WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[LoveGodsWord]

Law written on the heart and mind is not disputable, in other words, you cannot choose whether to follow it or not. Other things are disputable, in regard to you may choose whichever view to take concerning them:
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarrelling over disputable matters.
Romans14:1

Two disputable matters are mentioned in the chapter:

One person considers one day more sacred/holy than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. verse5

I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. verse14

All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20

ROMANS 14 is talking about many things the topic and context however is food connected to days that men esteem over other days not what days God esteems. There is no mentioned of God's 4th commandment in Romans 14 and it is not the topic of conversation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So as long as you perfectly obey the law you are not under the law. OK

If you are knowingly breaking God's LAW you do not know God neither do you have God's Spirit *1 JOHN 2:3-4; ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; GALATIANS 5:16 and need to be born again.

 

[Karola]

ROMANS 14 is talking about many things the topic and context however is food connected to days that men esteem over other days not what days God esteems. There is no mentioned of God's 4th commandment in Romans 14 and it is not the topic of conversation.

Rom 14 plainly states all food is clean for the believer, if it is not, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin(Acts ch15) That is indisputable

 

[Karola]

If you are knowingly breaking God's LAW you do not know God neither do you have God's Spirit *1 JOHN 2:3-4; ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; GALATIANS 5:16

Yes, I know your view:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin.
A helpful word. In the future, so as to clarify your position, you should write: The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal our sin
Hope that helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Rom 14 plainly states all food is clean for the believer, if it is not, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin(Acts ch15) That is indisputable

No it doesn't it talking about food that is common and connected to days. ACTS 15 is talking about CIRCUMCISION as a requirement for salvation. Your reading into the scriptures what is not there.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, I know your view:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin.
A helpful word. In the future, so as to clarify your position, you should write: The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal our sin
Hope that helps

Thanks for your suggestion but I am happy with the scriptures I have provided as they are very clear what they mean *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4.

 

[Karola]

Not it doesn't it talking about food that is common. ACTS 15 is talking about CIRCUMCISION as a requirement for salvation. Your reading into the scriptures what is not there.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, ‘The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.’ verse5

Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. verse20&21

You are not reading what is there!

 

[Karola]

Thanks for your suggestion but I am happy with the scriptures I have provided as they are very clear what they mean *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4.

You have made your position very clear:
Through the law we may or may not become conscious of sin
The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal our sin

For you believe we can unknowingly break the law written in our mind and placed on our hearts

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, ‘The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.’ verse5

Of course CIRCUMCISION is part of the LAW of MOSES is it not? The law of Moses is not the 10 Commandments

Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. verse20&21 You are not reading what is there!

Not at all these were new Gentile believers. What was written was the outcome of the question asked in ACTS 15:1-2 and which was "IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION?" That was the question that was answered. WHY? v21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

They were to continue to learn the Word of God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You have made your position very clear:
Through the law we may or may not become conscious of sin
The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal our sin

For you believe we can unknowingly break the law written in our mind and placed on our hearts

What your saying is not what I am saying. This is your position not mine

 

[Karola]

Of course CIRCUMCISION is part of the LAW of MOSES is it not?

Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. verse20&21

You are not reading what is there!

LGW stated
Not at all these were new Gentile believers. What was written was the outcome of the question asked in ACTS 15:1-2 and which was "IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION?" That was the question that was answered. WHY? v21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

They were to continue to learn the Word of God.[/QUOTE]

You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.’ Acts21:20-25

Years after the council of Jerusalem(Acts 15) the church reiterated they were only asking Gentiles to obey four laws. So it was not just for new converts. And God's laws are not arbitrary that he wants you to follow, you cannot pick and choose which ones you follow and which ones you do not follow, as the leaders of the Christian church would have known.
If it is sin to eat the Levitical unclean foods therefore, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin for their whole lives. Indisputable I am afraid, according to what is written in scripture

 

[Karola]

What your saying is not what I am saying. This is your position not mine

I'm afraid it is your position, you just cannot admit it. For if you believe you can sin unknowingly concerning law written in your mind and placed on your heart, you have to believe:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin
The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal your sin

 

[Dave G.]

Don't get me wrong.

It's funny how you term yourself as considering yourself born again. I would think it would be glaring you in the face with it's reality. Receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit for me was a life changing event and continues to be some 40 years later. The world should know this term, because I came out of a Christian system who did not teach on this, yet it happened to me in spite of them. When I took up real bible study many years, in fact decades later, I then saw in black and white what had happened as described in scripture. It was indeed another revelation to see " hey that's exactly what happened to me". The difference is one is dead the other alive in Christ, the very person of Jesus Christ. People can talk church doctrine, church literature, even preach and be completely dead in Christ Jesus. I was fortunate, I was brought low, to a point with no way to turn and came to Jesus Christ from that vantage point and non other than Him saved me.

The pharisees could talk a great game and Jesus said they were blasphemers, never mind even another church member but rather the worse of the worse who never would come to believe His truths..

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW stated
Not at all these were new Gentile believers. What was written was the outcome of the question asked in ACTS 15:1-2 and which was "IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION?" That was the question that was answered. WHY? v21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

They were to continue to learn the Word of God.

You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.’ Acts21:20-25

Years after the council of Jerusalem(Acts 15) the church reiterated they were only asking Gentiles to obey four laws. So it was not just for new converts. And God's laws are not arbitrary that he wants you to follow, you cannot pick and choose which ones you follow and which ones you do not follow, as the leaders of the Christian church would have known.
If it is sin to eat the Levitical unclean foods therefore, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin for their whole lives. Indisputable I am afraid, according to what is written in scripture

Your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical. The reason for the decision in ACTS 15:20 was because Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day v21. They were to continue to learn from the WORD of GOD.

ROMANS 2:26-29
[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

You do not believe that Gentile believers are free to break God's Commandments do you Karola?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm afraid it is your position, you just cannot admit it. For if you believe you can sin unknowingly concerning law written in your mind and placed on your heart, you have to believe:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin
The law is a mirror that may or may not reveal your sin

Not really ignore the scriptures posted as a help to you.

 

[Karola]

Your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical. The reason for the decision in ACTS 15:20 was because Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day v21. They were to continue to learn from the WORD of GOD.

ROMANS 2:26-29
[26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
[28], For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29], But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.’ Acts 21:20-25

Written years after the council of Jerusalem in Acts ch15

 

[Karola]

Not really ignore the scriptures posted as a help to you.

As you are in denial of your beliefs I will leave it there

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.’ Acts :20-25

Written years after the council of Jerusalem in Acts ch15

Your just repeating yourself now. Your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical. The reason for the decision in ACTS 15:20 was because Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day v21. They were to continue to learn from the WORD of GOD.

You do not believe that Gentile believers are free to break God's Commandments do you Karola?

If your interpretation is correct then PAUL is contradicting himself. Please reconcile the following scripture...

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As you are in denial of your beliefs I will leave it there

As you are confused as to what I believe let's leave it there.

 

[Karola]

Your just repeating yourself now. Your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical. .

So it is unbiblical to quote scripture that shows in Acts ch 15, and years later in Acts ch 21, the leaders of the Christian church gave, and reiterated the instruction that gentile converts were asked to follow four laws, avoiding the Levitical unclean foods was not mentioned.


I guess it proves the only thing that really matters is defending denominational beliefs, at all costs!