.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Err. Sorry, wrong answer. Thank you for playing though. As you'll find that Love the love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself isn't among the 10 commandments. Simply finding quotes from the Decalogue along with the command to love doesn't make the Decalogue "God's Law of Love". Because we know what God's commandment concerning love is, and it isn't among the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

If you disagree please respond to post # 423 click me with all the scriptures in it that disagree with you. You did not read it did you? JESUS says; On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You claim that your particular interpretation of Scripture is "truth". We don't agree.

What is it that you do not agree with?

 

[prodromos]

Err WRONG sorry if you disagree please respond to post # 423 click me with all the scriptures in it that disagree with you. You did not read it did you? JESUS says; On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40

They don't disagree with him. Your incorrect interpretation of the same is what disagrees.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They don't disagree with him. Your incorrect interpretation of the same is what disagrees.

It seems you are not quite sure what you agree or disagree with. What do you not agree with? Is it the scriptures I have posted? If so then please show why in your view they are not correct? Simply saying they are not correct does not make it so because you say so. It is God's WORD not mine.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am not talking about repentant sin. We were discussing HEBREWS 10:26-27 which is talking about sinning willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth. Hence UNREPENTANT SIN.

Read in context. The audience of the anonymous epistle are Jewish converts to Christianity. Hebrews 10 specifically highlights the danger of, on account of pressure and persecution, abandoning Christ and returning to their former ways. The author makes appeal in this way:

"Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near."

It is in this context that the author continues,

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."

"If we go on sinning deliberately" is in the context of what we've seen here already, in the appeal made that we have confidence to enter into the God's presence through the blood of Jesus our great high priest by whose perfect work we have been reconciled with God, and here let us hold fast to our confession without wavering, don't neglect assembling together.

The author continues by reminding them that they joyously gave up so much already, and the author continues in the next chapter by reminding them of the faith of the saints of old--of Abel, Abraham, Isaac, etc. For we are in fact surrounded by the great cloud of witnesses, all the saints who came before, cheering us on to look ahead, toward Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

The author of the Epistle is not speaking merely of the moral failings of sinners, such as we are, but of the abandonment of faith--turning back, away from Christ. In so doing one tramples the Son of God underfoot, curses the Spirit, and has rejected the very forgiveness of sins they have received in the first place--and so they place themselves under judgment. For denying the Savior who covers them and keeps them on the Day of Judgment they must stand naked before the Judgment in their sin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You did not read it did you? JESUS says; On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40

Yes. ALL the Law and the Prophets.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Read in context. The audience of the anonymous epistle are Jewish converts to Christianity.

Hebrews 10 specifically highlights the danger of, on account of pressure and persecution, abandoning Christ and returning to their former ways. The author makes appeal in this way:

"Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near."

It is in this context that the author continues,

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."

"If we go on sinning deliberately" is in the context of what we've seen here already, in the appeal made that we have confidence to enter into the God's presence through the blood of Jesus our great high priest by whose perfect work we have been reconciled with God, and here let us hold fast to our confession without wavering, don't neglect assembling together.

The author continues by reminding them that they joyously gave up so much already, and the author continues in the next chapter by reminding them of the faith of the saints of old--of Abel, Abraham, Isaac, etc. For we are in fact surrounded by the great cloud of witnesses, all the saints who came before, cheering us on to look ahead, toward Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

The author of the Epistle is not speaking merely of the moral failings of sinners, such as we are, but of the abandonment of faith--turning back, away from Christ. In so doing one tramples the Son of God underfoot, curses the Spirit, and has rejected the very forgiveness of sins they have received in the first place--and so they place themselves under judgment. For denying the Savior who covers them and keeps them on the Day of Judgment they must stand naked before the Judgment in their sin.

-CryptoLutheran

Now tell me how is this different to what I have already posted by saying if we sin willfully after we have received a KNOWLEDGE of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin? Once again we are discussing UNREPENTANT SIN.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes. ALL the Law and the Prophets.

-CryptoLutheran

Good you agree this includes the 10 commandments.

 

[prodromos]

It seems you are not quite sure what you agree or disagree with.

Really? Does anyone else participating in this thread get that impression?

What do you not agree with? Is it the scriptures I have posted?

I think I have made it quite clear that it is the erroneous interpretation you have attached to the Scriptures you quote. The Scriptures are entirely agreeable. The baggage you attach, not so.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Now tell me how is this different to what I have already posted by saying if we sin willfully after we have received a KNOWLEDGE of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin?

Well, as worded here, it sounds like you're suggesting that, at the end of the day, our salvation is ultimately performance based. That there is some kind of grading chart.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Really? Does anyone else participating in this thread get that impression?
I think I have made it quite clear that it is the erroneous interpretation you have attached to the Scriptures you quote. The Scriptures are entirely agreeable. The baggage you attach, not so.

No you haven't please go ahead and make your case with the scriptures. If you cannot why do you not believe God's WORD?