Is the rapture a lie?

[Rukado]

The topic is not about dispensationalism , no wonder you are lost

Oh please, dispensationalists are obsessed with the rapture, and the rapture is practically exclusively a dispensationalist doctrine. For pretribbers, the Rapture is about getting rid of Christians so God can focus on "his people", the Jews.

 

[Rukado]

This is exactly what is meant when it is said - you are following men's doctrines , men's teachings - those teachings while they may be somewhat correct they are not totally correct Which is why you see Dozens of different DENOMINATIONAL teachings

Nothing of any you negative minded naysayers have given one iota of fact to prove what you believe nor can you disprove what I said - you cannot even answer the most basic fundamental facts because you simply follow the blind and will fall into a pit
The ONLY reason there are any denominations is because some men chose to view/interpret the view in their church differently and went out and started their own church teaching their own personal view and you all have fallen into the same pit of false teaching
Calling Gods word a lie will bite you in the end

The only reason there are "non-denominational" churches is because some men chose to view/interpret the view in their church differently and went out and started their own church teaching their own personal view and you all have fallen into the same pit of false teaching. These men aren't part of denominations because they hate accountability.

 

[seventysevens]

Oh please, dispensationalists are obsessed with the rapture, and the rapture is practically exclusively a dispensationalist doctrine. For pretribbers, the Rapture is about getting rid of Christians so God can focus on "his people", the Jews.

So what if they are - I am not - I never talk about dispensations - you are lost if you believe that which you have stated - you still have no idea about the truth of it - you have no true knowledge about it

 

[seventysevens]

The only reason there are "non-denominational" churches is because some men chose to view/interpret the view in their church differently and went out and started their own church teaching their own personal view and you all have fallen into the same pit of false teaching. These men aren't part of denominations because they hate accountability.

hahahaha funny

 

[Micah888]

Rapture is just an English translation of Greek word

Correct. The actual Greek word in the text is harpagesometha which means "caught up together".

So one could repeat those three words each time. or simply say "Rapture", or "the translation of the saints".

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5)

You will hear this over and over again: "The Rapture is not found in the Bible". Well that word may not be there but "caught up together" certainly is.

 

[seventysevens]

Correct. The actual Greek word in the text is harpagesometha which means "caught up together".

So one could repeat those three words each time. or simply say "Rapture", or "the translation of the saints".

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5)

You will hear this over and over again: "The Rapture is not found in the Bible". Well that word may not be there but "caught up together" certainly is.

Correct
I Thess 4:17 epeita hemeis oi zontes hoi perileipomenoi hama sun autois harpagesometha [suddenly caught up] en nephelais eis apantesin tou kuriou eis aera kai houtos pantote sun kurio esometha

I Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up [harpagesometha] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

harpazo is more often used as it is easier to pronounce and spell it - being a root word

 

[David Kent]

It is not the rapture that is a lie, but the pretribulation rapture teaching that is the great lie. Since the strange teaching of Scofield was published about 1905 the great lie has taken hold.

"The bigger the lie, the greater acceptance," Adolph Hitler.

 

[Rukado]

Your parenthesis just added to scripture something that is not there.

What I put in brackets (not parentheses) is commentary and context, it's not adding to scripture. I was just holding the hand of the slow-witted to help them understand the passage. Your English teacher should have taught you that the use of brackets in a quote is too signify wording that is not part of the original quote. The person adding to scripture is you, when you add "will not die".

Me: "shall be caught up [but not without first dying]"
You: "shall be caught up, and will not die."

 

[Marvin Knox]

It is not the rapture that is a lie, but the pretribulation rapture teaching that is the great lie. Since the strange teaching of Scofield was published about 1905 the great lie has taken hold.

Ahhh - the old Scofield/Darby red herring.

I thought I smelled something fishy in the wind.

 

[FenderTL5]

How many comings of Christ are we up to now? Three? Four?

 

[Rukado]

How many comings of Christ are we up to now? Three? Four?

Yeah, when first we practice nonsense doctrine, what a tangled web of nonsense we weave.

Pretibber, "Jesus will come like a thief in the night. But, it doesn't count as coming, because Jesus will only come half-way. With the trumpet blast and the shout of an archangel, Jesus will come secretly and quietly." Etc.

 

[Dave G.]

What I put in brackets (not parentheses) is commentary and context, it's not adding to scripture. I was just holding the hand of the slow-witted to help them understand the passage. Your English teacher should have taught you that the use of brackets in a quote is too signify wording that is not part of the original quote. The person adding to scripture is you, when you add "will not die".

Me: "shall be caught up [but not without first dying]"
You: "shall be caught up, and will not die."

