Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[DaDad]

I believe the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, and Daniel were correct.

You don't?

No one buys ~a pair of shoes which cost 7 and 62 dollars plus tax~.​

My position is clear. Do you have a PRECEDENT, -- in ANY Scripture, or ANY Society? Or do you assume that the "translators" are the "Holy Spirit"/"Gabriel"/"Daniel"?

 

[jgr]

Please preface your assertion with ~you believe ...~.

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

Perhaps you need to find the SCRIPTURAL SOURCE for the "issuance of the word".

Thanks,
DaDad

Of course I believe it. I wouldn't have claimed it if I didn't.

The expression "issuance of the word" is not found in Scripture, so I can't comment on it.

I wonder what the word was. He insists it's "a word" so it could only be one word. Any idea what it was?

 

[jgr]

No one buys ~a pair of shoes which cost 7 and 62 dollars plus tax~.​

My position is clear. Do you have a PRECEDENT, -- in ANY Scripture, or ANY Society? Or do you assume that the "translators" are the "Holy Spirit"/"Gabriel"/"Daniel"?

It's in Hebrew. Check your Hebrew interlinear. The same words appear there.

Maybe your problem is that you're trying to talk English while the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, and Daniel were talking Hebrew.

 

[DaDad]

...
I wonder what the word was. He insists it's "a word" so it could only be one word. Any idea what it was?

Are we a little too concise. It's not ONE word, it's a DECLARATION. And yes, it's in SCRIPTURE. Imagine THAT.

DaDad

 

[mkgal1]

nvm

 

[DaDad]

It's in Hebrew. Check your Hebrew interlinear. The same words appear there.

Maybe your problem is that you're trying to talk English while the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, and Daniel were talking Hebrew.

Maybe the Hebrew sentence structure confuses your English Language mind. It's TWO durations, with TWO "anointed ones"; -- one after the "seven", and a second after the "sixty-two".

Otherwise PLEASE PROVIDE A PRECEDENT in ANY Scripture, or ANY Society for:

~a pair of shoes which cost 7 and 62 dollars plus tax~.​

RSV: 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing​

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[jgr]

Did you miss the statement: "the seventy weeks are PAST"?




Rev. 13 says: "let him who is wise". I thought everyone posting their views on this Forum had met that criteria. -- Strange.

Thanks,
DaDad

Yes, they certainly are past, with Messiah accomplishing everything He came to do.

Revelation 13 in the KJV says no such thing.

Revelation 13 is a whole chapter.

Are you using a translation that has only one verse saying "let him who is wise"? What translation is that?

 

[jgr]

Maybe the Hebrew sentence structure confuses your English Language mind. It's TWO durations, with TWO "anointed ones"; -- one after the "seven", and a second after the "sixty-two".

Otherwise PLEASE PROVIDE A PRECEDENT in ANY Scripture, or ANY Society for:

~a pair of shoes which cost 7 and 62 dollars plus tax~.​

RSV: 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. ​

Thanks,
DaDad

Neither the KJV nor the NASB nor the YLT, with the latter two particularly recognized for accuracy and literality, translate it thus.

Furthermore, more than twice as many of the approximately 50 English translations follow the KJV/NASB/YLT as follow the RSV.

Why do you use the fringe RSV?

 

[jgr]

Are we a little too concise. It's not ONE word, it's a DECLARATION. And yes, it's in SCRIPTURE. Imagine THAT.

DaDad

In the KJV, the word is "commandment". That does allow for a declaration. But your commentator changed it to "a word". So you better take him at his "word" (pun intentional).

 

[sparow]

There is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ.

Paul had to correct Peter over this issue in the Galatian church.


Gal_2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

As I have said, I do not use Paul; but there are a number of things I have noticed here. Peter was left in charge of the church, administrationally. Only Christ is teacher and only the Father has authority.

Paul's problems seem to be two fold first there were the old Jews who would not change and in Galatians the problem was people introducing a different Gospel; and Paul accuses Peter and others from the church in Jerusalem of doing that.

Galatians 2:11-13 (NKJV)
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

Galatians 1:8 (NKJV)
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

The men from Jerusalem including Peter are cursed.​

​

Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Where is it written?

