Will God save people out of hell too? And did Jesus go to hell for the 3 days after his crucifixtion

Robin Mauro

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?
 
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Robin Mauro

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?
Sorry, I posted 2 threads on this subject, the 2nd with a couple of scripture references.
I have trouble navigating this website.
 
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St_Worm2

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?
Hi Robin, our eternal destination is decided on this side of the grave, and that principally on the basis of whether or not we know God & He knows us (whether or not we have come to saving faith in Christ) .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23; Mark 16:16; John 3:18, 17:3; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 9:27.

In fact, salvation (since our progenitors were sent out of the Garden of God) has always been by faith/believing (e.g. Genesis 15:6), just like it is today. Since Jesus had not lived, died and been resurrected during OT times however, the Lord withheld His judgment/temporarily passed over the sins that the OT saints had committed until they could be finally be atoned for and forgiven .. cf Romans 3:25.

Also, take note of Luke 16:19-31 where the Lord details 'Sheol/Hell/the place of the dead' for us, which included a place for those who died in faith (Abraham's Bosom/Paradise .. where Lazarus went), and a place for those who did not (Hades .. where the rich man went).

Yours and His,
David
 
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mnorian

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?

Hi Robin;
This forum is for "Questions about CF" and as the tag under the forum title says: "Questions about navigating through CF" or the more technical side of CF not for theological questions; which would be better in a forum like General Theology:

General Theology
 
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This thread has been moved to the Controversial Christian Theology forum.
Please note and abide by the Statement of Purpose of this forum.

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Greg J.

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?
There's a lot of dispute about all the varying "bad" places a person can be (Hell, Gehenna, Hades, etc.), but I'm guessing that is not what your question is about.

All over Scripture we see that not everyone is saved. The idea that all will be saved because God desires everyone to be saved has no basis. What God desires and what he decides are often two different things (e.g., Ezekiel 33:11). There's also an argument that says a God of love wouldn't throw people into eternal torment, but that ignores God's definition of love, which comes from His own nature, and is revealed through the whole of Scripture. Human deduction takes a distant back seat to what God said.

People in the Old Testament (before Christ paid for their sins) went to a place that some simply call Abraham's Bosom, in which there was both a tormenting place and a peaceful place. It comes from the passage Luke 16:19-31. This can seem like a parable, but the first two words in the passage tell us it actually happened. (Contrast that with when Jesus started a story with The Kingdom of God is like ...)

Abraham's Bosom is where people went who died before Jesus' death. Some had trusted God to save them even though they did not know the Good News of Jesus Christ, and some did not. The references to Jesus descending to the lower earthly regions and preaching the good news is presumably a reference to Jesus going to Abraham's Bosom and preaching the good news, which resulted in those who had entrusted themselves to God being led in a train to heaven with Christ, and presumably threw those who had rejected God to Hell.

Salvation is by faith alone, so after a person dies, he can no longer be saved, because he knows God is real and who He is "by sight." Being in or entering into a state of rejecting God by sight rather than by faith results in eternal spiritual death. This is what Satan did. So, if a person dies in their sins, they will go to a bad place ("Hell") until the Day of Judgment after which he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever. This is not necessarily because God has passed judgment on him; the person was not reborn in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17, et al.) and hence continued to have a sinful spiritual nature (inherited ultimately from Adam after he sinned). Those who die who's spirits are still tainted with sin (i.e., weren't born again) cannot withstand God's presence. They are destroyed, which, for people physically dead, means goes to eternal punishment.

Jesus was not punished or tormented in any way after he died. The sin of mankind that he took upon himself passed away when his body died.

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. (1 Peter 2:24, 1984 NIV)
 
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Pneuma3

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?
Robin check out finelinens thread the restitution of all things. Many of your questions will be answered there.

P.S. scripture does not imply everyone will be saved they come right out and state it and even command us to teach it

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. this command and teach.
 
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Greg J.

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There are no contradictions in Scripture. Any apparent contradiction is due to ignorance about God or faulty human reasoning.

“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
(Matthew 18:8, 1995 NASB)

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (Matthew 25:41, 1995 NASB)

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46, 1995 NASB)

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18, 1995 NIV)

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36, 1995 NASB)

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
(2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, 1995 NIV)

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. (Jude 1:12-13, 1995 NIV)

he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14:10-11, 1995 NASB)

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15, 1995 NASB)

“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8, 1995 NASB)
 
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ClementofA

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Robin Mauro

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That's because many Bible versions have been mistranslated by the people who are biased to the "hell forever" idea. But many other Bible versions don't speak of "hell forever", such as these: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Hmmm, I have read many, many translations of the Bible, having been a non-denominational believer for most of my 59 years, including the Douay Rheims Catholic Bible, which is my favorite, even though I am not Catholic :), and they all say pretty much the same things - only the nuances are different - except for the Catholic Bible which has more books and parts of books, and they all talk about hell...every single one of them, but I will look at the link you sent when I have time. Thanks
 
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Robin Mauro

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Robin check out finelinens thread the restitution of all things. Many of your questions will be answered there.

