Are 'White Lies' ever okay?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How about this. My friend, a paramedic, arrived at the scene of a horrific accident with dead bodyś lying around a little boy, whom he knew aws going to die due to massive injuries, blood loss and shock before he could be transported. There was nothing to be done. He cuddled the terrified boy and the boy asked my friend, if he was going to die, he told him no, and hugged him till he bled to death in a few minutes.

Who was the boys neighbor ? My friend told a bold faced lie to him. While he was crying telling me about this, should I have told him that he was wrong and had exercised poor judgement ?

There probably are better words to use, instead of lying to a little child (as parents and older people called adults still often do and think it is okay).

Consider the thoughts , even of a little boy, if he realized in the last moments - shocked - "he lied to me! I am dying ! "

Instead of peace in the truth.

Yet as Jesus said of a little one already dead - "she is not dead, she is sleeping" ..... and so it gets into a very different topic/ thread that is not here and now....

 

[marineimaging]

I've been reading through former threads on lying, but those situations always seem life or death, like 'if I'm hiding fugitives is it okay to lie to the bad guys' kind of scenarios.

I've read some scripture that says to either tell the truth or be silent- but I had a situation recently where it was difficult to do either.

So say in a hypothetical situation, someone gets you a Christmas present that you already bought for yourself a few weeks ago. After Christmas, you haven't touched it and they ask you if you've used it yet- but you've used yours.

According to the scripture, you can either stay silent, which would be awkward and confusing, or you can tell the truth- no, and you won't use it because you bought it yourself.

The third option is a half-lie half-truth; you've used the item, but not the one they got for you.

Both biblical options have the potential to hurt the other person's feelings, which is why I'm struggling to come up with an answer for this.

Any opinions on this? I know the situation is small and somewhat silly, but that's when a lot of 'white lies' come around. I know white lies are still lying, but what would the correct option be when the truth can come off as hurtful?

"To be honest I had bought one just before Christmas so you can imagine the pickle I was in when I got yours. I don't know if I should have told you at that time but then I had an idea. The truth is that I like it so much, and I know that mine is going to eventually need to be replaced, so I am keeping it in new condition. Unless you want it, that is! I mean, I cherish our friendship (acquaintanceship..., which ever it is) a whole lot and wouldn't want to mess it up. That's why I am telling you the truth. I would hope you understand how important you are to me and obviously I like the "object" or I wouldn't have bought it myself. I look back now and see that we were on the same page. Hey, lets go get some coffee and talk some more."

I used to think that white lies were O.K. but then one lie leads to another and another until it is so easy to tell lies that you forget the truth yourself. Put your faith in God and trust that the outcome of telling the truth will be according to God's will, not your lies. I still catch myself now and then but when I do I feel so much better just telling the truth. In fact, my wife and I have this agreement. She loves to cook and is an AWESOME chef. But we agreed that anytime I don't like something to tell her right then because if I don't tell her, if I white lie and say it is so good, guess what. I am going to get it again, and again, and again. And she would be much more upset if she knew that she had been making something I really didn't like all those times. Honesty, with God at the helm, will keep you on course. (And not having to eat the bad tasting things of life.)

 

[Andrew77]

I've been reading through former threads on lying, but those situations always seem life or death, like 'if I'm hiding fugitives is it okay to lie to the bad guys' kind of scenarios.

I've read some scripture that says to either tell the truth or be silent- but I had a situation recently where it was difficult to do either.

So say in a hypothetical situation, someone gets you a Christmas present that you already bought for yourself a few weeks ago. After Christmas, you haven't touched it and they ask you if you've used it yet- but you've used yours.

According to the scripture, you can either stay silent, which would be awkward and confusing, or you can tell the truth- no, and you won't use it because you bought it yourself.

The third option is a half-lie half-truth; you've used the item, but not the one they got for you.

Both biblical options have the potential to hurt the other person's feelings, which is why I'm struggling to come up with an answer for this.

Any opinions on this? I know the situation is small and somewhat silly, but that's when a lot of 'white lies' come around. I know white lies are still lying, but what would the correct option be when the truth can come off as hurtful?

Ok, so I don't know if this is a man thing, or not, but I have never wondered if people used the gifts I gave them.

When I give someone a gift, I have always considered it.... a gift. It's now theirs to do with as they please, and I can barely think of any time, maybe one time in my life, where I asked someone if they used my gift.

