Am I Born Again?

[Chris V++]

I recommend Ray Sutton's book on covenant THAT YOU MAY PROSPER, as a good study so that you can understand the five covenant principles.

Well as I said I was baptized already, and mine was full immersion Trinitarian style, and I was old enough to remember it and it was of my own free will, so I guess I'm covered either way. Or are there 500 other technicalities I need to worry about concerning my salvation that only your denomination can rectify?

 

[MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah]

I am laughing myself silly at your post. You don't even realize what you just posted, do you?

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:27

Baptism puts you into Christ. Now how can you be put into someone if you are already in Him? How can you "put on" Christ if you are already wearing Him and your baptism is just a public profession that you have already put Him on by your "faith alone?"

Thank you for proving my point from Scripture.

And none of the other verses say "Give your life to Jesus" word for word. You are reading into them what you wish to believe and you also are ignoring what the Church taught in the first century, i.e., that baptism washes away sin and gives you new life in Christ.

Look, mere mental assent to facts does not save. The devils know the facts about Christ better than any of us. Are they saved?

Are we saved by faith alone through grace?
Or faith and baptism through grace?

 

[Light of the East]

Well as I said I was baptized full immersion Trinitarian style, and I was old enough to remember it and it was of my own free will, so I guess I'm covered either way. Or are there 500 other technicalities I need to worry about concerning my salvation?

That's not what I said to you, sir.

I was replying to your mistaken notion that the thief on the cross, who was under the Old Covenant, didn't need baptism and that therefore proves that baptism does not save. Let me repeat, baptism was not required for entrance into the Kingdom and salvation until the beginning of the New Covenant.

 

[Emli]

I am laughing myself silly at your post. You don't even realize what you just posted, do you?

Mocking and laughing at Scripture, and ignoring what it says, isn't gonna prove your point.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:27

Baptism puts you into Christ. Now how can you be put into someone if you are already in Him? How can you "put on" Christ if you are already wearing Him and your baptism is just a public profession that you have already put Him on by your "faith alone?"

Where could you possibly have found "faith alone" in my posts? Grace through faith is not faith alone. Grace through faith means=transforming work of the Holy Spirit through faithfulness.

Thank you for proving my point from Scripture.

And none of the other verses say "Give your life to Jesus" word for word. You are reading into them what you wish to believe and you also are ignoring what the Church taught in the first century, i.e., that baptism washes away sin and gives you new life in Christ.

And according to Jesus Christ Himself, as well as Paul, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.

"5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8

Look, mere mental assent to facts does not save.

I agree. It is the transformation by grace that saves us, the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Mere faith + baptism in water saves no one. Unless someone has been born of the Spirit, they cannot be in Christ. The church isn't Christ. The Church is His Body, the temple of the Holy Spirit. Christ is the true Vine, and we are grafted into Him by the Father, not by man, when we are born-again in the Spirit. Unless we have His Spirit, and we walk in His Spirit, we are not in Him, water baptism or no water baptism.

 

[Light of the East]

Are we saved by faith alone through grace?
Or faith and baptism through grace?

You will nowhere in the Scriptures find the words "faith alone" except when James says that "faith alone" is DEAD.

You appear to be ignoring what I said earlier to you, that just as circumcision entered one into the Covenant of God and His covenant Kingdom, baptism now does the same thing.

I would say to your last question that for adults, it is faith which makes one willing to be baptized into the covenant and that faith comes by grace and nothing we can do.

For infants, there needs to be a ceremony when the child is of the "age of accountability" where he publicly takes the covenant for his very own. In the Old Covenant, this ceremony was Bar Mitzvah. In the New Covenant, it is Confirmation.

 

[Chris V++]

I was replying to your mistaken notion that the thief on the cross, who was under the Old Covenant, didn't need baptism and that therefore proves that baptism does not save. Let me repeat, baptism was not required for entrance into the Kingdom and salvation until the beginning of the New Covenant.

I don't think you understand that you are talking to two different separate posters. I never said anything about the 'thief on the cross.' I'm the poster with the bird picture who had a full immersion baptism Trinitarian style. The 'thief on the cross'guy is Dave G. His icon has writing in it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

"5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8

Do you fit this description??

 

[Light of the East]

QUOTE="Emli, Mocking and laughing at Scripture, and ignoring what it says, isn't gonna prove your point.

Excuse me. It is not me who is ignoring what Scripture says. You posted Gal. 3:27 which, along with Romans 6:3, states as clearly as possible that we are baptized into Christ.

Where could you possibly have found "faith alone" in my posts? Grace through faith is not faith alone.

Faith alone is the standard operating understanding of all those who deny that baptism saves.

And according to Jesus Christ Himself, as well as Paul, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.

"5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-8

You are reading into these verses that which you wish to believe. If what you said is true, why was it not taught in the first, second, and third centuries of the Church? Why did no Christian believe the way you do until the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century? History is against you.

