Some Evangelical Leaders Speaking Out Against Separating Child/Parent Migrates

[camille70]

But those who respond this way have previously argued against mixing religion and politics, against using the Bible to justify public policy, etc. and have lampooned those whom they accuse of doing that. Now, however, it is apparently OK with these same people when they, themselves, mix religion and politics, etc. etc.

The conservative Christians, OTOH, are NOT similarly hypocritical.

Had Sessions not brought Romans 13 into it, the nation would not be getting a bible lesson on every news show.

 

[Albion]

Had Sessions not brought Romans 13 into it, the nation would not be getting a bible lesson on every news show.

Maybe, and maybe not, but it doesn't change a thing I've pointed to in the previous posts.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I agree. If the parents are detained then the children should be placed in care. Once the parents are adjudicated and shipped back home they should have the oprltion of taking their kids it leaving them. I can't figure out how it is possibly legal to force the kids to stay. I am honestly wondering if this is really true.

If it was legal, Sessions would most likely have put forth a legal argument... instead he invoked the Bible, making this a holy endeavor -- not to be questioned.

 

[TLK Valentine]

But those who respond this way have previously argued against mixing religion and politics, against using the Bible to justify public policy, etc. and have lampooned those whom they accuse of doing that. Now, however, it is apparently OK with these same people when they, themselves, mix religion and politics, etc. etc.

Now that religion and politics are inexorably linked by the administration, those previous lampoonings are now moot.

This is the state of our government now... all they do is blessed and holy because they do it with Biblical sanction.

The conservative Christians, OTOH, are NOT similarly hypocritical.

Hypocritical? No... but by speaking against the government, they get to be simultaneously treasonous and blasphemous. Fun, eh?

 

[rambot]

The quackery of Sessions using a quote that becomes wholey ignored when a democrat sits in the white house is inexcusable.

The only justification for "we should be holding kids in giant warehouses" is "Hey man....we're the govt. Shut up and let us do what we want because God gave us this power"?

Trump supporters just seem to have no idea... I just don't understand.

 

[2tim_215]

Great example we're setting for other nations and non Christians. Is this our testimony to the rest of the world now Mr. Magoo? Oh Magoo, you've done it again.

 

[rjs330]

If it was legal, Sessions would most likely have put forth a legal argument... instead he invoked the Bible, making this a holy endeavor -- not to be questioned.

He is not making it a holy endeavor. Because Romans 13 is about obeying the laws. If he is using it to hold Illegals accountable then it's entirely appropriate. If he is using it to BREAK the law it's not. That's why I asked if it was legal to force the kids to stay. Is it legal to do so?

It appears to me you are twisting Sessions words. AND twisting the intent. He did not say it was legal to force kids to stay and didn't use the Bible to defend that He said it was biblical to enforce the immigration laws. Two totally different things.

 

[Stormy]

LISTEN DEMOCRATS!

No one is forcing these parents to break our immigration laws. They do not want to work to improve their own country instead they try to come here illegally! Their children do not belong in jail! The parents do belong in jail! So of course they are separated!
Duh..... Its not that complicated!

Now call your congressmen and tell them to vote yes to fix our immigration problems. Quit complaining and start making a difference!

On the off chance that you are just using the kids to boost democrats in the midterm? Fail

 

[AllButNone]

The family is divided because of the criminal conduct of the person. They violated a law, you understand? They committed a crime. Committing a crime comes with risks, one risk is being charged and detained. NONE of this happens without a criminal act by a criminal actor. Hence, the person acting criminally is to blame.

Your argument is a wreck of irrationality and fueled by nothing but emotion and pity.

Probably not the best thing to say in a post devoted to begging the question. "The person is a criminal, they committed a crime, hence the criminal is to blame." C'mon...

I like what you did. You poisoned the well with the “needlessly harsh” phrase. Tantamount to the, “Have you stopped beating your wife,” phrase.

I reject your assumption of “needlessly harsh.” That needs to be demonstrated, not assumed.

He didn't poison the well. The whole premise of this thread is that discretion is being abused. While it's fair of you to disagree with that premise, Iluvator is just restating that premise and pointing out that your argument doesn't actually make a case for or against prosecutorial leniency.

Look, you're certainly within your right to believe that anything done within the bounds of the law is justified. But the real question here is whether that should be the case. I've seen you make a lot of interesting points in other threads. Why do you believe, in this case, that this should be prosecuted to a greater extant? My understanding here is that the crimes committed are misdemeanors, not felonies. Do you believe prosecutors are always justified, as long as they're operating with the bounds of the law? (genuine questions)

 

[rjs330]

The quackery of Sessions using a quote that becomes wholey ignored when a democrat sits in the white house is inexcusable.

The only justification for "we should be holding kids in giant warehouses" is "Hey man....we're the govt. Shut up and let us do what we want because God gave us this power"?

Trump supporters just seem to have no idea... I just don't understand.

Where should we be holding the kids whose parents are breaking the law?

The quackery of Sessions using a quote that becomes wholey ignored when a democrat sits in the white house is inexcusable.

The only justification for "we should be holding kids in giant warehouses" is "Hey man....we're the govt. Shut up and let us do what we want because God gave us this power"?

Trump supporters just seem to have no idea... I just don't understand.

This seems like a reasonable solution. I figured the current situation would only be temporary and it appears so.

The Trump Administration Is Preparing to Hold Migrant Children on Military Bases

 

[rambot]

He is not making it a holy endeavor. Because Romans 13 is about obeying the laws.

Catagorically convenient interpretation of that piece of scripture.

A little piece from that verse:

Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

[my italics]
Romans 13 is about obeying rulers and people; NOT about obeying specific rules.