Deuteronomy 27:26 (NKJV)
26 'Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law.' And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
Jeremiah 11:3-4 (NKJV)
3 and say to them, 'Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Cursed is the man who does not obey the words of this covenant
4 which I commanded your fathers in the day I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, 'Obey My voice, and do according to all that I command you; so shall you be My people, and I will be your God,'


It amazes me that anyone would take the word of Paul over the word of the Apostles who had a three and a half year apprenticeship under Christ.

Christ removed the curse that was on the house of Israel when He renewed the covenant with them but it still remains that the covenant has to be entered into.

It is true all in Christ are of one mind but Paul makes a lot of assumptions as to who it is who is in Christ. ​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken "first' to the house of Israel. Since 4 Passovers can be found in the New Testament, most Bible scholars believe the earthly ministry of Christ lasted about 3 1/2 years.)

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant found in Matthew 26:28.)


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
(Quoted from the promised of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. (Paul went up to see Peter about 3 years after his conversion.)

The Gospel was taken to the Jews "first" for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

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Where in dan 9 does it say this will happen in the 70th week?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Neither the word "antichrist", nor any implication of antichrist, appear in the passage.
The grammatical antecedents of the "he's" in verse 27 resolve back to Messiah.

When did messiah commit the abomination of desolation by placing an idol in the holy place in the middle of the 70th week?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Letter from Cyrus to governor Sisinnes and ruler Sathrabuzanes, leaders in Syria and Phenice, confirming authorization to rebuild the city as well as the temple.

“KING CYRUS TO SISINNES AND SATHRABUZANES SENDETH GREETING.
"I have given leave to as many of the Jews that dwell in my country as please to return to their own country, and to rebuild their city, and to build the temple of God at Jerusalem on the same place where it was before. I have also sent my treasurer Mithridates, and Zorobabel, the governor of the Jews, that they may lay the foundations of the temple, and may build it sixty cubits high, and of the same latitude, making three edifices of polished stones, and one of the wood of the country, and the same order extends to the altar whereon they offer sacrifices to God. I require also that the expenses for these things may be given out of my revenues. Moreover, I have also sent the vessels which king Nebuchadnezzar pillaged out of the temple, and have given them to Mithridates the treasurer, and to Zorobabel the governor of the Jews, that they may have them carried to Jerusalem, and may restore them to the temple of God. Now their number is as follows: Fifty chargers of gold, and five hundred of silver; forty Thericlean cups of gold, and five hundred of silver; fifty basons of gold, and five hundred of silver; thirty vessels for pouring [the drink-offerings], and three hundred of silver; thirty vials of gold, and two thousand four hundred of silver; with a thousand other large vessels.343 I permit them to have the same honor which they were used to have from their forefathers, as also for their small cattle, and for wine and oil, two hundred and five thousand and five hundred drachme; and for wheat flour, twenty thousand and five hundred artabae; and I give order that these expenses shall be given them out of the tributes due from Samaria. The priests shall also offer these sacrifices according to the laws of Moses in Jerusalem; and when they offer them, they shall pray to God for the preservation of the king and of his family, that the kingdom of Persia may continue. But my will is, that those who disobey these injunctions, and make them void, shall be hung upon a cross, and their substance brought into the king's treasury." And such was the import of this epistle. Now the number of those that came out of captivity to Jerusalem, were forty-two thousand four hundred and sixty-two.

Where is this found in scripture?

I already showed where cyrus only gave th command to rebuild the temple, when cyrus dies, they still had yet to rebuild the temple, darius had to confirm the command to restory syrus decree, to rebuild the temple. In no place was cyrus shown to give any command to restore the city

Why people ignore scripture is beyond me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

... and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate ...​

This is to say, that the a/c "shall come" after the seventy "weeks".
And history confirms this fulfillment.
Thanks,
DaDad

It does?

The ac has never came

And then ac is said to commit the abomination which makes desolate the most holy place (jesus words) in the middle of the week, which also has not occured yet

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The decree of Cyrus is the correct starting point for the 70 weeks.

In 1913, Martin Anstey released "The Romance of Bible Chronology", which calculated dates based exclusively on the contents of Scripture. His date for Cyrus' decree was 454 BC. Other calculations using similar methodology have ranged up to 457 BC, an acceptable margin of variance.

Anstey's calculations also revealed the error in the secular Ptolemaic chronology, which some attempt to use.

Beginning dates of 457 - 454 BC place the beginning of the 70th week at 26 - 29 AD, with Christ's crucifixion at 29.5 - 32.5 AD. These dates are within generally accepted ranges.

