Is There Such a Thing as a Biblical Feminist?

AlexDTX

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I'm a feminist, and I take Scripture very seriously.

To me it means that I believe God created men and women equal, that patriarchy in the family, in society and in the church is a result of the fall, and something which in Christ we should strive to overcome.

It means that women have the gifts of the Spirit, and should be encouraged to discern what God calls them to do in this life, and encouraged, equipped and enabled to do it, just as much as men.

It means working side by side for the kingdom. It is not, therefore, a secular thing at all, for me.
Thank you Paidiske. I think you have a good grasp on what biblical feminism means, and I would love for you to expand further in contrasting what is not biblical feminism with secular feminism.
 
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grasping the after wind

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It is always better not to judge others, but it is also necessary to decide if one is willing to agree with others' ideas. If one disagrees one must say so if one is to be honest with both the other and oneself. If the other takes that as a personal judgement or a personal rejection rather than the rejection of an idea, then so be it as one cannot control how another decides to take things.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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If I may say, I don't see "work by the sweat of the brow" and "pain in childbirth" as punishment. I see it as consequences. ...
but doesn't see God's comment on dominion as consequential :sigh:
re unsubscribe. My advise in the meanwhile = accept people for who they are if you can't accept them for what they are = new creations IN CHRIST. Who can fight against that?
 
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Dave-W

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The purpose of this thread is to out feminists in Christianity.
??????? Really?

Does someone have to wave a laundry list on the floor of the Senate saying they have the names of 100,000 known feminists in church leadership?
 
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AlexDTX

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Yes, patriarchy is a result of the Fall, but it is GOD ORDAINED.
To say "patriarchy is God ordained" needs further clarification, in my opinion. I think it is how fallen man has interpreted the creation order, not that it was God's will. I refer specifically of men lording over women. The creation order of the nuclear family is God ordained, in my opinion, but not necessarily how it has been played out.
 
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Rubiks

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It is only after the fall that men ruled over women. It was never intended to be part of God's original creation

Genesis 3:16 (NRSV)
To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.

We also see a very egalitarian view of women in the authentic letters of Paul. We see women hold very high positions in the church.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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To say "patriarchy is God ordained" needs further clarification, in my opinion. I think it is how fallen man has interpreted the creation order, not that it was God's will.
Who out of the whole population of the world did Yahweh call out to be the "Father of Faith" ?
I refer specifically of men lording over women.
Who in Scripture lorded over others ? (as written in Scripture)
 
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archer75

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I am the OP. I did not define it because of the women in this forum who ID themselves as feminists in another thread. The purpose of this thread is find two definitions: the secular political definition versus the biblical definition.
Sorry - the definitions of what? Is there a Biblical definition of feminism?
 
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Dave-W

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To say "patriarchy is God ordained" needs further clarification,
If there is such a thing as "God ordained patriarchy," I suspect it is the exact OPPOSITE of the "male privilege" model everyone thinks of. If anything, it has all the negative consequences and none of the "male privilege benefits."

It means if your wife messes up, (even if you do not know it) YOU are called on the carpet for it.

Gen 18:9 Then they said to him, “Where is Sarah your wife?” And he said, “There, in the tent.” 10 He said, “I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife will have a son.” And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him. 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing. 12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, “After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?” 13 And the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?’ 14 Is anything too difficult for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”​

Abe could not even have been aware of her laughing, but he was held responsible, not her. If there is such a thing as patriarchy, THAT is what it looks like.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It is only after the fall that men ruled over women. It was never intended to be part of God's original creation

Genesis 3:16 (NRSV)
To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.
Do you understand the difference in what Scripture says as you quote here,
and what "lording it over" (also written in Scripture elsewhere as not to do) means.

It really is simple, and when everyone accepts, believes and lives according to Yahweh's Word they can be echad (one) with Yahweh and with Yahshua, the same as Yahweh ad Yahshua have always been echad (one).
 
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archer75

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To say "patriarchy is God ordained" needs further clarification, in my opinion. I think it is how fallen man has interpreted the creation order, not that it was God's will. I refer specifically of men lording over women. The creation order of the nuclear family is God ordained, in my opinion, but not necessarily how it has been played out.
So what if grandparents live with the "nuclear" family? Who's the master then?
 
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Halbhh

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It is always better not to judge others, but it is also necessary to decide if one is willing to agree with others' ideas. If one disagrees one must say so if one is to be honest with both the other and oneself. If the other takes that as a personal judgement or a personal rejection rather than the rejection of an idea, then so be it as one cannot control how another decides to take things.

