Matthew 25:46

[FineLinen]

MATTHEW.24 & 25 = 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” .......

25:37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

"My brethren" referred to the disciples/apostles of Christ, and not to every needy Tom, Dikk and Harry.
....... By extension, the unsaved goats are the Christian laity who do not financially support His pastors, missionaries, evangelists, etc. The saved sheep are the Christian laity who financially support His Church workers/laborers and the saved sheep can be considered as working for God by proxy. Not every Christian needs to be a pastor or missionary or evangelist.

In fact, there may be false Christians who only come to Church(es) to sell insurance, Amway products, homes/real estate, etc or to get a pretty virgin Christian girl as a wife or to be in an exclusive social club or etc.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[FineLinen]

Since Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world and "especially" of them that trust in Him/who believe, "My brethren/brothers" can actually be one that does not look like Him, but nonetheless is Him. As for the Amway distributor, they could be one of those who stand needing a drink and a visit.

 

[FineLinen]

It is all about the time of the hour and day not known to man -that is not the time of the great tribulation. Matthew 24 is clear - that is when heaven and earth shall pass away.

After the great tribulation is over, people will see Jesus Christ in the future and there will no longer be faith as in the time of the church.
People will be judged in other ways as to eternal life. At the end of our faith - as the church -will come salvation. We will not be judged as to whether we fed someone during the great tribulation. To gain food might require one to take the mark, which would doom their soul to the lake of fire in the future.

After the Gog war, and the world will be coming to an end, people that still alive will be a sheep or a goat as to how they treated His brethren -Israel.
the least of these - My brethren

clothe, fed, visited in prison
Not, told them the Gospel of Jesus Christ, - that time is no longer part of the church being gathered - as in those that keep the faith.
/not martyrs for Him - the righteous have not died since the time of the 7th trumpet resurrection of the just
then death that ends in victory was swallowed up
Jesus Christ gave us the victory!

Only the wicked people will die from then on, and some people will live to be very very old, then die as sinners.
infants will not die
Israel has returned to her land, rebuilds, then is attacked and gathers the plunder. The nations that remain must come to Jerusalem to worship the King and keep the feast of tabernacles. - year to year

 

[FineLinen]

Good grief! I will leave you with a thought for today. There is a wonderful word in koine ta pante, that word will be our word for today>>>>>>>>>>>

"From Him the all/ta pante comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

Think on it my friend!

 

[FineLinen]

There is no such thing as "goat nations" and "sheep nations". In Matthew 25:31-46, all of the nations are gathered, and then people are split into two groups: sheep and goats.

The sheep are those who fed etc a child of God (ie: someone saved) because all the saved are One (the body of Christ) and so are Christ as well....which means to feed any is to feed Christ.

The goats are those who refused to feed etc a child of God, and by so refusing they refused to feed etc Christ.

The feeding extends far beyond the "body of Christ" to every last broken wreck in Adam1. Keep your vision open to see Him today where you walk!

 

[Inkfingers]

The feeding extends far beyond the "body of Christ" to every last broken wreck in Adam1. Keep your vision open to see Him today where you walk!

The measure in that judgement is in who feeds etc Christ's brothers and who does not.

Christ's brothers are set out in Matthew 12:46-50 as being "those who do the will of God".

It is not everybody or just anybody. It is specifically speaking about feeding etc the saved. Those who John speaks of as becoming Children of God (John 1:12) who are not born that way but who God makes that way (John 1:13 John 3:3). And they are few in number (Matthew 22:14 Matthew 7:14).

 

[discipler7]

MATTHEW.25:40 = 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

.

Since Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world and "especially" of them that trust in Him/who believe, "My brethren/brothers" can actually be one that does not look like Him, but nonetheless is Him. As for the Amway distributor, they could be one of those who stand needing a drink and a visit.

Not true.

MATTHEW.28:9-10 = The Women Worship the Risen Lord
9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me.”

 

[FineLinen]

The measure in that judgement is in who feeds etc Christ's brothers and who does not.

Christ's brothers are set out in Matthew 12:46-50 as being "those who do the will of God".

It is not everybody or just anybody. It is specifically speaking about feeding etc the saved. Those who John speaks of as becoming Children of God (John 1:12) who are not born that way but who God makes that way (John 1:13 John 3:3). And they are few in number (Matthew 22:14 Matthew 7:14).

I am well aware of the Son of God's brothers/brethren, who not only do the will of God, but have progressed a little further to becoming the will of God. I have zero problem with the "household of faith" and appreciate your thoughts regarding them, but you must enlarge your vision a mite. Today as you head into your little world, look for the Son of God seeking a drink, a bite or a visit.. And I am not speaking of works!

