Judas

[mmksparbud]

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[dreadnought]

As well the teaching of both Jesus and the Apostles .. again cf Matthew 25:46; Luke 16:26; Revelation 14:11. Perhaps that's why it is such a "commonly held belief"

--David

Punishment is eternal for those who never repent.

 

[St_Worm2]

I am finding that as I grow older that I am placing less and less credence in "the commonly held belief".

Hi Jack, it seems to me that such a thing is absolutely necessary for anyone wishing to stay in lockstep with the world, which has come to all but fully embrace the belief that there are MANY "truths", but no "Truth".

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

Punishment is eternal for those who never repent.

For some reason I feel like we've begun to talk in circles about this Dread

 

[dreadnought]

For some reason I feel like we've begun to talk in circles about this Dread

I hadn't noticed it yet, though there is always that potential.

 

[Darren Brown]

as an apostle to replace Judas in this ministry, for he has deserted us and gone where he belongs. Acts 1:25 NLT. Peter is speaking here sure sounds like he believes Judas went to hell.

 

[JerseyChristianSuperstar]

Do you think Judas went to heaven or hell? Some believe he went to hell because he killed himself. Some think he went to heaven because he seemed to realize what he did was wrong.

Judas was damned. There is a reason he was called the son of perdition, and why Our Lord Jesus said it would have been better if he were never born...

 

[Eishiba]

So was it because he didnt repent? So if a believer, whom God knew his heart was right, went off the road in his car at 70 mph because his tire blew out and he shouted a curse word just before his car crashed, he would end up in hell? Even though his heart was right?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you think Judas went to heaven or hell? Some believe he went to hell because he killed himself. Some think he went to heaven because he seemed to realize what he did was wrong.

The Bible seems to indicate that Judas was not saved. John 17:12 "None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." "doomed to destruction" is pretty strong language. Also there is a strong reference to what David wrote about Judas: Psalm 41:9 "Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me." Psalm 55:13 "But it is you, a man like myself, my companion and close friend. 14 We shared sweet fellowship together; we walked with the crowd into the house of God." Luke 22:48 "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"

Treason can be a serious crime.

William Bruce Mumford, convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.

In his final speech he proclaimed his love for what he considered the true meaning of the U.S. flag, a symbol he had fought under in the Seminole Wars and the Mexican–American War.

 

[RDKirk]

So was it because he didnt repent? So if a believer, whom God knew his heart was right, went off the road in his car at 70 mph because his tire blew out and he shouted a curse word just before his car crashed, he would end up in hell? Even though his heart was right?

What makes you think his heart was right?

 

[mukk_in]

Judas was an apostate and is in hell (John 6:70, John 17:12, Acts 1:25). Unlike Peter, he never sought forgiveness and instead succumbed to worldly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10). Peace in Christ.

 

[Blade]

I look at this like.. God never spared His angels. Can't say they didnt know the truth. Judas.. he was with the messiah for how long? Seen heard what? He made a choice. Though Christ said the one that handed me over has the greater sin. Peter lied? NO SIN enters heaven. No matter what Peter did or Judas in this world SIN = death. As or after.. I can not say. Judas we dont know his heart. He may have felt guilty but not ever repented. Jesus never as far as we read never told Peter to repent..HEY you did lie about me 3 times like I said you would.. He already told us.. HE didnt come to judge or condemn.

After I die and go to my Father.. these things will never be on my mind. I have no say here.. And what EVER the Father does.. HE will never ask how we feel about it.

 

[Eishiba]

What makes you think his heart was right?

Judas? Its hard to say. He felt guilty for what he did so he obviously was convicted and felt like many of us do when we are convicted.

The believer in my example? I was simply assuming it was someone with a correct heart.

I wasn't sure who you were referring to.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Punishment is eternal for those who never repent.

So if I put all these pieces together. I wind up with,

Judas never believed in Jesus as the Christ. He never trusted in Jesus as the Messiah. Instead, he cynically used the Nazarene Sect as his personal cash cow. And when he saw a months worth of his gambling money. Quote Unquote wasted on anointing Jesus as the Messiah. He decided to get his monthly gambling money some other way. He went straight to the temple and sold out Jesus for 30 shekels of silver enough to cover him at the gambling tables for the next month, so to speak.

Now evidently he didn't take Jesus very seriously. Evidently, he thought he would just sell Jesus to the authorities for 30 shekels. Jesus would get whipped and released as the nothing Judas thought he was. But when he saw that his actions had serious consequences. he did tell the priests, Hey guys, he's nothing. Let him go but the priests wouldn't.



As of right now, I'm not quite sure why he went off and hanged himself. I guess maybe he really was a Zealot Sicarri as per Josephus. Maybe he really was a stickler for the law in some hypocritical sense and when he didn't receive the priest Spartan. He felt obligated to hang himself or something. Baby, he wasn't gambling with the money, but syphoning it off to fund the zealot movement??/

 

[Stevej66]

Do you think Judas went to heaven or hell? Some believe he went to hell because he killed himself. Some think he went to heaven because he seemed to realize what he did was wrong.

I understand it is not for us to know what God decided, but it is interesting as a debate.
For me I had a study time with a priest as I attempted to find faith. I asked if God choose Judas to fulfil the scripture, if so that feels harsh if he suffered because of it. I was told that there was evidence that Judas was a bad person, kind of he was chosen because he had fallen from God.
Ultimately if the criminal next to Christ on the cross, could ask and receive forgiveness for his sins at the very last moment, we surely must agree that Judas could have been saved.

