How do I ACTUALLY be saved?

[justbyfaith]

Also, the practical righteousness that Christ imparts to me (Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:7), is not my own. It is Christ living His life in me and through me, in practical ways (Galatians 2:20).

 

[justbyfaith]

The righteousness which is of God by faith is attested to by the law and the prophets that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21, Galatians 5:22-23, Galatians 3:14 w/ Romans 8:4, Romans 5:5 & Ephesians 3:19 w/ Romans 13:8-10, fulfilling Matthew 22:36-40).

 

[ladodgers6]

Is a person who is spiritually dead justified? YES or NO.

You keep asking this question, as if, I said this or suggested this. I am saying that the regenerating of the Holy Spirit does not justify us. Faith in Christ Alone justifies us, understand? Justification & Sanctification are distinct but not separate. If you conflate or confuse this, you distort and pervert the Gospel. You say you agree, but are quick to gloss over this and go to sanctification.

I do not deny that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. God says to the ungodly person who believes in Him, "You are righteous."

From there what must happen is that I begin to have a new identity in Christ, that cannot be changed even if I blow it and sin in the old fashion that I used to sin in. I am the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Therefore because my identity is that I am righteous in Him, the next step is for me to live like it. Thus justification and sanctification are inexplicably intertwined.

If I say, I am righteous in Him, but I am not a doer of righteousness, I am a liar (1 John 3:7, 1 John 2:3-4). The fact of my new identity in Christ means that I will live like my identity; in a righteous fashion.

Beware lest you be a hearer of the word only and not a doer (James 1:21-22). You would be deceiving yourself.

But earlier you did disagree with the imputed righteousness of Christ. You said that the obedience of the believer secures or maintains this justification. May I ask, why do you now, agree?

 

[justbyfaith]

You keep asking this question, as if, I said this or suggested this. I am saying that the regenerating of the Holy Spirit does not justify us. Faith in Christ Alone justifies us, understand? Justification & Sanctification are distinct but not separate. If you conflate or confuse this, you distort and pervert the Gospel. You say you agree, but are quick to gloss over this and go to sanctification.

That was not a YES or NO answer. I need you to clarify it with a YES or NO.

Again, can one be justified before God who is spiritually dead?

But earlier you did disagree with the imputed righteousness of Christ. You said that the obedience of the believer secures or maintains this justification. May I ask, why do you now, agree?

To say that righteousness is imparted is not to deny that it is also first imputed.

Also, you never really did answer my question about Romans 8:12-13.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Here a man's spiritual life or death is based on whether he walks according to the flesh or whether he walks according to the Spirit.

Can a man be justified who is spiritually dead? If not, then justification is in some sense based on whether a man is spiritually alive or not; and since this is based on whether we walk in the flesh or whether we walk in the Spirit (which has to do with behaviour), it follows that behaviour is in some way involved in our justification.

On the other hand, it is clear from scripture that a man is justified by righteousness being imputed to him through faith. I would have to say that these are opposite sides of the same coin; or a situation where you have two sticks held together by a rope, wherein the sticks are held apart from each other but the rope is held taut by the fact that there is tension between the doctrines.

I would point out again what I said earlier, that when righteousness is imputed to us, it gives us a new identity in Christ (that we are the righteousness of God in Him); and if the new identity be true, we will begin to live like our new identity, whether long time or short.

Therefore my justification and my sanctification are inexplicably intertwined.

So then, it is not that my obedience secures or maintains my justification; but that my justification maintains or secures my obedience.

In John 11:25-27 it is clear that whosoever lives and believes in Jesus shall never die; while the scripture at hand (Romans 8:12-13) tells us that if I live according to the flesh I will die. It follows that if I live and believe in Him I will not live according to the flesh. I hope you can see that this is the logical conclusion.

Therefore, since faith in Christ alone justifies us; and it is a given that if I have faith in Christ alone I will not live according to the flesh; it follows that if I do live according to the flesh I do not have faith in Christ alone and am therefore not justified.