You can search but I believe you will never find where I ever said I am going to be in a pre trib rapture. In fact within the forums I have stated I expect to pass before the end comes, to die a conventional natural death. You may find where I have explained the concept of the pre trib rapture but you won't find where I said I will be in it.

 

[seventysevens]

Yeah, when first we practice nonsense doctrine, what a tangled web of nonsense we weave.

Pretibber, "Jesus will come like a thief in the night. But, it doesn't count as coming, because Jesus will only come half-way. With the trumpet blast and the shout of an archangel, Jesus will come secretly and quietly." Etc.

You still have no way to refute it - so you just whine - no it will not be secretly or quietly - again you have no evidence of what you say

 

[David Kent]

Ahhh - the old Scofield/Darby red herring.

I thought I smelled something fishy in the wind.

Not a red herring, absolutely true.

I reiterate from the expert;

"The bigger the lie, the greater acceptance," Adolph Hitler.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I consider it my only hope each day. ....

Dear "Girl," Why do you consider it your only hope? If the Rapture came today, I would tremble before the throne of God, as (even though I have been a monk for 20 years or so,) I am still a sinner, and I must trust n God's Grace completely!

The people that claim that they have assurance that God is going to zap them up before the Tribulation are deluded.

As a post script, I should add that we are, even now, seated by the Throne of God in the Heavenly Banquet.

 

[seventysevens]

Everyone of those who say it isn't true - provide nothing to prove what they say - nothing at all - they are the ones who believe a lie - just as it is said of satan , the biggest lie is to cause people to believe he doesn't exist

 

[Hank77]

Isn’t it possible that the scripture is written to each heart individually? I guess my question is which holds more importance: the scripture or what God tells you in your heart? I would like to believe we all interpret text slightly differently. I’m assuming that the basis/main point is what God would like us to understand. Either way, the importance is that you have repented and have a good relationship with Jesus Christ. If you miss interpreted something it won’t matter that way.

I don't think what a Christian believes about eschatology makes any difference to their salvation today.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Ahhh - the old Scofield/Darby red herring.

Not a red herring, absolutely true.

It is a red herring of the first order.

It may or may not be true that the rapture concept in question was not published until 1905 by Scofield.

But, either way, has absolutely no bearing on the scriptural validity of the interpretation of the passages in question.

Whether the "strange" teaching about the rapture was first published by Saint Augustine in 404, Martin Luther in 1535, Cyrus Scofield in 1905, Adolf Hitler in 1939, Billy Graham in 1985 or Marvin Knox in 2018 has absolutely nothing to do with a discussion of it's biblical merit.

However, the truth is that the concept was in play in the early church - whether or not it was the dominant view at the time or whether it has ever been the dominant view.

If you can't successfully argue against the concept from scripture - so be it. Let others have at it.

But to introduce this ridiculous red herring to cover your inability is just plain disingenuous to say the least.

 

[seventysevens]

What are you talking about? Paul never mentioned that all people at the end times will be raptured. Furthermore if I am fallen for mans deception please state which deception it is. I’m just saying that there is a certain segment of Christians who believe that they will be raptured before tribulation even begins. Unlike the early church which endured great troubles these people believe they won’t suffer any persecution.

You have a most difficult time comprehending what you read
Paul taught it and Jesus spoke of it - but it ONLY read ONLY applies to people who have accepted Jesus as Lord PRIOR TO the GT
the deception you have fallen for is believing what men teach when it opposes what scripture teaches
Everyone has tribulation in life - but that is not what the Great Trib is -as it is the worst testing trial that mankind will ever endure at Jesus command because it is for those who refuse to repentant - but since you refuse to study you have become blind to the truth
If you study the WORD and not simply accept what men are saying you would know what is true - you don't know because you are not studying the WORD of God

 

[Hank77]

Well, sort of. The idea appears to be on the order of perhaps 400 years old, not 200. But, either way, it is a relatively new idea in church history.

From Wikipedia:

The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American PuritansIncrease and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[24][25] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[26] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[27] and John Gill[28] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.

Dr. Samuel Prideaux Tregelles (1813-1875), a prominent English theologian and biblical scholar, wrote a pamphlet in 1866 tracing the concept of the rapture through the works of John Darby back to Edward Irving.[29]

An 1828 edition of Matthew Henry's An Exposition of the Old and New Testament uses the word "rapture" in explicating 1 Thes. 4:17.[30]

Gill and Henry both use the word rapture, why wouldn't they it is in the scripture. However, neither of them spoke of a pre-great tribulation 'catching away'. Indeed they both believed that the Matthew 24 great tribulation scripture was describing the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. They held the historical view. Clarke and others did as well.

1 Thessalonians 4 Gill's Exposition