Christians - tell me about Satan?

[Dave RP]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

 

[ewq1938]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

Why do you think God didn't know about it....and seriously you type "god"...no respect for our beliefs? If you were a Satanist I would use the capital S just out of basic respect. Nice start! ;-)

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

He will, read the end of the bible.

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

Dumb question...come on!

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Way too heavy of a question for this kind of thread mate.

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

That type-o gave me brain cancer...thanks! (j/k)

 

[Dave RP]

1. Because god was walking in the garden and Adam and Eve hid from him, and he asked them a question. Either he didn’t know what they’d done or he was being deceitful?

2. Why does he allow Satan to cause misery now, why not just take him out, if god is all powerful?

3. Ok

4. Go on, give it a go!

Sorry for the typo.

 

[Tom 1]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

It's tricky to really get a full and clear picture from the bible, in any case I think it is. Starting with the 'tree incident', moving on to the book of Job and then Jesus' mentions of Satan in the gospels, other mentions in the letters, and in revelation, he seems to start off and continue to some extent as a 'tester' of humankind; probing and testing for weaknesses. In Job, he seems to move into a more adversarial mode, goading God almost to put Job to the test and showing a consistent cynicism about humanity in general. In the NT, he has moved on to being an active enemy of mankind, prowling around looking for people to devour, a fallen being who is consumed with anger at the failure of his own rebellion and his hatred for mankind. There appears to be some sense of his feeling angry at being usurped in God's affections by mankind, or something of that sort, and a deep enmity towards and cynicism about humans that has become stronger over time.

Job has Satan 'roaming the earth', Peter has him prowling like a lion in 1 Peter, giving the impression that he is not omnipresent.

I don't think he exists as a horned devil with a pitchfork. But, in the overall idea that encompasses God overseeing a heavenly court of some kind made up of sentient beings, the nature of mankind's freedom to act within certain boundaries, and the harsh nature of reality regarding the consequences of human actions, the idea of a being that pushes for the probing and testing of humankind makes sense to me. It also makes sense to me psychologically, assuming that Satan has something that fundamentally operates like a human mind or is an analogue of one in at least some ways, that, being in the position of adversary and mistrustful of and skeptical about the whole human experiment, he would come to hate humans more intensely over a long period of time.

 

[ewq1938]

1. Because god was walking in the garden and Adam and Eve hid from him, and he asked them a question. Either he didn’t know what they’d done or he was being deceitful?

Or he just asked a question...sheesh.

2. Why does he allow Satan to cause misery now, why not just take him out, if god is all powerful?

God uses Satan for his own purposes...book of Job as evidence.

Sorry for the typo.

It was just humor.

 

[HTacianas]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

I sometimes prefer one of the Jewish views of Satan as the "evil influence". There is a Jewish prayer of repentance that goes in part, "you have placed in us an evil influence and commanded us to resist it through observance of your holy laws". Note that according to the prayer this evil influence is placed in us by God. The ancient Essenes, a Jewish group much like the Sadducees and the Pharisees, had a saying, " all things are best ascribed to God". So the idea of the evil influence being placed in us by God is nothing new.

The Church Fathers taught what they referred to as "logismoi". Logismoi meaning an assaultive thought that attacks a monk during prayer. That thought may have an external source such as a demon, or it may be completely internal, with no demonic source at all. What is important, rather than the source of the thought, is to resist it.

Now to your question. Who is Satan? What is Satan? How does Satan work? Why doesn't God know the workings of Satan?

I don't know. I know that we have an evil inside us, and I know that we are in fact assaulted by evil thoughts. I know that we are obligated to resist those thoughts and the evil inside us.

I'm certain that does not answer your question, but it may at least give you some perspective on your question.

 

[Dave G.]

Satan has a purpose in God's plan. It's that simple. When the plan is done/completed/fulfilled Satan will be dealt with too. If you are to investigate the reality of Satan, then why not God ? Satan already has his draw on you as an atheist but that is allowed by God. If you entertain the concept of Satan, let me just say that you can't have Satan without the concept of God.

Satan is not omnipresent and he can not read your thoughts but can interject into your thoughts. Satan has many minions to do his work. This is spiritual but there can be very real manifestations. Satan is a professional at mimicking God, at making things look good and inviting and it is all fake, it's not in his plan for you to have anything good at all, he wants your destruction ultimately and will go to any length to have you follow him to that end, to include luring you in with enticing ideas, only to later find out you were completely deceived... He is in some churches and has influenced false doctrine. His most lucrative sport is the world system. You are most deceived when you think all is well and you are not bothered by him, in that case he has no purpose with you because he already has you.