 

[justbyfaith]

I hope you will forgive me if I seem to be contradicting myself anywhere. I am learning as I go.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think I need to clarify that biblically, repentance is a prerequisite to salvation. It is the 180-degree turn away from sin, and without it, walking according to the Spirit would be against my will.

 

[ladodgers6]

I hope you will forgive me if I seem to be contradicting myself anywhere. I am learning as I go.

No problem, we are sharing. I hope you will forgive me if I sound perplexing.

 

[ladodgers6]

I think I need to clarify that biblically, repentance is a prerequisite to salvation. It is the 180-degree turn away from sin, and without it, walking according to the Spirit would be against my will.

Can you expound further? Because as I said before, and the excerpt from Roger Nicole, we said that Justification of the sinner is a legal status before a Holy God, depended upon the sole merits of Christ Alone, not the moral improvement of the sinner, that save!

If you are locating your Salvation by your response of repentance in the Gospel, rather than locating your Salvation in the Gospel itself; who Jesus is and what He has done! Then you have a Salvation by works, and not a Salvation by Grace! I hope you are hearing me in what I am telling you.

Now Luther did say, that our Faith is a living Faith, in that it produces good deeds, repentance, kindness, patience, joy, love. But all this is the 'FRUIT', the result of our Salvation in Christ Alone, not the ground of it!

Hope this helps???

God Bless!

 

[justbyfaith]

No problem, we are sharing. I hope you will forgive me if I sound perplexing.

No, it isn't perplexing at all.

 

[justbyfaith]

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh unless they repent. God is not going to force me to walk according to the Spirit against my will. I must make a conscious decision to turn from the works of the flesh unto Christ and His righteousness which He will produce in me through the indwelling of His Spirit.

A man cannot be born again apart from surrendering his life to the Lord; and a man will not continue to live spiritually, once born again, unless he continues to mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit, and does not live according to his flesh...being born again means a changed heart...and life! There is a practical righteousness produced in the person who is saved...and God will not produce this against a man's will...he must repent of his sins in order to receive this righteousness.

My premise being that according to Romans 8:12-13 a man's spiritual life or death depends on whether he walks according to the flesh or whether he walks according to the Spirit. And the question of, can a man be justified who is spiritually dead? Because if he can not be, then walking according to the flesh will have an effect on whether I am justified or not. Because if I live according to the flesh, I will become spiritually dead, and therefore if I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead, then walking in the flesh will mean that I am not justified before the Lord, if I become spiritually dead because of walking in the flesh; because I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you are locating your Salvation by your response of repentance in the Gospel, rather than locating your Salvation in the Gospel itself; who Jesus is and what He has done! Then you have a Salvation by works, and not a Salvation by Grace! I hope you are hearing me in what I am telling you.

Looking at salvation by grace through faith, it ought to be clear that being saved by grace will have an effect on your behaviour, if you understand the context of Ephesians 2:8-9 (specifically, Ephesians 2:2-3).

 

[ladodgers6]

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh unless they repent. God is not going to force me to walk according to the Spirit against my will. I must make a conscious decision to turn from the works of the flesh unto Christ and His righteousness which He will produce in me through the indwelling of His Spirit.

A man cannot be born again apart from surrendering his life to the Lord; and a man will not continue to live spiritually, once born again, unless he continues to mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit, and does not live according to his flesh...being born again means a changed heart...and life! There is a practical righteousness produced in the person who is saved...and God will not produce this against a man's will...he must repent of his sins in order to receive this righteousness.

My premise being that according to Romans 8:12-13 a man's spiritual life and death depends on whether he walks according to the flesh or whether he walks according to the Spirit. And the question of, can a man be justified who is spiritually dead? Because if he can not be, then walking according to the flesh will have an effect on whether I am justified or not. Because if I live according to the flesh, I will become spiritually dead, and therefore if I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead, then walking in the flesh will mean that I am not justified before the Lord, if I become spiritually dead because of walking in the flesh; because I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead.

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather then the flesh unless they BELIEVE!

 

[ladodgers6]

Looking at salvation by grace through faith, it ought to be clear that being saved by grace will have an effect on your behaviour, if you understand the context of Ephesians 2:8-9 (specifically, Ephesians 2:2-3).