 

[FineLinen]

.
Not true.

MATTHEW.28:9-10 = The Women Worship the Risen Lord
9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me.”

An

The measure in that judgement is in who feeds etc Christ's brothers and who does not.

Christ's brothers are set out in Matthew 12:46-50 as being "those who do the will of God".

It is not everybody or just anybody. It is specifically speaking about feeding etc the saved. Those who John speaks of as becoming Children of God (John 1:12) who are not born that way but who God makes that way (John 1:13 John 3:3). And they are few in number (Matthew 22:14 Matthew 7:14).

 

[amariselle]

Qualifications for everlasting life=

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Qualifications for everlasting punishment=

42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;

43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.

Note: Jesus Christ mentions nothing in this parable of sin, iniquity, disobedience or not trusting in Him. The qualifications (according to the context of St. Matthew 25) are those mentioned & only those.

Can we then base "everlasting life" or "everlasting punishment" on the statements of Christ in this parable.? Yes

Is the word "everlasting" (aionios) equal for "sheep & "goats". Yes

Does God punish as the final objective (an end in itself)? No

I do agree with you, my patient friend, no nation is exclusively a "goat" nor a "sheep." In every nation there are a remnant of grace who walk with Him. What Jesus Christ means regarding feeding Him, clothing Him, giving Him to drink, & visiting Him in prison is the question that all of us must understand. One thing for me is certain: the Father of all fathers always has an objective in view with His punishment & it is not an end in itself. Furthermore aionios life & aionios punishment is not aidios life or punishment. "Aionios" has a scope of ages, "aidios" is the only word in Scripture meaning eternal and found in only 2 verses of Scripture, both centered in the "aidios" God.

So, do you believe that good works are necessary for salvation?

 

[FineLinen]

An

Nonsense! The scope goes beyond My brethren to "strangers" but have it your own way!

Let's change the focus a mite. Assuming you accept the Master's words in St. Matthew 25, I assume you believe in unending "punishment" as an end in itself. If so, the basis of said "punishment" is being wicked, not accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour, iniquity, being a fallen unrepentant sinner etc. What my friend requires the Lord to inflict unending punishment for ever and ever? That would be what?
Matthew 25 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
25 `Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom;

2 and five of them were prudent, and five foolish;

3 they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil;

4 and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps.

5 `And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping,

6 and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him.

7 `Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps,

8 and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;

9 and the prudent answered, saying -- Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves.

10 `And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut;

11 and afterwards come also do the rest of the virgins, saying, Sir, sir, open to us;

12 and he answering said, Verily I say to you, I have not known you.

13 `Watch therefore, for ye have not known the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man doth come.

14 `For -- as a man going abroad did call his own servants, and did deliver to them his substance,

15 and to one he gave five talents, and to another two, and to another one, to each according to his several ability, went abroad immediately.

16 `And he who did receive the five talents, having gone, wrought with them, and made other five talents;

17 in like manner also he who [received] the two, he gained, also he, other two;

18 and he who did receive the one, having gone away, digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 `And after a long time cometh the lord of those servants, and taketh reckoning with them;

20 and he who did receive the five talents having come, brought other five talents, saying, `Sir, five talents thou didst deliver to me; lo, other five talents did I gain besides them.

21 `And his lord said to him, Well done, servant, good and faithful, over a few things thou wast faithful, over many things I will set thee; enter into the joy of thy lord.

22 `And he who also did receive the two talents having come, said, Sir, two talents thou didst deliver to me; lo, other two talents I did gain besides them.

23 `His lord said to him, Well done, servant, good and faithful, over a few things thou wast faithful, over many things I will set thee; enter into the joy of thy lord.

24 `And he also who hath received the one talent having come, said, Sir, I knew thee, that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou didst not sow, and gathering from whence thou didst not scatter;

25 and having been afraid, having gone away, I hid thy talent in the earth; lo, thou hast thine own!

26 `And his lord answering said to him, Evil servant, and slothful, thou hadst known that I reap where I did not sow, and I gather whence I did not scatter!

27 it behoved thee then to put my money to the money-lenders, and having come I had received mine own with increase.

28 `Take therefore from him the talent, and give to him having the ten talents,

29 for to every one having shall be given, and he shall have overabundance, and from him who is not having, even that which he hath shall be taken from him;

30 and the unprofitable servant cast ye forth to the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

31 `And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;

32 and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,

33 and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left.