P.S. scripture does not imply everyone will be saved they come right out and state it and even command us to teach it

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. this command and teach.
Yes, the scripture 1 Timothy 4:10. He is savior of all men, especially to those who believe, scripture is another example of scripture which makes me think we don't completely understand about hell. That one may be the best example.
I will check out that thread, if and when I can find it, and when I have time. Thank-you so much
 
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Robin Mauro

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There are no contradictions in Scripture. Any apparent contradiction is due to ignorance about God or faulty human reasoning.

“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
(Matthew 18:8, 1995 NASB)

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (Matthew 25:41, 1995 NASB)

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46, 1995 NASB)

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18, 1995 NIV)

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36, 1995 NASB)

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
(2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, 1995 NIV)

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. (Jude 1:12-13, 1995 NIV)

he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14:10-11, 1995 NASB)

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15, 1995 NASB)

“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8, 1995 NASB)
Greg J., thank-you. Yes, I have read all those many times.
How do you explain 1 Timothy 4:10-11?
"That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.
Thanks for consolidating all those hell scriptures. In light of 1Timothy, I will be studying them again to see if I can ascertain if hell is eternal, but if people's stay there is not.
 
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Kaon

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I posted asking how to start a new thread, and thought this was just for technical questions, but maybe it is for all threads. So...
I wonder a lot about these two questions. Many scriptures seem to make it plain that people go to hell forever, but others imply everyone will be saved.
And do you think Jesus went to hell for us, for 3 days?

The quick answer is that there are a certain election of people - relatively finite - that are the people of the Most High God from the foundations of everything. They always will be.

Only those people will be saved, even if they happen to go to hell (Gnostic). The people of the Most High God - the finite election - will be saved even if they let themselves stay in iniquity and, therefore, hell perpetually. Eventually, they are going to "come to" and be saved. This is the one application of the parable of the Shepherd going after the one sheep, leaving the other 99. The other 99 are in heaven safe; that one is wandering - a biblical euphemism for hell. (Gnostic).
 
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Greg J.

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Greg J., thank-you. Yes, I have read all those many times.
How do you explain 1 Timothy 4:10-11?
"That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.
Thanks for consolidating all those hell scriptures. In light of 1Timothy, I will be studying them again to see if I can ascertain if hell is eternal, but if people's stay there is not.
He is referencing the fact that Jesus's death paid for everyone's sins. However, people do not automatically get salvation from that. They must choose to accept Jesus as their Lord (and thus be born again), otherwise they are in the same class as demons (James 2:19). Hence it means Jesus died for everyone, but only those who believe receive the benefit.
 
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Pneuma3

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He is referencing the fact that Jesus's death paid for everyone's sins. However, people do not automatically get salvation from that. They must choose to accept Jesus as their Lord (and thus be born again), otherwise they are in the same class as demons (James 2:19). Hence it means Jesus died for everyone, but only those who believe receive the benefit.
that is not what it says at all. it says saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

tis showing the difference between the overcomers and the rest of mankind and Christ IS the saviour of BOTH parties.
 
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Pneuma3

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Yes, the scripture 1 Timothy 4:10. He is savior of all men, especially to those who believe, scripture is another example of scripture which makes me think we don't completely understand about hell. That one may be the best example.
I will check out that thread, if and when I can find it, and when I have time. Thank-you so much

The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
 
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Greg J.

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..., who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Timothy 4:10, 1984 NASB)

Both phrases are assertions of who Jesus is, but nothing is said in this verse about what the effect of that is. It's like we are learning one of Jesus' titles.
 
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ClementofA

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Hmmm, I have read many, many translations of the Bible, having been a non-denominational believer for most of my 59 years, including the Douay Rheims Catholic Bible, which is my favorite, even though I am not Catholic :), and they all say pretty much the same things - only the nuances are different - except for the Catholic Bible which has more books and parts of books, and they all talk about hell...every single one of them, but I will look at the link you sent when I have time. Thanks

Generally Bible versions describe "hell" even if they never use the word "hell", such as in those Bibles listed here: Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever

However by referring to "hell forever" i had in mind English Bible versions that speak of punishment being "forever" or "everlasting" or "eternal", e.g. Matthew 25:46. Here is a list of English translations that don't use those words in that verse:

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

If there is no "hell forever" in Scripture, then it isn't difficult to see how a temporary hell harmonizes with Bible verses that refer to all being saved, such as these: Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
 
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