A course, God made us alive in Christ, who is OUR wisdom, OUR Justification, OUR Sanctification, OUR Redemption 1 Cor. 1:30

31so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

 

[justbyfaith]

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather then the flesh unless they BELIEVE!

I never said otherwise. Do you think that you are trying to convert me to faith in Christ?

Because I believe in Him wholeheartedly. He is my salvation to the full. His shed blood cleanses me from all sin; and His indwelling Spirit is the reason I am righteous in the practical sense...while I am justified solely by His shed blood.

 

[justbyfaith]

A course, God made us alive in Christ, who is OUR wisdom, OUR Justification, OUR Sanctification, OUR Redemption 1 Cor. 1:30

31so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Amen. He is my righteousness; which is also not impractical (1 John 3:7).

 

[justbyfaith]

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather then the flesh unless they BELIEVE!

No one will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh unless they repent. God is not going to force me to walk according to the Spirit against my will. I must make a conscious decision to turn from the works of the flesh unto Christ and His righteousness which He will produce in me through the indwelling of His Spirit.

A man cannot be born again apart from surrendering his life to the Lord; and a man will not continue to live spiritually, once born again, unless he continues to mortify the deeds of the body through the Spirit, and does not live according to his flesh...being born again means a changed heart...and life! There is a practical righteousness produced in the person who is saved...and God will not produce this against a man's will...he must repent of his sins in order to receive this righteousness.

My premise being that according to Romans 8:12-13 a man's spiritual life or death depends on whether he walks according to the flesh or whether he walks according to the Spirit. And the question of, can a man be justified who is spiritually dead? Because if he can not be, then walking according to the flesh will have an effect on whether I am justified or not. Because if I live according to the flesh, I will become spiritually dead, and therefore if I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead, then walking in the flesh will mean that I am not justified before the Lord, if I become spiritually dead because of walking in the flesh; because I cannot be justified as one who is spiritually dead.

 

[ladodgers6]

I never said otherwise. Do you think that you are trying to convert me to faith in Christ?

Because I believe in Him wholeheartedly. He is my salvation to the full. His shed blood cleanses me from all sin; and His indwelling Spirit is the reason I am righteous in the practical sense...while I am justified solely by His shed blood.

No Sir, I am only sharing. If I am being condescending please let me know, and I apologize in advance.
All I am saying is our works as believers are necessary, because we are alive in Christ and dead to sin. As Paul says in Romans 6. But these works as believers are not the cause of OUR Salvation, they are the effects of it, understand? Our Faith and Repentance is not the cause of OUR Salvation! Its the object of our Faith that saves us; namely Jesus Christ! Our Faith does not MAKE a bad doctor, a Great doctor! The only thing that saves sinners, is Christ Alone!

We do not make the Cross effective by OUR activity!

Do you believe in progressive Sanctification?

Hope this helps???

God Bless!

 

[justbyfaith]

Ephesians 2:2-3 (part of the context of Ephesians 2:8-9):

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Among whom we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[justbyfaith]

No Sir, I am only sharing. If I am being condescending please let me know, and I apologize in advance.
All I am saying is our works as believers are necessary, because we are alive in Christ and dead to sin. As Paul says in Romans 6. But these works as believers are not the cause of OUR Salvation, they are the effects of it, understand? Our Faith and Repentance is not the cause of OUR Salvation! Its the object of our Faith that saves us; namely Jesus Christ! Our Faith does not MAKE a bad doctor, a Great doctor! The only thing that saves sinners, is Christ Alone!

We do not make the Cross effective by OUR activity!

Do you believe in progressive Sanctification?

Hope this helps???

God Bless!

We must repent and turn to Christ in order to be saved. Without repentance no one will ever begin to walk according to the Spirit, for they are walking in the opposite direction. Can a man be justified who is walking in the direction of sin?

 

[ladodgers6]

Ephesians 2:2-3 (the context of Ephesians 2:8-9):

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Among whom we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as others.

This was the deprave plight a sinner was in, when God rescued him/her! I just LOVE Ephesians, don't you?

4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

One in Christ

Hope this help???

God Bless!