Satan had to visit the garden if we were to have free will, the freedom to choose. Incidentally the English translations of that event aren't so great in that he is depicted as a serpent. A more accurate depiction is that he manifested himself as "the shining one", one upright, tall and hansom, friendly looking. Also as the end times play out he will be masked similarly, he will manifest many ways, will be difficult tell apart from some Godly person well intended. In reality his real nature is said to be bullish. For those aware enough he really is just a buffoon and already defeated. To the unknowing he is treacherous.

 

[Dave RP]

Satan has a purpose in God's plan. It's that simple. When the plan is done/completed/fulfilled Satan will be dealt with too. If you are to investigate the reality of Satan, then why not God ? Satan already has his draw on you as an atheist but that is allowed by God. If you entertain the concept of Satan, let me just say that you can't have Satan without the concept of God.

Satan is not omnipresent and he can not read your thoughts but can interject into your thoughts. Satan has many minions to do his work. This is spiritual but there can be very real manifestations. Satan is a professional at mimicking God, at making things look good and inviting and it is all fake, it's not in his plan for you to have anything good at all, he wants your destruction ultimately and will go to any length to have you follow him to that end, to include luring you in with enticing ideas, only to later find out you were completely deceived... He is in some churches and has influenced false doctrine. His most lucrative sport is the world system. You are most deceived when you think all is well and you are not bothered by him, in that case he has no purpose with you because he already has you.

Satan had to visit the garden if we were to have free will, the freedom to choose. Incidentally the English translations of that event aren't so great in that he is depicted as a serpent. A more accurate depiction is that he manifested himself as "the shining one", one upright, tall and hansom, friendly looking. Also as the end times play out he will be masked similarly, he will manifest many ways, will be difficult tell apart from some Godly person well intended. In reality his real nature is said to be bullish. For those aware enough he really is just a buffoon and already defeated. To the unknowing he is treacherous.

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, I do not believe either god or Satan exist, I just wanted to ask what Christians believe regarding Satan. I am dating a Christian, hence the subject interests me.

 

[cvanwey]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

Many may argue that one does not know if the snake was actually Satan himself, or instead just a serpent. But either way, one needs to reconcile that Satan has the ability to change form, or that one has to reconcile a talking snake.

And if Satan has the ability to change form, then prove Satan was not Jesus in disguise? I mean, if Satan was able to commit one of the largest tragedies ever, to perpetrate the 'fall of man', then who's to say Satan was not then also able to change form, into a fake Messiah, to get many to worship a false God, getting many here to break commandment number one.

Furthermore, some may argue for 'free choice / free will'. Meaning, just as God allows all such choices for humans today, God allowed for Eve/Adam to choose as well back then.

But here's another fascinating question....

Why would God hold Eve accountable for her actions PRIOR to KNOWING the different between good/evil?.?.?.? She had not eaten from the very tree of knowledge, which would have given here the ability to judge her actions.

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

'Free will / free choice'

But I feel a more accurate and be-fitting answer might actually be: 'Every good story needs a villain.'

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

Without Satan, there is no 'sin' or no bad Also, refer to the end of answer #2 in 'quotes'

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

He would have to be everywhere all at once. Otherwise, how could he tempt every individual on the planet? How could so many, simultaneously accuse Satan for their committed 'sins' and atrocities? Which begs the questions from answer #1 further. If Satan is able to change form and also be everywhere all at once, how does one know they are not receiving answers from Satan, and not their God? If one is to then state that God places limits on Satan's abilities, this even raises another host of interesting questions!

 

[Hazelelponi]

What we call Satan is actually two things.

When Jesus was preparing His disciples for what was to happen (His suffering and death) Peter denied such a thing would happen to Him (thinking to prevent it from happening) ans Jesus responded to Peter by saying:

Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."

So we see in this that when our nature is contrary to, or at odds with, God's will we are "Satan" which is a word which means "an adversary; one who resists". So, when our nature "resists" God will, then we become Satan. And truly, our own nature is usually resisting of God's will for us..

Then we have a Satan which is without. He was our adversary in old testament times in the same sense as a lawyer (see criminal adversarial proceeding) is our adversary. This is seen in Job. That role of Satan as our adversary before God ended during the lifetime of Jesus. It was foretold in Isaiah 14:12 but came to fruition as told in Luke 10:18 where Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

Being forever removed from the Heavenly realms left Satan and His angels (demons now) angry about losing his position before God and secondly desirous of keeping as many as possible from salvation (out of anger). So now he is not our accuser before God for what we do depending on circumstance, now he is our enemy who tries to keep us from being in Jesus's hand (power).