I agree. It is the transformation by grace that saves us, the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Mere faith + baptism in water saves no one. Unless someone has been born of the Spirit, they cannot be in Christ. The church isn't Christ. The Church is His Body, the temple of the Holy Spirit. Christ is the true Vine, and we are grafted into Him by the Father, not by man when we are born-again in the Spirit. Unless we have His Spirit, and we walk in His Spirit, we are not in Him, water baptism or no water baptism.

The Holy Spirit is given at baptism. This is the historic understanding of Christianity from day one.

 

[Chris V++]

Do you fit this description??

Mine does! Am I in??

 

[Light of the East]

I don't think you understand that you are talking to two different separate posters. I never said anything about the 'thief on the cross.' I'm the poster with the bird picture who had a full immersion baptism Trinitarian style. The 'thief on the cross'guy is Dave G. His icon has writing in it.

Whooopsie!!!

 

[Emli]

Do you fit this description??

Yes. Ever since I was born-again.

 

[MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah]

You will nowhere in the Scriptures find the words "faith alone" except when James says that "faith alone" is DEAD.

You appear to be ignoring what I said earlier to you, that just as circumcision entered one into the Covenant of God and His covenant Kingdom, baptism now does the same thing.

I would say to your last question that for adults, it is faith which makes one willing to be baptized into the covenant and that faith comes by grace and nothing we can do.

For infants, there needs to be a ceremony when the child is of the "age of accountability" where he publicly takes the covenant for his very own. In the Old Covenant, this ceremony was Bar Mitzvah. In the New Covenant, it is Confirmation.

A man was sentenced to death penalty, and while in prison, he converted and accepted the message of salvation.
The prison wouldn't let him get baptized, so he dies accepting his savior and Lord, but not baptized.
Is he saved or not.

 

[Emli]

Excuse me. It is not me who is ignoring what Scripture says. You posted Gal. 3:27 which, along with Romans 6:3, states as clearly as possible that we are baptized into Christ.

I didn't say that we are not baptized into Christ. In fact, I explained to you what that means. Why did you ignore it?

Faith alone is the standard operating understanding of all those who deny that baptism saves.

And once again, you are ignore the baptism of the Spirit.

You are reading into these verses that which you wish to believe. If what you said is true, why was it not taught in the first, second, and third centuries of the Church? Why did no Christian believe the way you do until the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century? History is against you.

I am reading and believing the Bible, as it is written. It is what the first Christians taught. The Apostles knew Christ, and Paul knew Christ spiritually. What was enough for them is enough for me. Why the churches then decided to add to God's Word is beyond me. I choose God's Word over the traditions of men.

The Holy Spirit is given at baptism. This is the historic understanding of Christianity from day one.

Except it isn't, unless the person has faith. There are many who believe that they are saved, because they have been baptized in water, but who aren't and who show no fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Chris V++]

A man was sentenced to death penalty, and while in prison, he converted and accepted the message of salvation.
The prison wouldn't let him get baptized, so he dies accepting his savior and Lord, but not baptized.
Is he saved or not.

I think he's supposed to use toilet water or sink water in the event he can't do the full immersion, provided he wasn't sprinkled as a baby. There's actually formal doctrines about this sort of scenerio I've heard.

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Mine does! Am I in??

Really? Maybe you need to read it again

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes. Ever since I was born-again.

Really, you might want to read it again. "My Kingdom is not of this world"

 

[Emli]

You will nowhere in the Scriptures find the words "faith alone" except when James says that "faith alone" is DEAD.

That is referring to works, works that should follow faith, proving that the faith is genuine. It is not referring to baptism.

 

[friend of]

Yes OP I'd say you are born again.

Acts 2:41

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about 3000 were added to their number that day.

Now, nowhere does it say that this 3000 were baptized in water. How could a handful of apostles baptize all those people in water in a single day? Clearly they couldn't. This is talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit which is purely by faith.

 

[HTacianas]

I've accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord, that only by faith through grace I'm saved.
I've confessed my faith in Christianity, to 1 or 2 people (in person), many more online.
I've repented from all sins.
I read the scriptures daily and pray without ceasing.

I have not been baptized by water.

Am I born again?

Baptism in water is required, but baptism alone is no garantee.

Act 8:14 - Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 - Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 - (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 - Then laid they theirhands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

 

[Emli]

Really, you might want to read it again. "My Kingdom is not of this world"

Yes, really. I'm also in His Kingdom, led by the Holy Spirit (wind), taken out of the world spiritually but not physically. Just like Jesus was not of this world, but here doing the work of His Father.

Also see John 14:16-17, 1 John 4:5-6, John 15:19, John 17:14, Romans 8:14, Ephesians 2:6

But I'm interested in knowing what your point is.