Is the rapture a lie?

[seventysevens]

Christ never said that a group of people would be taken away from tribulation, then kept somewhere safe, then going back to Earth with Him to get everyone else, and then setting up Jerusalem on Earth.

The doctrine is a morphology of several doctrine taken out of context about resurrection, and various input from men. Believe it at your own risk. I am aligned.

You are aligned with malignant nonsense and not truth which is why you cannot refute it you just complain

 

[Marvin Knox]

For pretribbers, the Rapture is about getting rid of Christians so God can focus on "his people", the Jews.

Gathering His Bride to Himself and protecting her from the wrath to come is hardly "getting rid of her".

And I know of no pre-trib proponent who teaches that only Jews will be saved
during the tribulation.

 

[seventysevens]

Doesn't the Bible imply the end times will come when few even remember the name of Christ, or his teachings? And that's why the Antichrist will so easily take over?

Also when has God ever implied Christians are to be free of suffering? After all the early Church did endure persecution.


Can you give a patristic quote to substantiate your claim that the early church believed in the rapture?

Again you do not read nor understand the difference between , tribulation and a very specific time called the great tribulation
where Jesus said that if he did not cut it short no living beings would be left alive on all of earth - but for the sake of the elect - the Jews who repent and accept Jesus as Lord Jesus cuts the time short - but you have not studied so you do not understand

 

[Randy777]

In the Book of Acts by Luke, a companion of Paul, it was written:

Acts 1:9 (World English Bible - Public Domain) When he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up, and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 While they were looking steadfastly into the sky as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white clothing, 11 who also said, “You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky.”

I expect one return of Jesus. I do not hold to the teachings in Revelation of a millennial reign with Satan kept as a prisoner in a pit for a thousand years, only to be unleashed again for a time of tribulation and then a second judgement.

I expect only one return of Jesus and do follow the timeline as found in REV. premil posttrib

 

[Ron Gurley]

A. Begin Matthew 24 {7 year "tribulation"} = Only the Father Knows the time (verse 36)
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
{the second coming}
44 For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Second Coming:
Matthew 24: 29-31
Rev. 19:11-16

The Precious Promise:
John 14:
3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN and receive you to Myself,
that where I am, there you may be also.

B. SIMULTANEOUSLY:
1 Thess. 4: 13-18
1 Corinthians 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.(spirit bodies)

the resurrection of dead in Christ: 1 Thess. 4: 13-18; John 5:25-30

the rapture, the snatching of the Church: 1 Thess. 4: 13-18 (mid-tribulation=3.5 years)

the reunion of saints, meet in midair / heaven with Jesus; 1 Thess. 4: 13-18

C. the removal of God the Holy Spirit:
2 Thessalonians 2:
6 And you know what (Who) restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth
and bring to an end by the appearance of His (Second) coming

D. all the above simultaneous and instantly in man-time

ALL after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ENDED.

=======

Possible Time Line BUILT on Matthew 24:

1. Begin the birth of the "Church Age" of Grace...Pentecost...Acts 1 + 2

2. Jesus promises to be with us in Spirit until the "end of the age" Matthew 28 end

...ascends/descends from the Mount of Olives...Matt 20:20; Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11

3. Pre-Tribulation "Birth Pangs"...NOW!...Matthew 24: 4-8

4. Begin TRIBULATION...first 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years
...rise of the anti-christ + REBUILD the TEMPLE! = his appearance in that TEMPLE...Matthew 24:9-20,22

...>WHEN it begins? TIME Unknown!<...

5. Rapture and Second Coming...finally to a throne in Jerusalem as King of Kings . Revelation 20:6

6. Begin GREAT TRIBULATION...Last 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years...leading up to Armageddon...Matthew 24:21-27

7. Begin the Millenium Reign...Satan Bound...Revelation 20

8. Planet Earth and unsaved wicked inhabitants destroyed by fire. 2 Peter 3

8. New Heavens + New Earth + New Jerusalem = eternal spiritual realm...Revelation 21

 

[Hank77]

You have a most difficult time comprehending what you read
Paul taught it and Jesus spoke of it - but it ONLY read ONLY applies to people who have accepted Jesus as Lord PRIOR TO the GT
the deception you have fallen for is believing what men teach when it opposes what scripture teaches
Everyone has tribulation in life - but that is not what the Great Trib is -as it is the worst testing trial that mankind will ever endure at Jesus command because it is for those who refuse to repentant - but since you refuse to study you have become blind to the truth
If you study the WORD and not simply accept what men are saying you would know what is true - you don't know because you are not studying the WORD of God

If you read Matthew 24 without any preconceived ideas, not accepting what men are saying, you just might see that the great tribulation referred to fell on the Jews at Pentecost when the city was surrounded by the Roman army in 70 AD. It was worse than the Holocaust.