Therefore as we see in 1 Peter 5:8 "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."

And so as we see, "Satan" can be either one of two things, 1) a nature in us which is resistant to God's will, or 2) can be without us and be Satan (or his demons who do his bidding), trying to tempt us and keep us away from Jesus's Hand by any means possible.

Our resistant nature never goes away, even if we lock up Satan and all his demons with him and throw away the key.... but through God's Holy Spirit we can learn to overcome our nature and draw close to God.

To answer your question about Adam and Eve, if God didn't give us a nature that could resist Him then we would be little more than slaves or robots. I like to think of God as being better than that. We have a choice. I love a God who gave us one. Adam and Eve made theirs.

And no one forced them to it..

 

[cvanwey]

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, I do not believe either god or Satan exist, I just wanted to ask what Christians believe regarding Satan. I am dating a Christian, hence the subject interests me.

Did you ask her these questions? What was her take? Or maybe you don't want to broach these topics, because it's too early in the relationship? Or, discussion of religion and politics may be the 'kiss of death'.

 

[Dave G.]

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, I do not believe either god or Satan exist, I just wanted to ask what Christians believe regarding Satan. I am dating a Christian, hence the subject interests me.

You say that but deep inside you know there is something, we all do. If you are really honest with yourself, you know the possibility exists for this spiritual realm to also exist but currently you have put up a road block to it.. If quantum science see's the reality of more dimensions, a lot more, then who is to say that God and all things we don't fully understand don't exist there and thus we can not see them even though they are right here right now in the same space we are in but in that other dimension ? Why limit your horizons to a flat out no ? If you consider coincidences in your life, you will have to admit to yourself that some are uncanny and as if something caused them or manipulated the occurrences and sometimes instantly by the way. You can ignore it if you like but you are fooling yourself to do so. This is a simple matter of tuning in rather than tuning out. I would challenge you. The challenge would be to honestly approach the Gospel of John, to read the Gospel of John with an open mind and after reading it to ask in your heart, from your heart, for Jesus Christ to reveal himself to you. IE " if you are real Jesus then reveal yourself to me". You don't have to believe in Him, you're asking for this revelation so you could and mustering up that tiny little seed of faith to ask ( good faith you are asking in) is all He needs. I would submit to you that you have not met this Christian woman by coincidence. I would submit to you that if you do that challenge honestly ( this is about full honesty, not joking around) that in some way you aren't expecting, Jesus will fulfill the challenge and reveal himself to you in some manner that has meaning perhaps only to you.. It's a matter of opening your mind and your heart just a little bit. What do you have to lose in trying this ? Don't put any conditions on it or any expectations on it and see if in time something isn't revealed. If it is not then you haven't lost anything and if it is it could lead to a new awakening in your life and also in time eternal spiritual life that you do not have now.

Everything is spiritual, all has a spiritual background or backdrop to it. Right now you can not see that, it's blocked from your view. How unfair is it to yourself if you are the very one blocking it by not asking for a simple revelation !

 

[Tinker Grey]

You say that but deep inside you know there is something, we all do.

Please, please, please, please do NOT tell me what I know.

I do NOT know there is something.

 

[Sanoy]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

1. I wouldn't take the Omni's as absolute, but logically maximal. Short version God knew the adversary was tricking Eve and He chose to allow it in His wisdom.
2. Can Chuck Norris win a game of chess through manjutsu? He can't, there are logical constraints to winning a game of chess, and God's singular nature poses logical constraints. The goat for azazel ritual paints a picture of ownership and substitution. Where we are owned by azazel (the adversary) who rules over part of sheol and a goat is sent in our place carrying the debt of our ownership. We are lawfully owned by another, and a price must be paid. Christ has conquered sin and death, we are sprung free and He is freeing those held captive by the adversary. (your GF will likely not recognize some of this as it requires some scholarly biblical study)
3. Absolutely, I have been attacked by demons in the real sense and saved immediately upon crying out to God.
4. The adversary is an Elohim, which is translated as a god in English but does not bare the same meaning as it does in Hebrew. From what I have learned from reading books about exorcism the entire body of demons act as one entity under the adversary. In that sense they are multipresent but not omnipresent. They can temp, they can amplify desires, they can restrain, they can cause us to see things, and they can bend reality like a rubberband, which upon letting go it returns with no signs of being changed. (again your GF may not relate to what I am talking about here if she simply goes to church)

 

[Dave G.]

Please, please, please, please do NOT tell me what I know.

I do NOT know there is something.

