Intellectual Honesty?

[cvanwey]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

 

[Sanoy]

This section is not for appologetics or debate. It is for seekers wanting to know more about Christianity. Just report your post and ask it to be moved here. Christian Appologetics.

 

[Micah888]

...how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

By honestly accepting the fact that the Bible is the Word of God, and taking every word seriously. That would be intellectual, moral, and spiritual honesty.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

What if someone agrees with the scripture?

 

[GodsGrace101]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

What do you not agree with?
When a man is properly the head of the household, things seem to run smoother.

 

[Halbhh]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

By reading fully through Paul's epistels, so as to learn what's going on and what is intended and why.

For instance, you should learn (in time) how crucial and central the idea in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 is to what Paul writes, such as for instance why slaves were instructed to be cheerful servants even to harsh masters, and why any of us should be willing to give up a perfectly good and innocent freedom (which we rightfully have) and accept a wrong idea for the sake of the "weak". By reading very fully, you begin to understand better, and then you can understand how the short 1 page letter to Philemon is not a 180 opposite turn, but simply the natural progression. The goal is so save people for eternity, even at considerable self sacrifice, not indulge ourselves here and now.

Today, it could be you or me that needs to do that self sacrifice in 1 Cor chapter 8!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When a man is properly the head of the household, things seem to run smoother.

I just had to ask: "seem to" ? !

When the head of a family lives in the way he should , as head of the household as God Says Clearly,
vs
not .
isn't that going to be always better ?

 

[Danielwright2311]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

I dont follow Paul, I follow Jesus only as Jesus never wrote anything, He spoke the words of God and they where recorded.

But Paul is self proclaimed and he is just a man who is a sinner just like me or you.

Anything he wrote is just from his own understanding.

A lot of people hate me for what I say but the truth is we dnt need Paul's writing, we just dont.

The only thing you need is Jesus who died for our sins and is our salvation.

Who do I follow? A man who is a sinner? Or Jesus who is Gods son and perfect and never self proclaimed anything about him self.

But he proclaimed God our father, nothing about him self

He never once gave himself any glory, but only God.

But Paul self proclaimed himself many times.

I dont hate Paul at all, but just dont take any credence in his words.

All you need is Jesus, see? there is no confusion to any one for Jesus.

there is no confusion as God is not the God of confusion.

But there is a lot of real confusion for Paul and his writings just like the one you posted.

 

[Micah888]

But there is a lot of real confusion for Paul and his writings just like the one you posted.

There is absolutely no confusion about Paul's writings:

2 PETER 3
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Danielwright2311]

There is absolutely no confusion about Paul's writings:

2 PETER 3
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Yes, like the one posted in the first post, that's confusing.

Jesus never said woman cant preach. and also he never said once that woman are not equal to men.

 

[JackRT]

I regard the verses in question as reflective of the societal mores of that time and place. When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I just had to ask: "seem to" ? !

When the head of a family lives in the way he should , as head of the household as God Says Clearly,
vs
not .
isn't that going to be always better ?

Yes. But it's not always like that.
Sometimes the man can't handle it, or he doesn't know how, or he's not fair. Then problems begin unless the wife is really smart.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Yes. But it's not always like that.
Sometimes the man can't handle it, or he doesn't know how, or he's not fair. Then problems begin unless the wife is really smart.

Or he is just stupid

did I just say that?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Or he is just stupid

did I just say that?

Oh. I didn't hear anything!

 

[Job3315]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

I had the hardest time years ago with this scripture because I was called to lead and teach at church and was around women who also lead. But then, my father, the most “macho man” I know and who knows the Bible said that the reason Paul said that to that church in particular was because the women from there were a mess, that He doesn’t think he was refering to all women in general.

Also, Lisa Bevere told her husband people were quoting that scripture to her and what was his opinion about it. She said his reply was “Preach woman, preach!”. I’ve always thought that was a great answer.

 

[Danielwright2311]

I had the hardest time years ago with this scripture because I was called to lead an taught at church and was around women who also lead. But then, my father, the most “macho man” I know and who knows the Bible said that the reason Paul said that to that church in particular was because the women from there were a mess, that He doesn’t think he was refering to all women in general.

Also, Lisa Bevere told her husband people were quoting that scripture to her and what was his opinion about it. She said his reply was “Preach woman, preach!”. I’ve always thought that was a great answer.

Preach woman preach

that's funny and made me laugh.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes. But it's not always like that.
Sometimes the man can't handle it, or he doesn't know how, or he's not fair. Then problems begin unless the wife is really smart.

Actually, Yahweh knows perfectly how to accomplish as He Designed,
not dependent on the man's "ability" in the flesh or mind or spirit even,
as Yahshua (Jesus) is the head of the man, and the shepherd, and all in all,
and in accordance with Scripture, accomplishes all that is needed .

Now a good example on your side , so to speak, was Abigail and her husband. She honored him and was a good wife to him, even though he was a despicable husband and horrible man, not of faith. Yahweh divinely spared their lives by Abigail's faithful actions, and without her complaining at all, nor attempting to change him,
Yahweh Himself took him out of the way, so she could honorably be King David's wife as Yahweh Planned.

< runs hand over my hair now , thinking > .... well, how about that ! Yahweh delivered her, after some time, from a husband who like you posted didn't handle his own life nor married life honorably, if he knew how he didn't show it, and he was unrighteous.

Yahweh accomplished what neither the husband nor the wife was able to.

 

[Acts2:38]

If one does not agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.), but claims Christianity, how might one reconcile their faith in an intellectually honesty way?

Thank you in advance for any/all responses.

Paul wrote both Corinthians and Timothy epistles.

If we are going to be looking at 1 Timothy 2 in spot light, we need to take into account all the text that was mentioned in this manner.

Looking at all the text in reference to such a topic, my conclusion by scripture is that Paul is telling Timothy what a women can/ cannot do in the church assembly. Paul is stating that a women cannot lead, disrupt it, or control the assembly.

See 1 Corinthians 14:34 and compare to 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

However, there is no exemption for example on women to sing Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16. Also, it is still acceptable for them to make confession Romans 10:9-10; 1 Timothy 6:12. Also, even though she was with a man, she was still able to teach, but only once they took the man aside privately from an assembling see Acts 18:26.

But when it comes to leading or controlling the assembly, 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

In response to the integrity of those who do not obey scripture, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9. You cannot reconcile with scripture if you choose not obey unless you repent of past transgression and complete 180 away from whatever it is you were doing.

 

[Micah888]

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society.

Is the Bible written from society's perspective or is it the Word of God, applicable at all times, in all societies, and in every situation?

We can either take a humanistic approach and pick and choose what to believe and what to reject, or we can BELIEVE that the wisdom of God has also been applied to the teachings of the New Testament.

God has ordained different roles for men and women in the local church and in the home ever since the Church was established. It is the Christian's duty to faithfully obey God's commands and directives, and not to imagine that he or she is wiser than the Almighty.

 

[cvanwey]

This section is not for appologetics or debate. It is for seekers wanting to know more about Christianity. Just report your post and ask it to be moved here. Christian Appologetics.

Sorry, I tried. But I do not appear to have access to post there :-/