 

[Hank77]

where Jesus said that if he did not cut it short no living beings would be left alive on all of earth

Which verse says there would be no living beings left alive on all the earth?
Please quote the scripture.

 

[seventysevens]

If you read Matthew 24 without any preconceived ideas, not accepting what men are saying, you just might see that the great tribulation referred to fell on the Jews at Pentecost when the city was surrounded by the Roman army in 70 AD. It was worse than the Holocaust.

No it does not , not at all as Jesus makes it very clear that it happens right before His return

 

[seventysevens]

Which verse says there would be no living beings left alive on all the earth?
Please quote the scripture.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

no flesh means , no people and no animals - you need to consider the destruction that is happening

 

[Hank77]

No it does not , not at all as Jesus makes it very clear that it happens right before His return

Prove it with scripture, please.

 

[Hank77]

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

no flesh means , no people and no animals - you need to consider the destruction that is happening

No flesh where? It doesn't say on the whole earth, does it?

 

[seventysevens]

Prove it with scripture, please.

From verse 3 to the rest of the chapter

And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Jesus begins to describe the things and events that lead up to His return


21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

 

[Hank77]

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

Who is the 'you' in this verse?

 

[seventysevens]

Who is the 'you' in this verse?

Who is it that is in verse

And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[Marvin Knox]

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
no flesh means , no people and no animals - you need to consider the destruction that is happening

No flesh where? It doesn't say on the whole earth, does it?

Yeah rightttttt?

Maybe the Lord was just referring to the flesh in the petting zoo in Beijing?

 

[Hank77]

Yeah rightttttt?

Maybe the Lord was just referring to the flesh in the petting zoo in Beijing?

It seems to me that if we keep it in context it would be referring to the 'land' of a nation made up of tribes.

Who did Jesus tell to flee to the mountains?

In fact, rather than going back and forth, here is the link to Gill's and Clarke's commentaries.
Gill was a Calvinist and Clarke a Methodist.
Then maybe you would want to comment about their views as these are closely inline with mine.

Matthew 24 Gill's Exposition
Matthew 24 Clarke's Commentary

 

[Micah888]

It is not the rapture that is a lie, but the pretribulation rapture teaching that is the great lie. Since the strange teaching of Scofield was published about 1905 the great lie has taken hold.

As someone has already said, this is a red herring. Had the Scofield Bible never been published, we would still see from a proper study of Scripture that the Rapture will be pretribulational, just as Enoch was raptured before Flood.

BTW for those not familiar with the 1905 edition of the Scofield Reference Bible, it is an excellent study Bible for conservative Christians. The "new" Scofield should be avoided.

 

[JackRT]

No, I would not call rapture teaching a lie but I think it fair to call it a huge mistake.

 

[Micah888]

How many comings of Christ are we up to now? Three? Four?

There are ONLY TWO comings of Christ to this earth.

The first was in humility and humiliation, the second ""with power and great glory", where the whole world will see Him and His "clouds" of saints and angels, and will weep, mourn, and wail (2 Thess 1:4-10; Rev 1:7).

However for the Rapture the Lord comes MOMENTARILY "in the air" and catches up all His saints. The world will not see this event, and He will NOT return to earth at that time.

 

[Marvin Knox]

In fact, rather than going back and forth, here is the link to Gill's and Clarke's commentaries.
Gill was a Calvinist and Clarke a Methodist.
Then maybe you would want to comment about their views as these are closely inline with mine.
Matthew 24 Gill's Exposition
Matthew 24 Clarke's Commentary

Thank you for the links.
I am familiar with their position.
IMO it does not fly.

If you read Matthew 24 without any preconceived ideas, not accepting what men are saying, you just might see that the great tribulation referred to fell on the Jews at Pentecost when the city was surrounded by the Roman army in 70 AD. It was worse than the Holocaust.

“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory." Matthew 24:29-30
When did this happen?

If, as you say, "you read Matthew 24 without any preconceived ideas, not accepting what men are saying" -- "immediately after the tribulation of those days" does not mean over 2000 years after the tribulation.