It is interesting that verse from Rom ch 14, to see the issues of the day they would think to contend about. Since already a word like "feminist" will mean 20 different things to as many people -- very different meanings and assumptions -- it does remind me of the varying views believers had on such things as foods, the sabbath, and on and on, and how Paul did have a very great amount to say in several epistles on how believers should respond to this general situation. But at the moment I'm drawn more to the big picture -- after key chapters like 1 Cor ch 8, we see the culmination of how to relate in the wonderful chapters 12 and 13. It's such a powerful solution -- we are to love one another, spread the good news, the Words of Christ, and trust Christ to save, and pray, and continue to love. We are growing together. As they are growing, I'm also seeking to grow.
 
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Dave-W

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It is only after the fall that men ruled over women. It was never intended to be part of God's original creation
Eve was tricked into eating.
Adam freely chose to eat. His sin was much worse than hers. So he got the greater punishment.

As I said before; IF there is such a thing as "God ordained patriarchy," it is a curse, not a blessing.
 
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Dave-W

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So what if grandparents live with the "nuclear" family? Who's the master then?
If you believe Bill Gothard, then the 70 year old son or daughter who lives with their 90 year old parents had better be in obedience and complete subjection as if they were only 5 years old.

I rejected Gothardism a long time ago.
 
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AlexDTX

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Perhaps Deborah, judge of Israel, could be considered a feminist.
Thank you, that is a good example. But I don't think she was by choice. Judges 4:6 state that the Lord wanted Barak to kill Sisera to deliver Israel, but he delayed until Deborah agreed to go with him.

But on the positive side I think she became Judge not because she sought it, but since she was a prophetess (vs. 4) the people recognized it and come to her for judgment (v. 5).

My point, though, is God wanted Barak to step up but he did not so He used Deborah instead to fulfill his will.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Nor do I understand spiritual salvation for women being dependent on childbearing.
I had to go search for a good example of this/ meaning of Scripture that seems 'difficult' to many without good resolution.
This is what I found (and it is WONDERFUL! )
===============
"
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.--The last words are more accurately and forcibly rendered--through the childbearing. With that tender and winning courtesy to which, no doubt, humanly speaking, the great missionary owes so much of his vast influence over human hearts, St. Paul, now anxious lest he had wounded with his severe words and stern precepts his Ephesian sisters in Christ, closes his charge to women with a few touching words, bright with the glorious promise they contained. Though their life duties must be different from those of men--yet for them, too, as for men, there was one glorious goal; but for them--the women of Christ--the only road to the goal was the faithful, true carrying out of the quiet home duties he had just sketched out for them. In other words, women will win the great salvation; but if they would win it, they must fulfil their destiny; they must acquiesce in all the conditions of a woman's life--in the forefront of which St. Paul places the all-important functions and duties of a mother.
This is apparently the obvious meaning of the Apostle's words--all this lies on the surface--but beneath all this the reverent reader can hardly fail to see another and deeper reference (the presence of the article, "through the childbearing," gives us the clue)--"she shall be saved by THE childbearing" (the Incarnation) by the relation in which woman stood to the Messiah, in consequence of the primal prophecy that her seed (not man's) should bruise the serpent's head (Genesis 3:15), the peculiar function of her sex, from its relation to her Saviour, "shall be the medium of her salvation." ...

If they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.--But let no one think that the true saintly woman, painted with such matchless skill by St. Paul, satisfies the conditions of her life by merely fulfilling the duties of a mother.

She must besides, if she would win her crown, hold fast to the Master's well-known teaching, which enjoins on all His own disciples, men as well as women, faith and love, holiness and modesty. The last word, "modesty," or discretion, or sobriety (all poor renderings of the Greek sophrosune, which includes, besides, the idea of a fight with and a victory over self), brings back the thoughts to the beautiful Pauline conception of a true woman, who wins her sweet and weighty power in the world by self-effacement."
 
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GTW27

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I'd say that the very fact that there is an old covenant and a new covenant shows that some teachings in Scripture are limited by culture and time.

The Holy Spirit is not limited by culture and time. For The Lord is The Author of time. This is why Paul thought The Lord's return was imminent. Much time and many cultures have passed, but yet The Lord's Words will remain the same. For The Word of The Lord endures forever.
 
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SkyWriting

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However, also according to Scripture, men and women have different and distinct roles within the home and within the local church.

Some letters do mention local customs that are different from today.
But we've changed and women can even talk in church now.
And they don't have to wear skirts.
 
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