With proper datings and methodologies, there are no issues in ascertaining the details of the 70 weeks.

If artexerxes started his reign in 465 Bc, and gave the command to restore jerusalem in 445 bc, how did cyrus give a decree in 457BC when artexerxes was in power? Oh and anothe fact, he died in 530BC, how could give a command 70 years after he died?

 

[BABerean2]

Where in dan 9 does it say this will happen in the 70th week?

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.

Even if He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would rise from the dead during the 70th week.



Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
(Quoted from the promised of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

.

 

[claninja]

.daniel is told messiah will be after 69weeks

Daniel is told the messiah will be cut off after 69 weeks

2.the ot propet said messiah will be given or seen by jerusalem, entering on a donkey.

This is a different prophecy, which is from zechariah. it does not mention 69 weeks.

Sacrifice continued for another 4 decades, so jesus did not put an end of sacrifice.

So God still accepted the sacrifices of the Jews after Jesus' death?

Jesus was cut off, cut down, killed,

I agree

And i showed you the decree of cyrus, he gave the decree to rebuilt the temple, not the city,

Sorry but i must go by what the word says in who actually did it, by the decrees themselves,

Please read out loud to yourself the highlighted section of this passage in Isaiah:

Isaiah 44:28
who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd,
and he shall fulfill all my purpose’;
saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’
and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”

So is Isaiah a false prophet because you say Cyrus did not decree the city to be rebuilt and yet Isaiah prophecies that Cyrus will rebuild the city? who should I believe? you or scripture?

Again, if cyrus did it, then the 70weeks ended before jesus was born, so sorry but huge issues there

I suggest researching the issues with ptolemy's cannon for dating secular history.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.

Even if He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would rise from the dead during the 70th week.

So what your saying, is if you agree to paint my house after the 69th week, i have to wait at least 7 years before you start?

News flash, i will hire someone who will do it at the completion of the 69th week, i will not hire someone who does it after the 70th.

Forgive me, but may i ask where you come up with your ideas?

 

[A71]

When you consider John's ministry, you have to bear in mind that he baptized all of Israel. Not sure what the population was, but 1 million might be a conservative guess. So that must have taken quite a while

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel is told the messiah will be cut off after 69 weeks



This is a different prophecy, which is from zechariah. it does not mention 69 weeks.

It does not have to, all it has to do is tell us how Messiah will be introduced to his people. Which it does, Gabriel gives us when it will happen in Dan 9.

[quote

So God still accepted the sacrifices of the Jews after Jesus' death?
[/quote]

According to david god would not accept sacrifice from him to allow forgiveness of his two great sins, as Hebrews said, the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin, not to mention, if one thinks, the penalty for the high priest entering the Holy of Holy’s was death. They literally tied a rope to him in case they had to drag his body put, can you tell us how in the moment jesus die, the high priest entered the holy place to offer sacrifice, yet dis not get killed? In fact, when during the second temple did this happen?

I think it is prety clear the presence of god left the most hoy place along time ago,

Daniel 9 says this abomination will cause sacrifice in the temple to cease, period, he does not say it would stop the NEED for sacrifice, so saying that is it, is adding to the word.

An idol placed (or as jesus said, standing) in the holy place is what causes sacrifice to stop, because the holy place is made desolate (unclean)

I agree

Please read out loud to yourself the highlighted section of this passage in Isaiah:

Isaiah 44:28
who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd,
and he shall fulfill all my purpose’;
saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’
and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”

So is Isaiah a false prophet because you say Cyrus did not decree the city to be rebuilt and yet Isaiah prophecies that Cyrus will rebuild the city? who should I believe? you or scripture?

Please read the scripture account of the very events, and then show us where it says cyrus ever commanded isreal to rebuild the city?

Even darius, who came after cyrus, confirmed he ONLY gave the command to rebuild the temple.

I already showed the scripture where it says he only gave the command to rebuild the temple, rebuilding the temple does not fulfill Dan 9, no matter how hard you want it to be so,

I suggest researching the issues with ptolemy's cannon for dating secular history.

I suggest you look at the facts and stop trying to build a doctrine on things scripture does not say,

Isaiah did say cyrus would start the rebuilding of the city, he did, by starting the rebuilding of the temple, artexerxes finished what cyrus started by giving the command to restore jerusalem proper,