 

[Toro]

I believe hell is the consequence of our sin, so repent.

Hell is a choice.

Judas COULD have been saved.... HOWEVER, he chose death instead of faith and continued life.

Peter denied Jesus 3 times..... BUT he wept bitterly AND he didn't see himself worthy to preach the gospel and returned to his life of fishing. Yet after knowing the Lord was on shore he left everything behind and swam to Him.

I DO believe that Judas COULD have been saved IF he had allowed God to change his heart, but he sold out his salvation for the riches of this world.... when he realized how empty and hollow those riches were..... he did what he did.

The world is FULL of people that claim the name Christ..just as Judas did...... yet in their heart they still LOVE the things of this world, be it money, power, praise, entertainment..... etc. Yes we can all justify the things we put before God.... just as Adam justified his innocence in the garden and disobeying God..... "Eve gave me the apple and you gave me Eve so your fault." love of money justification being things like "We all need it to live".... which is true, HOWEVER it is where money takes place in the heart that matters..... same with power, entertainment or anything else we seek rather than spend time with the Father.

Yes, we all have things to do.... but if all you REALLY have is 10 minutes..... and you spend that 10 minutes TRULY devoted to the Father..... He is happier with that than the person spending an empty 1 hour with Him when they have all day to devote to Him.

When we put other things before our salvation.... we are just as Judas.... difference between Judas and most people that excuse their sin....... he knew his mistake immediately.

 

[frater_domus]

Suicide is not condemned in the Bible. There have been multiple mentions of it, but none specifically said that doing so would be a sin. Naturally, it is still a bad thing to do because of how you impact others like your family, but the action itself is not condemned. To my knowledge, anyway. I may be wrong.

As for Judas, he was convicted by the Spirit in the end, wasn't he? He sinned like we all have and he killed himself because of that guilt. So couldn't have been too far gone to still feel guilt. Still, we do not know for sure, only God does.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I believe Judas is in hell for a few reasons. Why? Because he could have chosen to follow Jesus but instead went to hang himself thus eliminating any and all chance of salvation. Two, Jesus says in Matthew 26:24 that it would be better if Judas were never born. Why would it be better if Judas were never born if he eventually went to heaven? Third as it was pointed out in others parts of the thread Judas was a witness to the resurrection and will be a witness to Jesus's second coming. How could he witness these things when he's dead? Its true those in heaven will be able to see those things too but... Judas is in torment in Hades right now. He's unfortunately, not in heaven. He lost the chance of heaven when he decided to hang himself. He could have been forgiven but chose to not be forgiven. Out of remorse yes. But remorse doesn't save. Faith in Christ does. Judas never had faith in Christ.

 

[dreadnought]

So if I put all these pieces together. I wind up with,

Judas never believed in Jesus as the Christ. He never trusted in Jesus as the Messiah. Instead, he cynically used the Nazarene Sect as his personal cash cow. And when he saw a months worth of his gambling money. Quote Unquote wasted on anointing Jesus as the Messiah. He decided to get his monthly gambling money some other way. He went straight to the temple and sold out Jesus for 30 shekels of silver enough to cover him at the gambling tables for the next month, so to speak.

Now evidently he didn't take Jesus very seriously. Evidently, he thought he would just sell Jesus to the authorities for 30 shekels. Jesus would get whipped and released as the nothing Judas thought he was. But when he saw that his actions had serious consequences. he did tell the priests, Hey guys, he's nothing. Let him go but the priests wouldn't.



As of right now, I'm not quite sure why he went off and hanged himself. I guess maybe he really was a Zealot Sicarri as per Josephus. Maybe he really was a stickler for the law in some hypocritical sense and when he didn't receive the priest Spartan. He felt obligated to hang himself or something. Baby, he wasn't gambling with the money, but syphoning it off to fund the zealot movement??/

If you put all these pieces together, do as Jesus told you to do:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[dreadnought]

Hell is a choice.

Judas COULD have been saved.... HOWEVER, he chose death instead of faith and continued life.

Paul denied Jesus 3 times..... BUT he wept bitterly AND he didn't see himself worthy to preach the gospel and returned to his life of fishing. Yet after knowing the Lord was on shore he left everything behind and swam to Him.

I DO believe that Judas COULD have been saved IF he had allowed God to change his heart, but he sold out his salvation for the riches of this world.... when he realized how empty and hollow those riches were..... he did what he did.

The world is FULL of people that claim the name Christ..just as Judas did...... yet in their heart they still LOVE the things of this world, be it money, power, praise, entertainment..... etc. Yes we can all justify the things we put before God.... just as Adam justified his innocence in the garden and disobeying God..... "Eve gave me the apple and you gave me Eve so your fault." love of money justification being things like "We all need it to live".... which is true, HOWEVER it is where money takes place in the heart that matters..... same with power, entertainment or anything else we seek rather than spend time with the Father.

Yes, we all have things to do.... but if all you REALLY have is 10 minutes..... and you spend that 10 minutes TRULY devoted to the Father..... He is happier with that than the person spending an empty 1 hour with Him when they have all day to devote to Him.

When we put other things before our salvation.... we are just as Judas.... difference between Judas and most people that excuse their sin....... he knew his mistake immediately.

Well, yes, when we sin, it is by choice.