You could toss my gift in the trash, donate it to charity, whatever. Wouldn't bother me. It's yours now. What you do with it, is up to you. That is what a 'gift' is. It's not still mine, and I want to know what you are doing with it.

So equally... I tell people the truth, if they ask. What did you do with my gift? "Well I have one like it already, so I haven't used it".

The one thing you might try.... and I have done this, is there are certain people that I simply know will ask what I've done with their gifts. When those people give me something, I immediately use the item one time. Doesn't matter what it is. If it's a shirt, I wear the shirt one day. If it's a toaster, I toast something once.

Then... when they ask, because I know they will.... I say "Yup, I used it".

Problem solved.

But as a general rule.... tell the truth.

Let's put all the rare unique situations aside. No matter how you cut it, people will respect you more, and give you more credibility in the long run, when they know you'll tell them the truth no matter what.

Your reputation as an individual, will be higher, and more respected, if you consistently tell the truth, even if it hurts someone's feelings.

I personally have had people come to me, simply because they knew I would tell them what I honestly think, even when they didn't like it.

You know the fundamental of being a Christian, is believing in Jesus. But what are the fundamentals of Jesus himself? I am the way... the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.

He is the truth. Truth is one of the core fundamentals he list for himself.

And I have found this to be true in my own life, that without truth, there is nothing.

Years ago I had an online friend, that I was chat with and play games with. Over time, I noticed that their story would change. They would say one thing, and then a few days later, say something completely different. After awhile, I noticed none of these things they were telling me added up. Finally I confronted them on it, and asked what was going on.

They explained to me that they were 'roll playing'. They were making up stuff. None of it was real, or what was real was mixed in with so much fiction, it was impossible to tell the difference between their made up reality, and the real one.

And that's when I found there was no point in talking to them, and the friendship ended. Because even if they said something as minor and irrelevant as "It's sunny here" or "I hate that it's raining again", I found myself wondering do they really mean that? Or is that sunny in their fantasy world? Do they actually not like the rain, or is this their role playing character?

I couldn't trust anything they said, to be real. And without truth.... there was nothing.

Be a person of truth. That's my advice.

 

[JojoM]

I've been reading through former threads on lying, but those situations always seem life or death, like 'if I'm hiding fugitives is it okay to lie to the bad guys' kind of scenarios.

I've read some scripture that says to either tell the truth or be silent- but I had a situation recently where it was difficult to do either.

So say in a hypothetical situation, someone gets you a Christmas present that you already bought for yourself a few weeks ago. After Christmas, you haven't touched it and they ask you if you've used it yet- but you've used yours.

According to the scripture, you can either stay silent, which would be awkward and confusing, or you can tell the truth- no, and you won't use it because you bought it yourself.

The third option is a half-lie half-truth; you've used the item, but not the one they got for you.

Both biblical options have the potential to hurt the other person's feelings, which is why I'm struggling to come up with an answer for this.

Any opinions on this? I know the situation is small and somewhat silly, but that's when a lot of 'white lies' come around. I know white lies are still lying, but what would the correct option be when the truth can come off as hurtful?

I always try to tell the truth no matter how petty it is about. Not because I’m scared I’ll be sent to hell because of it (Jesus has paid for all our sins) but the Bible teaches us that sinning can affect our lives in the world negatively and we do not want to cause ourselves avoidable sufferings because of them. Like someone here said, it is not a good habit to get into. First you make a white lie, then something a little bigger and before you know it, everyone is calling you a habitual liar already and nobody trusts you anymore.

However there are times when we fall short. When we have the chance to admit it and correct it, we should. But if we do not, we need to move on and know that our sins have already been paid for on the cross.

There have been times when in a casual conversation with someone, my husband for example, I tend to bend a story to make it more interesting and then later on, when I think about it, it becomes clearer to my conscience that I lied. So I’d be like “oh wait, sorry, I was lying. The dog didn’t really do that” or something like that.

I think when we stop ourselves from lying about petty things, it means that the bigger ones that have the power to change our lives negatively won’t have a chance to come in.

If I can’t stand lying about petty things, how much more can I not stand lying about things that actually matter.

 

[Dave L]

Did Rahab lie ?

Yes, in faith towards God.

 

[Dave L]

No argument for most cases you mean, I think,
but
didn't most believers in the first century
realize they were "martyrs" when they were immersed into Jesus' Name to Live His Life as He said -
they no longer even considered their own lives worth saving(did not draw back from being murdered) if it meant denying Jesus (they would and did die before becoming apostate or denying their faith in Jesus).