 

[rambot]

Where should we be holding the kids whose parents are breaking the law?

Where do you hold American kids whose parents break the law? I think they deserve the EXACT same treatment as American children. Do you believe because they are migrants that they don't deserve the same treatment?

That is, with relatives OR in the CDS. And if CDS can't handle that kinda of influx, then they need more funding. Or thye need to work with the confines of their spending budgets until such time as they create a more humane way of dealing with families breaking the law.

 

[camille70]

LISTEN DEMOCRATS!

No one is forcing these parents to break our immigration laws. They do not want to work to improve their own country instead they try to come here illegally! Their children do not belong in jail! The parents do belong in jail! So of course they are separated!
Duh..... Its not that complicated!

Now call your congressmen and tell them to vote yes to fix our immigration problems. Quit complaining and start making a difference!

On the off chance that you are just using the kids to boost democrats in the midterm? Fail

The democrats are using a problem the Trump administration created and can stop at anytime to boost dems in the midterms? That's rich. That would have required dems to plan this or direct what Sessions was going to do before it was announced. They chose this. The GOP controls the house, the senate and the presidency. There have been several immigration bills, but the GOP has blocked them. Dems can't even bring a bill to the floor without GOP approval. Nice try tho.

 

[rjs330]

The quackery of Sessions using a quote that becomes wholey ignored when a democrat sits in the white house is inexcusable.

The only justification for "we should be holding kids in giant warehouses" is "Hey man....we're the govt. Shut up and let us do what we want because God gave us this power"?

Trump supporters just seem to have no idea... I just don't understand.

Also I was wondering if you had an immediate solution to where we place the kids whose parents are in jail?

 

[rjs330]

Where do you hold American kids whose parents break the law? I think they deserve the EXACT same treatment as American children. Do you believe because they are migrants that they don't deserve the same treatment?

That is, with relatives OR in the CDS. And if CDS can't handle that kinda of influx, then they need more funding. Or thye need to work with the confines of their spending budgets until such time as they create a more humane way of dealing with families breaking the law.

Right I agree. There's a couple of problems though.

1. These kids don't have relatives to put them with. If they do, that's where they will go.
2. The HHS doesn't have the resources for all the kids or enough foster parents for them.

So they HAVE to do something with the kids in the mean time. We are not going to toss the kids into jail with their parents. So, they go somewhere where they can be held until something else is done. These kids are not being starved, they are being taken care of.

 

[Tutorman]

More guilt and emotional manipulation from the open borders crowd. Don't be manipulated. Most could care less about the children. They only want to bash Trump.

Exactly, the parents are the abusers and should pay for their crime

 

[Albion]

The GOP controls the house, the senate and the presidency. There have been several immigration bills, but the GOP has blocked them. Dems can't even bring a bill to the floor without GOP approval. Nice try tho.

Where you are wrong is that the Dems have not attempted a solution. They have grandstanded all through the various attempts to find a solution, but when they insist upon having a "poison pill" included in the legislation, or to omit essential parts of any settlement, it is not the fault of the GOP.

 

[TLK Valentine]

He is not making it a holy endeavor. Because Romans 13 is about obeying the laws. If he is using it to hold Illegals accountable then it's entirely appropriate.

More than appropriate -- holy. The government are the ones who dictate what is or isn't legal, and what they do is sanctioned by God. Sessions said so himself.

If he is using it to BREAK the law it's not.

And who holds the government accountable when their behavior is morally reprehensible?

God? Not likely -- He's on Team Donald now.

That's why I asked if it was legal to force the kids to stay. Is it legal to do so?

Sessions could have cited statute or case law if he believed it to be relevant. He chose the Bible instead.

It appears to me you are twisting Sessions words. AND twisting the intent. He did not say it was legal to force kids to stay and didn't use the Bible to defend that He said it was biblical to enforce the immigration laws. Two totally different things.

He used the Bible to justify the government's actions when nothing else would do... fall for it this time, and you can expect him to do it some more.

 

[Stormy]

Beware Democrats, you not only need worry about Republicans. Independents, of which I am one, are growing in numbers. We do not cling to party instead we choose wisely. So we watch while you attack and the Republicans achieve.

Democrats have nothing but complaints. Our country is doing very well and the Republicans are working on immigration.

Trump is not one to kick the can down the road... Like past administrations. Trump is a problem solver and he has set out the 4 pillars of an immigration plan that he would sign.

Both bills coming to congress contain these 4 pillars. It may be this week or Ryan may need another week or so, but it will happen .
Trump will have another win. Time for democrats to get on the right side of history. We can do this

 

[rjs330]

More than appropriate -- holy. The government are the ones who dictate what is or isn't legal, and what they do is sanctioned by God. Sessions said so himself.



And who holds the government accountable when their behavior is morally reprehensible?

God? Not likely -- He's on Team Donald now.



Sessions could have cited statute or case law if he believed it to be relevant. He chose the Bible instead.




He used the Bible to justify the government's actions when nothing else would do... fall for it this time, and you can expect him to do it some more.

Yes, the government IS sanctioned by God as the Bible says. You can't argue with that. That includes Obama when he was in office .And we are to obey those laws as long as they do not go against God's laws. Then we obey God rather than man. In this case Immigration law does not violate Gofs law. And God was on the side of Team Obama when he was in office.

If the government violates God's law we are not required to obey.

So what if he quoted the Bible. Nothing wrong at all with that, unless you are somehow trying to quote scripture in order to violate scripture. It's wierd but I've seen that too. Like in the south to justify racism way back when. Scripture twisting is an art to some folks. In this case it's pretty clear. No twisting needed.