34 `Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

35 for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;

36 naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.

37 `Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?

38 and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around?

39 and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?

40 `And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did [it].

41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;

43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.

44 `Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?

45 `Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.

46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

 

[FineLinen]

So, do you believe that good works are necessary for salvation?

Are you kidding? The works of man will prevail for shorter time than the period at the end of this sentence. There is exactly one way into the Presence, only one, prevenient grace!

 

[amariselle]

Are you kidding? The works of man will prevail for shorter time than the period at the end of this sentence. There is exactly one way into the Presence, only one, prevenient grace!

It was an honest question asked because of this post:

Qualifications for everlasting life=

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

So, based on the above, is it your belief that if one does not do these things, one will not receive everlasting life?

 

[FineLinen]

It was an honest question asked because of this post:



So, based on the above, is it your belief that if one does not do these things, one will not receive everlasting life?

 

[FineLinen]

What I am trying to articulate: The passage of Matt. 25 is one of the foundational passages of fundamentalist Christians for unending "punishment', not punishment by a Father who loves all of us even before prevenient grace is realized in being born anew. Our Father punishes us because He is good, and as the Father of all fathers of calibre, will have a creation made in His exact image of righteousness. Punishment has one purpose in Him, change and transformation! If one insists "everlasting punishment" on the basis of the Lord Jesus Christ words in Matt.25, fine, but you had best give the reasons behind what He declares in parable. I will not get into aionios or olam at this point, but doubtless we will approach that in due time.

Unlike some posters who imagine they understand what the Master is declaring in this declaration regarding food, drink, and visits; I confess much of it evades my old frame and an experience that is over 60 years old in Him. I believe disciples still need to have their understanding "opened" by the Holy Ghost!

 

[discipler7]

Let's change the focus a mite. Assuming you accept the Master's words in St. Matthew 25, I assume you believe in unending "punishment" as an end in itself. If so, the basis of said "punishment" is being wicked, not accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour, iniquity, being a fallen unrepentant sinner etc. What my friend requires the Lord to inflict unending punishment for ever and ever? That would be what?

1CORINTHIANS.5:1-5 = Immorality Defiles the Church
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed.

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

LUKE.23:39-43 = 39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

In theory, even though an unrepentant Christian sinner/evildoer/law-breaker's flesh will likely soon be destroyed by Satan, as long as the Christian does not stop believing or lose faith in Jesus Christ or renounce the faith or depart from the faith or blaspheme Jesus Christ/God(eg curse God/Jesus and die - JOB.2:9), he/she would still be saved from hell when he/she dies, as per the eternal promise of God at JOHN.3:16 = For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Of course, Christians should be discouraged from foolishly doing the above, ie while suffering for their sins, risk losing their salvation by stop believing or lose faith in Jesus Christ or etc.

 

[amariselle]

What I am trying to articulate: The passage of Matt. 25 is one of the foundational passages of fundamentalist Christians for unending "punishment', not punishment by a Father who loves all of us even before prevenient grace is realized in being born anew. Our Father punishes us because He is good, and as the Father of all fathers of calibre, will have a creation made in His exact image of righteousness. Punishment has one purpose in Him, change and transformation! If one insists "everlasting punishment" on the basis of the Lord Jesus Christ words in Matt.25, fine, but you had best give the reasons behind what He declares in parable. I will not get into aionios or olam at this point, but doubtless we will approach that in due time.

Unlike some posters who imagine they understand what the Master is declaring in this declaration regarding food, drink, and visits; I confess much of it evades my old frame and an experience that is over 60 years old in Him. I believe disciples still need to have their understanding "opened" by the Holy Ghost!

So, your intent in starting this thread was to discuss Hell/the “lake of fire” and whether or not damnation is eternal torment?

 

[FineLinen]

1CORINTHIANS.5:1-5 = Immorality Defiles the Church

You do realize we are only discussing the words of Jesus Christ (in parable), and ONLY the context of those words! If you want to take us on a tour of the entire New Covenant Scriptures start a link and I will consider responding. One last time: >>>>>>>>>>

According to the context of Matthew 25 Jesus Christ reveals the basis for "everlasting life" & "everlasting punishment"

The basis=

 

[FineLinen]

So, your intent in starting this thread was to discuss Hell/the “lake of fire” and whether or not damnation is eternal torment?

Not at all! There are other links to address those areas. In the passage under consideration the word is "everlasting punishment" not "eternal torment". Let us stay strictly focused on the passage!