In the more 'spiritual' sense, Jesus own words,
a disciple must "die" to self, daily, to be His disciple ....

I think Peter learned much from denying Jesus (lying). And I think we should learn from his experience and never to do that. But whatever is not of faith is sin. And faith works by love. So if I can protect lives and lessen the sin of a culprit in faith, based on love, it would bother my conscience not to lie to protect others. The Ten Commandments is about curbing hatred. And about not lying to frame others for your own selfish ends. But as Paul says the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Dave L]

I see Godwin's Law takes effect early in the conversation

But scripture also justifies lying many times with a correct motive.

 

[Dave L]

Just a point of corret

Between facing man's wrath and God's, I think I'll tell the truth and risk having a guilty conscience because at the end of the day, it's God who you will face and everything happens for a reason and just like temptations ,God will never put you in a situation that's too much for you to handle

Thanks for sharing your convictions. But I think love can sort out what is right to do in a situation. As Paul says the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Saint Steven]

Moses was a murderer.
Imagine what it was like to receive the Ten Commandments when you yourself are a murderer.

Rahab was a prostitute.
She lied to protect the Israelite spies, which was treason.
This did not prevent her from inclusion in the lineage of Christ.

Matthew 1:5
Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, Obed the father of Jesse,

Hebrews 11:31
By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

James 2:25
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

 

[Martyr's Crown]

It seems that those who say never lie ,are doing just that ,but are unaware that they are doing so .
I just checked the 10 commandments .The NINETH says " Do not bear false witness against your neighbour ". Just that , no more .

When someone bears false witness against another person they are lying, they are making up something which isn't true about this person.

And considering about your statement about me lying, I really don't see it in my post. I have also posted for you in another post that part in Genesis about when Abram and Sarai came into Egypt, it was more Abram's concern and assumptions about how pharao would react when seeing Sarai, pharao got mad at him later for not having been honest about Sarai being his wife.

God is also Truth, He can't tolerate any lies.

 

[Saint Steven]

I think Peter learned much from denying Jesus (lying). And I think we should learn from his experience and never to do that. But whatever is not of faith is sin. And faith works by love. So if I can protect lives and lessen the sin of a culprit in faith, based on love, it would bother my conscience not to lie to protect others. The Ten Commandments is about curbing hatred. And about not lying to frame others for your own selfish ends. But as Paul says the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

I agree.
We are all put in situations constantly that require us to judge rightly as to what to do.
In some cases we need to protect certain interests with non-disclosure, or by answering in a way that does not put ourselves, or anyone else, in jeopardy.

However, we should not create a lifestyle of deception where we are constantly trying to cover for our previous lies. That takes a lot of energy and is flat out wrong.

It all gets back to motives.
Don't beat yourself up for doing the right thing. Even if that means "lying" on occasion in the best interests of others and your own privacy or rights.

The truth is always preferable to a lie, unless there are interests that need protection.
Like not betraying a confidence. If you vowed to keep something secret, you had better honor that vow. Lie if you have to.

 

[salt-n-light]

Can you show me where the bible says don't lie? Please don't grab "bearing false witness" because that is not the same and I can explain why if you need me to. Remember, Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife.

Now, I am not advocating lying folks... but if you are going to say "we can never lie" then I would suggest, especially if you are a parent, that you are already a liar. A lie is telling a untruth, and so if you lied to your child because the content of something they were about to see was beyond their years and you wanted to protect them from it... you still lied. If you told them Santa Claus was real, you lied. If you told them the zit on their face didn't look bad when you knew it did, you lied.

What if a Nazi came to your door almost 80 years ago and asked if you had Jews hiding in your basement? If you said no, when you did have them, you lied EVEN THOUGH the lie protected life because you knew the real question was, "are you hiding Jews we can kill?"

Uh it said liars are contrary to doctrine and are lawless.(1 timothy 1:10)

And that a lying tongue is an abomination to the Lord.( proverbs 12:22)

No there’s no “don’t lie”, but God gave us a brain to see that if he hates lying prophets and other liars in the Bible, and it speaks harshly against those that lie, if Abraham lie almost cost a couple of rulers their lives for having Sarah, if Saul lie resulted in God’s wrath, and if these and other scriptures do exist, safe to say that it’s not something that God is not pleased with.

But it tends to be a go-to that we often justify and don’t often directly see the consequences of.

It brings me back to one of the US shooting where the shooter asked in the class who was a Christian and shot those who stood. Would my lie been justifiable if I was to keep quiet and stayed in my seat? I don’t think so.