 

[Silmarien]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

I'm not quite Christian, but on the same page more often than not. I see no reason to accept the existence of a literal Satan, though I wouldn't rule out the existence of some sort of malevolent spiritual force entirely. That said, your questions presuppose that the Fall was not part of the original plan. If we want to take the Genesis story literally, God could and very likely did intend for the snake to behave as it did.

As for why God doesn't sort Satan out (whatever Satan might be), one answer Christianity can offer is that he actually has. The Christus Victor theory of the Atonement says precisely this--that in the Resurrection, Christ overcame death, sin, and the devil. History is moving forwards towards ultimate reconciliation with God.

 

[Chriliman]

I'm not quite Christian, but on the same page more often than not. I see no reason to accept the existence of a literal Satan, though I wouldn't rule out the existence of some sort of malevolent spiritual force entirely. That said, your questions presuppose that the Fall was not part of the original plan. If we want to take the Genesis story literally, God could and very likely did intend for the snake to behave as it did.

As for why God doesn't sort Satan out (whatever Satan might be), one answer Christianity can offer is that he actually has. The Christus Victor theory of the Atonement says precisely this--that in the Resurrection, Christ overcame death, sin, and the devil. History is moving forwards towards ultimate reconciliation with God.

Yes, at least God’s kingdom (love, righteous judgment and peacemaking) has been established on earth, however, there are still those outside the kingdom who serve evil instead of God. I love how you put it “History is moving forwards towards ultimate reconciliation with God.” Right on!

 

[JackRT]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) first occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. By the way the Book of Job is not a literal history but rather a sort of extended parable and was likely transmitted orally long before it was recorded in print about 1000 BC. The next reference to Satan is some 500 years later in Zechariah writing during the Exile. Following that the next reference is another 500 years later in Matthew.

There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: "4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil.

The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

So, in summary the Devil is a conflation of Satan from Job and Lucifer from Isaiah and the serpent from Genesis. A lot of the modern notions of the Devil and Hell finds its roots in lurid medieval fiction like "The Inferno" by the Italian poet Dante.

Speaking as a mature Christian, I do not take talk of the Devil and Hell in a literal way.

 

[ewq1938]

The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on?

Assumption of things that are not biblical. (see underlined error)

 

[eleos1954]

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did Satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort Satan out?

3. Do you believe Satan exists, really?

4. Tell me more about how Satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of Satan amongst the most unbelievable.

1. If god is all powerful, all seeing and all knowing how did satan get to trick Eve without god knowing what he was doing?

God created mankind and the angels in heaven with free will which is about Love. You can't have true love without free will. You can't MAKE anyone love anyone. The plan of salvation was put in place before the earth was created ... God knew satan (called lucifer) in heaven would rebel (therefore free will in heaven as well). He cast lucifer and 1/3 of the angels siding with lucifer to the earth thus cleansing heaven of sin (which is transgression of Gods Holy law). satan/lucifer then tempted Adam and Eve and thus the fall of mankind and introduction of sin into mankind and into the bloodline of mankind. Thus becoming our nature ... that is it is natural for us to disobey God than to obey Him.

2. If god is all powerful and everywhere at the same time, why doesn’t he sort satan out?

He has "sorted satan out" .... The plan of Salvation and enteral life sinless is in place, but has not yet been fully executed. This was accomplished through Jesus Christ. In love we choose Jesus ... or not. satan knows he has been defeated so in the meantime he creates as much havoc as possible.

3. Do you believe satan exists, really?

Yes, the Bible, being the Word of God. Yes satan exists. If one believes the Bible to not be the Word of God then they also do not believe satan exists.

4. Tell me more about how satan is supposed to operate, is it an entity, a singular being or more like god, being everywhere and anywhere it wants to be?

satan and his minions (1/3 fallen angels) operate in many different ways, some seen some not seen. He leads (influences) people away from how God would have us to live. He (satan) wants to be worshiped ... that is ... satan wants to be God.

"Of all the things theists believe I personally find the cobept of satan amongst the most unbelievable."

This is understandable from people who have not studied the Word of God in depth.

Studying Gods Word is a life long committment ... it can not be explained nor understood without in-depth study by each individual. All of mankind (each of us) are called to study it. Some do, some do not ... it's a choice. God does not force anyone to do anything. Everyone has choice. Freewill my friend, love. God is love.

God created us, loves us and wants a relationship with us based on love. We love Him because He first loved us.

The Bible teaches God is love and defines love as follows:

1 Corintians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

So this is who He is ^^^^

If you want to know God and His ways study the Bible, if not then don't. Everyone has the choice.

Currently the world is under the influence of satan and will continue to be until the Lord returns and fully executes His plan of salvation.

Just barely touched on a few things .... the Word of God is awesome, there is a lot to it!