 

[Saint Steven]

… It brings me back to one of the US shooting where the shooter asked in the class who was a Christian and shot those who stood. Would my lie been justifiable if I was to keep quiet and stayed in my seat? I don’t think so.

This is a great example of how the enemy would like to use this against us.
"Hmm... I cannot tell a lie. Therefore I should bravely stand up and be murdered."

 

[DamianWarS]

But scripture also justifies lying many times with a correct motive.

I agree but we also need to understand the OT operates on a eastern honour/shame cultural system where showing honour is often valued over telling the absolute truth. A perfect example is Abraham saying his wife was his sister. Eastern ancient thinking does not speak their minds the same way as western and we must be carful not to superimpose western culture over some of these biblical behaviours.

 

[salt-n-light]

This is a great example of how the enemy would like to use this against us.
"Hmm... I cannot tell a lie. Therefore I should bravely stand up and be murdered."

Sounds similar to Peter when he denied Jesus for the sake of saving himself.

Guess the enemy told him to repent too.

 

[salt-n-light]

"To be honest I had bought one just before Christmas so you can imagine the pickle I was in when I got yours. I don't know if I should have told you at that time but then I had an idea. The truth is that I like it so much, and I know that mine is going to eventually need to be replaced, so I am keeping it in new condition. Unless you want it, that is! I mean, I cherish our friendship (acquaintanceship..., which ever it is) a whole lot and wouldn't want to mess it up. That's why I am telling you the truth. I would hope you understand how important you are to me and obviously I like the "object" or I wouldn't have bought it myself. I look back now and see that we were on the same page. Hey, lets go get some coffee and talk some more."

I used to think that white lies were O.K. but then one lie leads to another and another until it is so easy to tell lies that you forget the truth yourself. Put your faith in God and trust that the outcome of telling the truth will be according to God's will, not your lies. I still catch myself now and then but when I do I feel so much better just telling the truth. In fact, my wife and I have this agreement. She loves to cook and is an AWESOME chef. But we agreed that anytime I don't like something to tell her right then because if I don't tell her, if I white lie and say it is so good, guess what. I am going to get it again, and again, and again. And she would be much more upset if she knew that she had been making something I really didn't like all those times. Honesty, with God at the helm, will keep you on course. (And not having to eat the bad tasting things of life.)

Well said I find that when I lie, I don’t trust the outcome of the truth much less that God is still in charge of everything, whether good or bad outcome.

And it does become a vicious habit, in fact this post has lead me to pray and examine myself on it more.

We are all posting extreme cases of lying, but when it comes to day by day normal cases, there is no need to advocate lying. I don’t think anyone here had hid a foreigner for the sake of saving them, the example use is so small of an issue to justify the need to go to great lengths as to lie about it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Sounds similar to Peter when he denied Jesus for the sake of saving himself.

Guess the enemy told him to repent too.

That's an interesting point about Peter.
Do you remember what the result was about that?
I suppose Jesus wanted nothing to do with that liar after his betrayal, right?

Mark 16:6-7
“Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene,
who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.
7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee.
There you will see him, just as he told you.’”

 

[salt-n-light]

That's an interesting point about Peter.
Do you remember what the result was about that?
I suppose Jesus wanted nothing to do with that liar after his betrayal, right?

Mark 16:6-7
“Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene,
who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.
7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee.
There you will see him, just as he told you.’”

What kind of disciple would Peter be if he did not repent? If he wasn’t sorry and didn’t want to turn away from his ways ? If even after Jesus expose what He was gonna do, still justified it in his heart? Would he have been able to go front of Jesus and justify it in his face? Would Peter even be Peter without that experience? No, He wouldn’t.

 

[mama2one]

If you told them Santa Claus was real, you lied. "

there was a lot of discussion on adoption forums to not lie whatsoever to an adopted child because of establishing trust and bonding/attachment

so a lot of us AP's chose to not do the Santa thing

Santa vs no Santa thread on one adoption forum went on for pages!

 

[Ken Rank]

I can already tell you we are going to be at this all night, I will bring up all of my arguments and we will counter each other for hours and no progression at all would be made.

I know I am correct, and you know you are correct. God is outside of time, unfortunately I am not.. just going to end it here before I get sucked into it.
Much respect

Yes, you're correct... showing you commandments you think were given at Sinai BEFORE Sinai won't accomplish anything. And you're also correct... best not to waste time. Be blessed.